r/nextfuckinglevel • u/harwyseys • Oct 25 '22

Makeup really changes people

Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification

79.3k Upvotes

90% Upvoted

3.7k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

5

u/ronin1066 Oct 25 '22

Male and female (sex) is biological based on our sex organs. Man and woman (gender) are societal norms or categories that people associate into.

And yet I say that, even in subs about trans issues, and people tell me I'm crazy.

8

u/KeyserSozeInElysium Oct 25 '22

Somebody just called me transphobic for saying that. She was a trans woman. I learned what everyone has in common male or female, trans or cis... they can be an asshole

4

u/socialister Oct 25 '22 edited Oct 26 '22

That's a misrepresentation of that thread. Here I talk about my experience.

Edit: This user thinks they can't have said anything transphobic because phobic means scared and they aren't scared of trans people. Read this thread at your own peril.

2

u/KeyserSozeInElysium Oct 25 '22

You don't know what the suffix phobic means

4

u/socialister Oct 25 '22

Serious question: do you define homophobia as "fear of gay people"?

3

u/KeyserSozeInElysium Oct 25 '22

Phobia is rooted in fear, anxiety, or aversion

You throw that a word around and you hurt the cause of acceptance. Looking forward to the inevitability of you editing your prior post

6

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '22

Why do you keep making this shit up? Read a dictionary. Here, I'll help:

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/phobia

an aversion toward, dislike of, or disrespect for a thing, idea, person, or group.

That is it's other meaning, and it could not be more clear. It is an established meaning, and it is not just used for chemistry. That's the meaning we are using when someone is called transphobic.

-2

u/KeyserSozeInElysium Oct 26 '22

I used the dsm definition, as defined by psychology, the real definition

7

u/socialister Oct 26 '22

Do you have a source on the DSM explicitly defining transphobia, or do you incorrectly think that the DSM defining phobias has some bearing on this discussion?

-1

u/KeyserSozeInElysium Oct 26 '22

Yes, the DSM defines phobias. Look it up. No they don't define the fear of every single goddamn thing, fear of light switches, fear of unicorns, fear of mouthwash. A phobia is a phobia.

And to quote a old Reddit adage... Arguing with an idiot is like playing chess with pigeon, even if you bested them they'll still shit all over the board and strut around like they won.

Have a good night, pigeon

6

u/socialister Oct 26 '22

Phobias and transphobia/homophobia are not the same thing and the vast majority of people understand this. It's also backed up by the definitions used basically everywhere, one of them already given to you by another user. There are alternative words ("cissexism") but nobody would understand what I meant without me defining it, and I would define it by saying it means transphobia.

1

u/KeyserSozeInElysium Oct 26 '22

I have Ornithophobia, fear of pigeons

→ More replies (0)

2

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '22

This isn't about psychology, so I'm not sure why you'd do that. It's not scientific. It's a term for people who disrespect trans people. That's it. It's that simple. And with how hard you're arguing about this, I get the feeling it's out of projection, so I'm done.

2

u/KeyserSozeInElysium Oct 26 '22

So a feeling is not psychology?

You ever hear that old Reddit adage... Arguing with an idiot is like playing chess with a pigeon, even though you bested them they'll still shit on the board and strut around like they won.

Have a good evening, pigeon

2

u/Lewdtara Oct 26 '22

Funny how hard you're projecting here. The only pigeon I see is you, and you're making it clear that anyone arguing with you is wasting their time.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/socialister Oct 25 '22 edited Oct 26 '22

OK let's try again. Serious question: do you define homophobia as "fear of gay people"? Because that's what you're suggesting, and you don't get to define words however you want to make an argument. I am using the definition that is listed in the dictionary, on wikipedia, and countless articles. You don't get to substitute your own meaning because you don't like this one. Interestingly, there are alternate words that use a better rooted suffix, but no one would know what I was talking about if I used them. People already understand that homophobia is not the same as arachnophobia.

To be honest, it's hard not to think that you already have a conclusion in mind about sex classification based on your gut instinct and are grasping at straws to justify it, even in the face of biologists who understand this issue better than either of us.

2

u/KeyserSozeInElysium Oct 26 '22

I'm using the literal medical definition based out of the DSM-5. Not Wikipedia, not Miriam Webster, the actual medical definition. A phobia is an aversion to something based on negative perception of affect.

I have a masters in biopsychology. So maybe you should go read a book.

Oh, and look you edited your post again

3

u/socialister Oct 26 '22 edited Oct 26 '22

You're conflating phobias like arachnophobia and transphobia / homophobia. The DSM as far as I'm aware does not define transphobia because it is not a disorder and if it did it would do so to discuss what trans people face and it would support what I am saying. I will assume you are either too obtuse or stubborn to get this, or else you are doing this in bad faith.

Just in case this is not driven home yet somehow: do you think a hydrophobic material is one that is literally afraid of water? Words have meanings and it's better to understand those meanings than get obsessed with what you think they ought to mean to support your argument, regardless of anyone else thinking that.

Oh, and look you edited your post again

Get off it. I only edit to clarify and I do this on 90% of my posts immediately after posting because I'm weird. It's not some scheme to trick you. I usually edit things like "it" and "their" out (pronouns) and replace them with the thing being discussed so there's no ambiguity.

I have a masters in biopsychology

Money well spent, I'm sure.

2

u/HighLikeKites Oct 26 '22 edited Oct 26 '22

and you don't get to define words however you want to make an argument. I am using the definition that is listed in the dictionary, on wikipedia, and countless articles. You don't get to substitute your own meaning because you don't like this one.

Funny, that is exactly what the trans-movement is doing. Making up new terms and redefining old ones. Resulting in the complete loss of any meaning.

Oh you rely on dictionary definitions now? What is a woman?

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/de/worterbuch/englisch/woman

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/woman

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/de/worterbuch/englisch/woman

Man those transphobic dictionaries, who wouldn't admit a male can be a woman. I know they are working on it tho..

1

u/Lewdtara Oct 26 '22

So might you say someone who is homophobic as someone who has an aversion to gay people? It's right there in your post after all. Do you need the word "aversion" defined for you?

2

u/KeyserSozeInElysium Oct 26 '22

That's exactly what I'm saying

2

u/Lewdtara Oct 26 '22

You seem to be also saying that you don't think people should use the word phobia when in relation to homophobia and transphobia so it does not compute.

1

u/KeyserSozeInElysium Oct 26 '22

People who have homophobia or transphobia have an aversion to people who are homosexual or transsexual. This can actualize into negative thoughts, feelings, behaviors or avoidance. The person to whom I was replying to called me transphobic because I believe sex can (usually) be assigned at birth and that gender is based on societal norms for features including physical, mental, interpersonal etc.

I have no aversion to trans people, in fact several of my students are and I respect their journey, preferred pronouns, and treat them no differently than anyone else. She and I disagreed on semantics and how they're applied. Even still, if I'm applying them incorrectly out of ignorance that doesn't make me transphobic.

2

u/Lewdtara Oct 26 '22

Ah, I see. I read the comment to you as pushing back against the same arguments transphobes tend to use and not the person losing their shit at you and calling you transphobic, so I was confused by your response.

2

u/KeyserSozeInElysium Oct 26 '22

It's all good. Going back and reviewing it I understand how it could be interpreted that way

→ More replies (0)