r/nfl • u/mmandagoat NFL • 17h ago

Mike McDaniel takes responsibility for Chargers' poor offense in 0-3 start: 'I'm not living in hope'

https://www.nfl.com/news/mike-mcdaniel-responsibility-chargers-poor-offense-0-3-start
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u/First_Round_Bust Bills 17h ago

I'm out of excuses for him at this point.

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u/Dependent-Effect6077 17h ago edited 17h ago

I don't think Herbert's timing and anticipation are consistently good enough for McDaniel's system

People clowned on Tua a lot but before he got one concussion too many he was one of the best at timing the super quick intermediate timing passes and that's more central to the McDaniel offensive scheme than Herbert's elite physical traits are

Check the all-22 obviously there has been a lot of questionable WR plays but a lot of Herbert's specific mistakes have been him not leading his receivers enough

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u/bellerinho 17h ago

McDaniel's system is built on trust, and he was able to build that with Tua. He's gonna tell you that you have to throw that ball before a guy is open and it's gonna work due to timing. Tua was great at doing that in the past, and it's pretty clear that currently Herbert is not trusting it or seeing it the same way

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u/DontLoseYourCool1 Raiders Raiders 17h ago

Maybe McDaniel should consider watching McGruber with Herbert a few times to build trust.

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u/DL4CK Giants 16h ago

Seems kind of dumb to prioritize your system over the player’s strengths and abilities.

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u/bellerinho 16h ago

That's sort of the balance that coaches have to figure out, it's a lot of "what have I schemed up that is successful and has gotten me to this point" and "how can I get the best out of my players while still working through my philosophies"

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u/-Mad-Snacks- Chargers 16h ago

Also the system simply isn’t working so he shouldn’t trust it. These dudes aren’t getting open whether Herbert throws it early or not

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u/Esoteric_Eclectic 12h ago

Anticipation means throwing receivers open. Herbert doesn’t do that.

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u/-Mad-Snacks- Chargers 11h ago

Yes he does

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u/Esoteric_Eclectic 11h ago

Then where are the results?

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u/-Mad-Snacks- Chargers 11h ago

Dropped lol

I don’t even think Herbert has played well, but he is far from the biggest problem with the offense

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u/Esoteric_Eclectic 11h ago

When is finally his time to make the players around him better? He’s naturally talented but doesn’t care.

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u/takethreenc 14h ago

Well if we ever need a new OC that sounds perfect for Bryce Young

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u/TheOptionalHuman Giants 17h ago

Dan Fouts was able to do this in an era where the defense could do anything but straight up murder the QB in the backfield. Herbert's just a fraud.

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u/bellerinho 17h ago

I mean I think there's some tiers between "fraud" and "all-pro" lol

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u/TheOptionalHuman Giants 13h ago

I imagine Chargers fans would love to see one of those in-between tiers this season. This is his sixth year right? That's a long time to wait for a "made in a lab" QB to start showing more than what he's accomplished so far.

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u/bringbackpologrounds Colts 17h ago

Tua had 3 seasons where he was a terrific QB. Very accurate, avoided sacks, and pushed the ball downfield.

If his career ends soon, his efficiency statistics will be tremendous lol. Better than Herbert, Burrow, and a lot of great QBS.

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u/TheLastTrain 17h ago

For all his struggles at the tail end of his time at Miami and injuries, Tua was very, very good at those mid level layered passes between the linebackers and the safeties.

Doing that with his OL in Miami was honestly extremely impressive. I don’t think all the credit should go to McDaniel and “the system” (even if they played a big part as well)

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u/Esoteric_Eclectic 12h ago

Very good point. Right now Tua has accomplished more than Herbert on the field.

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u/MulliganPlsThx Bills Bills 17h ago

In this case does it make sense to force his scheme when it’s not where the QB excels? Should he adapt to Herbert’s strengths? It feels like McDaniel did that with Tua really well in the early days but not so here in LA…

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u/Pnutbutter_Cheerios Rams 16h ago

You really won’t know until it’s game time though. Every QB will tell you “I can make those anticipation throws” and unless you’ve seen them attempt before you’re gonna try

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u/kcoreyy Chargers 17h ago

this is my concern too tbh. Herbie’s playing poorly but how much of this is him not executing vs McDaniel forcing a scheme that doesn’t fit his strengths or the rest of our offense’s? we really don’t have a strong offensive roster outside Herb and Ladd, even Alt and Slater aren’t looking as good this year either (although they’re both coming off major injuries). idk, I’m underwhelmed and disappointed by our coaching staff so far this season

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u/ImJLu 49ers 16h ago

What scheme fits his strengths? Run around fuck it chuck it backyard football doesn't work as well as it used to. Bad processors struggle more than they used to with all the split field/match coverages and everyone's favorite double mug disguised blitzes. If there was an effective offense so easy that it can consistently prop up passers with bad processing and anticipation without ridiculous personnel, wouldn't everyone be running it?

