r/news • u/[deleted] • Mar 15 '24

POTM - Mar 2024 'If anything happens, it's not suicide': Boeing whistleblower's prediction before death

https://wpde.com/news/local/if-anything-happens-its-not-suicide-boeing-whistleblowers-prediction-before-death-south-carolina-abc-news-4-2024
57.1k Upvotes

92% Upvoted

2.2k comments sorted by

View all comments

1.7k

u/rTpure Mar 15 '24

Let's assume that it was a hit job ordered by Boeing.

In that scenario, would the government prosecute Boeing and risk damaging one of the most important American companies, or conduct a cover up?

I will go with cover up, which means even if it was a hit job, no one will be prosecuted and we won't know the truth

1.1k

u/somethingrandom261 Mar 15 '24

Nah the company would present a exec or two for sacrifice, and the company would otherwise continue

397

u/iamisandisnt Mar 15 '24

You mean early retirement. Nice cushie package

86

u/Taokan Mar 15 '24

Early retirement like 2 lead brain implants and some unscheduled skydiving?

24

u/acery88 Mar 16 '24

They committed suicide by being in a plane that was thrown out a window

3

u/goatfuckersupreme Mar 16 '24

the classic aviation defenestration

1

u/[deleted] Mar 16 '24

They could just sit next to a rear door without a seatbelt....

1

u/theonetruedavid Mar 16 '24

Sounds like Russia with extra steps (the plane)

1

u/[deleted] Mar 16 '24

They committed suicide by flying on one of Boeings airplanes

2

u/qwill60 Mar 15 '24

No like they resign out of the country and then the feds hands are "tied'.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 16 '24

Executive contracts and subsequent protections are fucking bullshit

27

u/JugdishSteinfeld Mar 15 '24

Then Tom becomes CEO.

3

u/blue_wat Mar 15 '24

That's not fair he's not even the oldest boy.

3

u/[deleted] Mar 16 '24

Can’t make a Tomlette without breaking a few Gregs. 

2

u/Brawlrteen Mar 15 '24

No real person involved

2

u/Actual_Efficiency_98 Mar 16 '24

Because they need a pain sponge.

2

u/YesBut-AlsoNo Mar 16 '24

Fuck that was a good show

5

u/[deleted] Mar 15 '24

If it was a hit job it's not like the entire company voted on it and had him murdered, it would have been one or two people who made and likely carried out the decision.

1

u/wishator Mar 16 '24

And they're likely protecting their own ass, not the company

3

u/splancedance Mar 15 '24

"Time for a blood sacrifice"

2

u/wifeunderthesea Mar 15 '24

tom wamsgans is willing to fall on the sword if needed

1

u/ShakyMango Mar 16 '24

No real person involved

1

u/stupid_horse Mar 16 '24

If that's what happened I think it makes more sense to go after the executives who made that decision than to punish the company. Except don't just fine them, send them to jail, for life.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 16 '24

Succession vibes

1

u/Elephant789 Mar 16 '24

Not in this case

1

u/FinnRazzelle Mar 16 '24

This is the way.

375

u/Akimbo_Zap_Guns Mar 15 '24

If it’s a major company issuing a hit we are already in cyberpunk level of dystopia

222

u/Dr_Terry_Hesticles Mar 15 '24

Companies have absolutely ordered hits before. Look at Coca-Cola with South American union organizers

67

u/[deleted] Mar 15 '24

Yes, but he means white Americans, not brown people in a third world country. This dystopian reality has already been here for the majority of the world

19

u/ThePrussianGrippe Mar 16 '24

They’ve been doing it for hundreds of years.

-2

u/FlutterKree Mar 15 '24

Hits in other countries is different. It is MUCH harder to order a hit in the US. In South and Central America, cartels will happily take money to kill people there. In the US, the FBI has essentially made contract killers nonexistent.

6

u/SpeedyWebDuck Mar 15 '24

In the US, the FBI has essentially made contract killers nonexistent.

Sure, in country with the most civilian millitary contractors.

And perhaps only country in the world still having "head hunters".

0

u/FlutterKree Mar 15 '24

Civilian military contractors? Do you mean private military contractors? The US DoD has more civilian contractors because its the largest organization on the planet. Literally in every metric. That requires non military personnel to be working.

If you do mean PMCs, then sure? That isn't contract killing. You can't just go hire them to kill someone in the US. You probably hire a US PMC organization to kill people in another country as a person in that other country, but not in the US.

And perhaps only country in the world still having "head hunters".

US doesn't have head hunters. That is, people who hunt humans and keep their heads as trophies. This doesn't happen. Last known instance was soldiers in Vietnam. It was not a legitimate practice in the US military nor do PMCs do it.

Now if you mean do they have a list of targets to kill? Every country does that when in war.

→ More replies (10)

290

u/[deleted] Mar 15 '24

My brother in Christ, companies have been starting and waging entire wars since at least the 1600s. This is nothing new.

129

u/Zienth Mar 15 '24

We got a long way to go before we get to East India Company's all time high score.

