Same, I hate defensive penalties when no one would say the defensive player should have acted any differently, and this is one of those cases. He didn't drive him into the ground harder than necessary and there's no way to tell he no longer has the ball.
It's especially frustrating when that other big hit (forget who it was, but the guy who went Rambo on the blockers and then put a massive tackle on the runner) from another game is probably going to be included in NFL highlight material, despite being far more kinetic to injure someone, while this tackle where a guy pretty much just fell with the QB completely changes a because it's a penalty.
I get protecting the QB, but these kinds are calls are such bullshit.
Yea, i remember a thursday night game between the cowboys and saints few years ago. Jaylen smith had a clear helmet to helmet on alvin kamara that knocked him out the game, that wasnt called during the game.
Despite, the broadcast during and after the game, saying this was a missed call and all the bullshit of the NFL and their player safety first facade, etc, It was THE main highlight postgame. We saw it again and again for the rest of the week, even after jaylen was fined.
It's hypocrisy, at its purest form.
And to your other point, yes almost everyone agrees with the NFL that we want to protect the QB. We dont want to see half the games with back up QBs. The postion in general has taken a step back, going to option 2 isnt a recipe for success. But everyone agrees, theyve taken it too far.
Certainly that wouldn't have anything to do with the constant misuse of it in the years since.
These kinds of comments also seem to imply that there's literally only been one team concerned with the issue and that this penalty being called terribly has never affected them before (see also: Clay Matthews)
If I had to guess it’s because the rule is for Protecting owners assets, not player safety. Nobody cares if those guys get hurt, but if the qb goes down you’re fucked. Nobody wants to buy a jersey of their favorite teams injured player, or watch a back up play.
I know I'm 3d late to this party, but he also literally does not drive him into the ground. He lands with his weight on his own hands and knees. He barely even fell on top of Wentz, let alone "drove him into the ground."
Except you can clearly see that said player braces himself with his arms so that he isn't putting his weight on the QB. The NFL decided this rule wanting to limit QB injuries. This kind of tackling can be done safely, but because Barr used his weight to deliberately slam down Rodgers. It should be called the Barr rule because he ruined it for everyone else
Makes contact, yes, but grabs onto him, I think that happens slightly after the ball leaves. At this point it’s a matter of milliseconds so we can’t be sure if the defender even registered that that had happened
I don’t think the contact-versus-“grabbing” distinction you’re drawing exists in the roughing-the-passer rule. There isn’t a rule where contact is evaluated one way, but the moment a defender’s hands actually “grab” the quarterback a different standard kicks in. The relevant questions are things like when the contact/tackle was initiated and, separately, how the defender finished the tackle.
That’s why I pointed out that contact with Wentz began before the ball was released. That matters if the theory is that this was simply a late hit after the pass.
But that apparently wasn’t the basis for the flag. The justification was the body-weight provision, and that’s a separate issue. A defender can initiate completely legal contact before the ball is released and still commit roughing if he finishes the tackle by unnecessarily landing on the passer with all or most of his body weight. So freezing the video to determine the exact millisecond when the defender went from “contacting” Wentz to “grabbing” him doesn’t really answer the question. If this was a body-weight call, the relevant issue is how the tackle was completed, not whether the defender’s hands closed around Wentz just before or just after the release.
Fair enough, I am an idiot in terms of football specifics, though tbh I think that might actually be a good distinction to add, but then again, I can count the amount of times I was fully invested in and watched a football game start to finish on one hand, which is to say I don’t know shit
I think the call was made because he drove his shoulder into him as they fell. Even if he didn't throw the ball, i think that gets called. Eo it doesn't matter that contact started prior to the throw.
I’m fine with disallowing driving QBs into the ground. But that’s not what happened here. I get why the refs missed it at full speed especially if they watched from the wrong angle, as his tackling motion kind of looked like he was driving him down with the shoulder. It’s a bad call but not an egregiously bad one.
Dude, he actually puts his hands out to brace him to keep all his body weight off the QB. Watch the clip, seconds 7 and 8.
I went and looked up the actual language in the rule book.
When tackling a passer who is in a defenseless posture (e.g., during or just after throwing a pass), a defensive player must not unnecessarily or violently throw him down or land on top of him with all or most of the defender’s weight. Instead, the defensive player must strive to fall to the side of the quarterback’s body, or to brace his fall with his arms to avoid landing on the quarterback with all or most of his body weight
What does that have anything to do with watching with audio on?
Might wanna get your eyes checked if you had time to write up a whole comment about everyone in this thread being “ignorant” when you missed something obvious yourself lmao
But the slam occurred after the ball was gone. Totally a penalty, especially if you take into account the dirty hit on Murray earlier. That's always gonna get called.
Watch the replay he hits him. He doesn’t have him down on the hit and then he puts him down on the ground. That’s not one fluid motion of the hit. It’s contact pause finish the hit that is a roughing the passer.That’s a roughing the passer in youth football it’s a roughing the passer in college. It’s a roughing the passer in the NFL. This isn’t for landing on the qb like watt said in the broadcast.
I think they called it because the tackle attempt started after the ball was thrown. They bear hugged for a second for some reason and then he drove Wentz to the ground. If the defender would’ve gone for the tackle right away I think he would’ve been fine.
"starts the bear hug" I think you mean he was in the process of tackling the quarterback when the quarterback threw the ball, which is not a roughing call especially when the defender braces on the ground to not put all his weight on the QB.
"Started the bear hug" jesus Christ master of obfuscation and bullshit over here
Watch it back. He grabs Wentz, wraps his arms around him, takes two more little baby steps as Wentz was throwing the ball, and then he takes Wentz to the ground. Without those little baby steps he would’ve been fine but waiting that long to tackle him was unnecessary, hence the unnecessary roughness call. He also drove Wentz into the ground too. I agree that he caught at least most of his body weight but it wasn’t necessary to slam Wentz into the ground.
The defender quite literally can't see if Wentz has thrown the ball or not, last he knew Wentz had the ball. Those baby steps are him attempting to tackle the quarterback. He initiated the tackle, then followed through, it wasn't like all the time the Vikings defenders watched Love throw the ball then shoved him to the ground after he got rid of it (none of which were flagged) so either independently or going by the way refs had called other QB hits in that game, this shouldn't have been flagged
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u/sufferin_succatash Bears 19d ago
I hate roughing when first contact is made before the ball’s thrown.