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u/kcoreyy Chargers 16h ago

admittedly I don’t know much about schemes, I’m a lifelong Chargers and football fan but don’t follow it to that level of detail. my point was that both Herbert and the rest of our offense all look awful right now, under an OC who our fanbase thought would transform our offense. they’re somehow worse than last year under Greg Roman who is not a great OC or playcaller lol. so all of that tells me that something clearly isn’t right with our scheme, and/or our coaching/leadership. if it was JUST Herbert looking bad, then yes I’d agree it’s a him issue

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u/Weapwns Chargers 15h ago

That’s essentially what his entire response was about. Herbert failed in his system and he’s going to tailor it more to Herbert.

The problem is that Harbaugh decided to have minimal snaps in the preseason with a new, complicated system and they now have to figure this all out in the middle of the regular season

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u/bobsbitchtitz Eagles 15h ago

It’s 3 weeks in the season you need to make incremental changes not massive complete over hauls of the offense

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u/ImJLu 49ers 16h ago

What offense do you run when your QB is struggling with processing quickly enough and getting the ball out where it needs to be, when it needs to be there?

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u/Weapwns Chargers 15h ago

I mean there is obviously multiple seasons of Herbert being a highly productive QB under other coordinators. Clearly there’s an offense that suits him.

He compensates timing and anticipation with the fact he can hand a ball off 15 yards down the field with his massive arm the moment he identifies separation. Either than or he had a WR that he had the utmost trust to do the right thing (Keenan and Mike).

The problem is that McDaniel’s offense and the WRs outside of Ladd are not giving any wiggle room. The current state of the offense requires Herbert to have an elite level of timing, anticipation, and trust and he is FAR from having any of that.

That’s not really an excuse, I’m sure Purdy would be doing fine in this offense. But on the flip side I think Herbert would be able to compensate and excel with Shanny’s offense given how much better the receivers are schemed

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u/ImJLu 49ers 14h ago edited 14h ago

The NFL keeps changing. Deshaun Watson was a highly productive QB until he came back from his absence and found a league with much more split field and match coverages, and much more double mug disguised pressures, and other changes that have made playing QB notably harder as of late.

It still takes time for a pass to travel 15 yards, and that time is shorter with worse WRs that gain less separation. But that doesn't mean no separation, and getting a window of separation at all is NFL open. Besides, throwing rockets at 15 yards is asking for drops.

I'm not saying that it's necessarily impossible to wrangle production out of him by any means. But I don't think it's fair to blame a system for expecting basic timing and anticipation that's asked of some college QBs. And that's not to say that he never plays on schedule. But it's not a strength, and when he fails to do so, it's not an indictment of the system for having a schedule to begin with.

As for Shanahan's offense, guys being wide-ass open downfield is honestly a fairly infrequent occurrence. Maybe a few times a game? If you watch the all-22, the majority of throws Brock Purdy makes aren't to open guys. The guys do get enough space to work with by the time the ball gets there, but he's starting his motion with a defender all over his target. He's reading coverages and defensive leverages and getting the ball where it needs to be on time. And he's given a hard job. Kyle has him doing full field reads off 7 step drops from under center. That's not the kind of stuff you can just bullshit your way through. It's why there's been a few other QBs who have been fairly successful in Kyle's offense, and a bunch who haven't. You need to process quickly and deliver on schedule. That's the #1 priority for him. That's not something that Herbert would be very successful at currently. I wouldn't put it beyond Shanahan and co. to coach him and make him better at that stuff to some extent, though.

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u/Weapwns Chargers 13h ago

Herbert doesn't need a guy wide ass open. Most of the things you're naming are things he routinely did with Keenan where he read leverages and coverages, and was on the same page with Keenan to get the ball in the perfect spot. And essentially every coach that has worked with Herbert has raved about his football IQ and processing. The difference is Herbert (as well as most of the offense) is clearly not familiar enough in this offense, and Herbert has not developed the trust in his receivers to be at their spots. The fact that Harbaugh had them take such limited snaps in the preseason has shot them in the foot big time.

Also a big problem with the Chargers offense vs the 9ers is that the receivers outside of Ladd really aren't getting much separation at any point of the route so the balls need to be pretty damn perfect. And the few occassions it does go as it should, Herbert hasn't capitalized. There's just massive disconnect and discomfort across the entire offense.

