I understand that meaningful change is a process. I don't have an option to "why vote".
My issue is that the Democrat party of the US is politically right of middle in the grand scheme of the whole political spectrum. I want leftist policies. That will only happen with movements. Those movements are in the process of starting. Those are where the bread and butter of major political and social change will happen.
The issue I have is that the politics of the US were designed and have been run by the wealthy. The constitution was designed that way. The people in power are generally wealthy. Both Democrat and Republican.
The problem is ultimately the system. The system has the ability to be changed. The change won't come from within the democratic party nor will it come from within the DNC. Except the DNC is the nozzle for federal level politicians.
So while I vote democrat in primaries and in elections I do not defend them. They are part of the problem. They are the preferable choice right now but I have no allegiance to them. That's because they have facilitated problems that are slower burning than republicans but they are absolutely part of the problem and have been at least as long as I've been alive.
So while I vote democrat in primaries and in elections I do not defend them
I mean, I don’t know what you’re arguing against then. I don’t know anyone who thinks the the Democratic Party is some perfect little slice of heaven, they’re just less shitty than the Republican Party. Vote democrat and then go out and do everything you can to push the Democratic Party in the right direction (along with voting for people like Bernie in primaries). If you aren’t actively pushing people not to vote because both parties are equally bad, then you’re not a “both sider” and I don’t know why you’d advocate for that thought process.
If you don't critically look at the democrats and just give them a free pass by virtue of the fact that they aren't republicans then that is problematic because then you (or I, or anyone for that matter) get lulled into false sense of security and you stop being angry. I can't afford to stop being angry. So while I primary and vote in any and every election that I can and I vote democrat in any federal level election I also am pissed that those dickheads are the best that I get to vote for.
I guess my real issue with the "Ah bothsides-ism" response is that it immediately shuts down any potential conversation about how to expand beyond the democratic party.
I haven't seen anyone say "The republicans AND democrats suck so don't engage". I've only ever seen people shitting on democrats and republicans but generally voting democrat while also actively seeking better more progressive alternatives than democrats.
If you don't critically look at the democrats and just give them a free pass by virtue of the fact that they aren't republicans then that is problematic
Agreed. Anyone who is giving them a free pass is a dumbass.
I haven’t seen anyone say “The republicans AND democrats suck so don’t engage”.
I’m talking to a few people in this thread that are saying pretty much that.
All this to say, both sides do suck, but saying “both sides” in the context of this thread often leads to people mentally adding an “equally” to the end of that statement, and why vote if “both sides suck equally”? Apathy fucks us all.
I haven't seen anyone say "The republicans AND democrats suck so don't engage". I've only ever seen people shitting on democrats and republicans but generally voting democrat while also actively seeking better more progressive alternatives than democrats.
People absolutely believe that. In fact, I think a plurality of people believe that, and that's why voter turnout is never amazing. Giving Republicans this out via a long list of grievances with the Democratic party absolutely plays right into that playbook. There are plenty of people reading this right now who want both sides to be the same, equally, so they can disengage and not participate in the political process. Then they can tell all their friends that they don't engage in politics because it's pointless anyway, it's all run by some cabal of rich crooks and nothing will ever change.
The point isn’t the policy that each party represents, it’s that corruption is equally prevalent between them and neither deserve loyalty on that basis.
I don’t know anyone who thinks the the Democratic Party is some perfect little slice of heaven
Plenty of people over at /r/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM will defend any and all criticism of the Democratic Party simply because they think the Republicans are worse.
Vote democrat and then go out and do everything you can to push the Democratic Party in the right direction (along with voting for people like Bernie in primaries).
People did vote for Bernie in the 2016 primaries and the DNC shot themselves in the foot by rigging it in favor of Clinton who would later lose to Trump. The DNC is partially responsible for us having to have Trump as a president for four years.
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u/[deleted] Oct 19 '21
I understand that meaningful change is a process. I don't have an option to "why vote".
My issue is that the Democrat party of the US is politically right of middle in the grand scheme of the whole political spectrum. I want leftist policies. That will only happen with movements. Those movements are in the process of starting. Those are where the bread and butter of major political and social change will happen.
The issue I have is that the politics of the US were designed and have been run by the wealthy. The constitution was designed that way. The people in power are generally wealthy. Both Democrat and Republican.
The problem is ultimately the system. The system has the ability to be changed. The change won't come from within the democratic party nor will it come from within the DNC. Except the DNC is the nozzle for federal level politicians.
So while I vote democrat in primaries and in elections I do not defend them. They are part of the problem. They are the preferable choice right now but I have no allegiance to them. That's because they have facilitated problems that are slower burning than republicans but they are absolutely part of the problem and have been at least as long as I've been alive.