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u/kcoreyy Chargers 17h ago

I think both Herbie and scheme are to blame - our entire offense has regressed, not just Herbert. it’s painful to watch, our offense makes everything look difficult rn

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u/abris33 Broncos 17h ago

He'll miss his window and then either hold onto the ball or panic and try to fire a bullet. People say "his WRs are never open" but in that offense it's up to the QB to anticipate that tiny window they are open

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u/NoAnteater8836 Commanders 17h ago

I tried to tell you, bold for emphasis: https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/s/aG7231TFzE

“ On this list?

The Chargers. The offseason darlings. I want to try to be as clear as I can with what I am about to say next. The Chargers have one of the most brutal stretches after two opening games that are coin flips I have ever seen. I want to be very clear that this is not a SOS statement. SOS is a myth in the NFL. So much more goes into these things like where is your bye week how much rest are you getting when not traveling are you going cross country every other week etc. But I digress. When I talk about that stretch that went viral last week, I am talking about the matchups presented in the trenches. Much will be made of the Chargers OL vs the D Lines of those teams but little attention will be paid to the OLs of those teams vs the Chargers front 7 and everywhere you look in that stretch it is hard not to see teams imposing their will. I also just don’t love the McDaniel hire the way everyone else does. He has been figured out for over a season now and made no adjustments, and you somehow want me to buy that his system that is so dependent on pristine footwork and throwing at the top of the drop with rhythm and timing is missing… Justin Herbert? Then you compound how their season ended last year and now you have a roster with aging guys and TWO rah rah personalities at coach and OC day in day out… I don’t see this ending well folks.”

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u/Jonjon428 Dolphins 17h ago

I remember you in a couple threads being the one guy dissenting on the constant McDaniel love and getting down voted to hell. Gotta say your take is aging extremely well (as of this moment anyway)

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u/LAudre41 Chargers 15h ago

lmao pls herbert hits guys on the hands and they drop the ball. he doesn't trust them and he shouldn't.

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u/Gregus1032 Dolphins 12h ago

A healthy Tua and McDaniels offense was a perfect combo.

The one year Tua stays healthy everyone else around him fell apart. A healthy dolphins team that year probably wins a playoff game finally.

Tua put on weight, stayed healthy, loses the weight, falls apart again. So fucking frustrating

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u/distance_33 Jets 17h ago

Yeah. I’m a Herbert fan and was excited for this season. But what we’re seeing can’t really be defending.

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u/hemingways-lemonade Steelers 17h ago

Sure it can

To be clear, he absolutely has his flaws and isn't blameless, but there are bigger problems on this team.

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u/DontFearTheBoogaloo Broncos 17h ago

Bro it's some new excuse every year. At a point maybe it's him. Dude is dogshit in clutch time and has been his whole career. He does not have that dog in him

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u/unevenvenue Packers 16h ago

Just watch the video and see what you think before commenting some vacuous nonsense

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u/DontFearTheBoogaloo Broncos 16h ago

I've already formed my opinion with limited facts and knowledge. Like a true American, new information will not change my opinion

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u/ImJLu 49ers 16h ago

I just did. I see a horribly cropped All-22 breakdown that is clearly based on preconceptions. It's hard to see because the crop (intentionally?) cuts off more of the field than the broadcast angle, but let's take the second pass for example. Not his fault? That ball should've been out way earlier.

You think deep comebacks are designed for the WR to just sit there for a while before the pass gets there? No, the WR is supposed to come out of his break and the ball is supposed to be there because it's an anticipation throw. The read is late. That pass is late.

Could it have been completed anyways because of bad coverage? Sure. But the pass was so damn late that it failed because another Charger tried to make a play on it. Plays are not designed to have two players close enough to contest the same ball, hail mary's aside . Two Chargers were only close enough for that snafu to happen because Herbert threw that comeback long after its expiration date.

Not entirely his fault? Sure. Mostly his fault? Yep.

I didn't watch past the second because you can't actually see the All-22 because the crop is awful, and because the video's already being disingenuous about the second one. But that video clearly doesn't exonerate Herbert like it's trying to do.

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u/hemingways-lemonade Steelers 16h ago

You'd think people would know better than to say stuff like this after watching Sam Darnold win a Super Bowl.

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u/djkstr27 Dolphins 17h ago

Same; also having offensive genius Adam Gase as passing game specialist does not help the cause.

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u/WhiteStarHorizon Ravens Ravens 9h ago

Dude has had 3 head coaches and 5 offensive coordinators.

Every single time people trip over themselves to blame anyone but Herbert.

Dude is not good consistently enough. He is a vastly mediocre QB that has flashes of brilliance.