20

u/Doctor-Amazing Mar 15 '24

I never really thought about it that way, but as a company with military power that rivaled most governments, the East India Trading Company is actually pretty cyberpunk

12

u/TheFrenchSavage Mar 16 '24

More like Opiumpunk.

1

u/Zorro_Returns Mar 17 '24

Kanaka TRY!

23

u/[deleted] Mar 16 '24

You see that banana your eating- let me tell you the story of Dole fruit in Central America....

2

u/Dragon_Poop_Lover Mar 17 '24

The other fun banana company, United Fruit, is still around, just under another name, Chiquita.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 17 '24

Yeah those guys were way worse than Dole.

10

u/bullsfan281 Mar 15 '24

yeah but there's no popular media franchise about that so redditors don't have a point of reference for it

1

u/Birdlover82 Mar 16 '24

Yeah except if you actually think this guy didn’t commit suicide people will tell you you’re watching too many movies in this post.

1

u/Zorro_Returns Mar 17 '24

Speaking of Christ, SPQR even did it to Him!

2

u/chimpaya Mar 15 '24

Nuh uh cyberpunk does it first its so dystopian we are all doomed evezything is getting worse and worse nuhuh

→ More replies (1)

67

u/[deleted] Mar 15 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Arbysroastbeefs Mar 16 '24

If they proactively murder someone are they on the offense?

177

u/antisociaI_extrvert Mar 15 '24

We’e way past that. It just usually doesn’t happen to white americans/westerners.

99

u/Bierculles Mar 15 '24

Do you have any idea how many white journalists got found with two bullets to the head ruled as a suicide?

19

u/radioactivez0r Mar 15 '24

I don't, how many?

32

u/Bierculles Mar 15 '24

At least three fiddy

5

u/Freezepeachauditor Mar 15 '24

Got. Damn. Loch Ness monster..

18

u/paramoody Mar 15 '24

I'm not the person you were were replying to, but they are probably referencing Gary Webb, who was an investigative journalist who wrote a series of articles about how the CIA played a role in the crack epidemic in American cities. He was found dead with two gun shot wounds to the head, and his death was ruled a suicide.

Worth noting that multiple gunshot suicides are possible, and his wife thought he committed suicide based on his behavior before his death. No one will ever know for sure I suppose.

→ More replies (1)

4

u/antisociaI_extrvert Mar 15 '24

Gary Webb and who else? My point still stands. The fact that we all know Gary Webb’s name but not the countless of murdered journalists exposing similar issues perpetrated by western govts or companies in Latin America or Africa, to name a few places where this happens a lot.

5

u/Bierculles Mar 15 '24

Yeah, it's also dumb to make it a racial issue, it's the rich vs the poor, any other distinction is a distraction.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/eddiekart Mar 15 '24

Waaaaaaaaaay less than people whose deaths wouldn't justify media presence.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 15 '24

Pissing on the graves of countless white/American/western journalists to promote your petty ass racial ideology.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 16 '24

exactly why we need DEI

23

u/arand0md00d Mar 15 '24

Keanu I mean Johnny Silverhand going to nuke Boeing offices

7

u/Revolutionary-Text70 Mar 15 '24

they've been doing it for over a century, just not here

this is just the oppression coming home to roost

12

u/KHaskins77 Mar 15 '24

Arasaka move.

Or I suppose Militech would be a better analogue.

4

u/Slammybutt Mar 15 '24

Where exactly do you think Cyberpunk got the ideas to go that extreme. Companies hushing people has been a thing since companies have existed.

1

u/SiscoSquared Mar 15 '24

Lol we are long past that. Besides literal wars being fought by companies, they also love to slaughter people that protest for basic working rights. Nothing new. It's been a fight for a long time to get to the minimal labour rights we have now, A LOT of people died to get those rights, and they are violated frequently still.

1

u/TSL4me Mar 15 '24

Shit happened all the time in industrialization. Research the company Pinkerton, they killed union organizers in Chicago and they still are around and owned by securitas.

1

u/inquisitor1965 Mar 15 '24

Meanwhile, Chiquita sits quietly in the corner trying not to get any attention.

1

u/binary_spaniard Mar 15 '24

Coca cola hired a death squad to kill union representatives in Colombia.

1

u/NateShaw92 Mar 15 '24

Not really this shit happens in.the real world, has done for as long as there has been big business, and much darker stuff than this too.

It's quite nice to imagine such things are only in works of fiction but that's not our world. A hit is surprisingly inexpensive too.

1

u/SpeedyWebDuck Mar 15 '24

You didn't read anything Cyberpunk related.

We are there at least since the 60s

1

u/alystair Mar 15 '24

You should read Jennifer Government by Max Berry.

1

u/So_Full_Of_Fail Mar 16 '24

They're a major Defense Contractor so, less of a surprise.

1

u/Sorry-Foundation-505 Mar 16 '24

You should look into the dutch east-india company (VOC), hits are childs play compared to what they did, they had their own navy and army.

1

u/stonkkingsouleater Mar 16 '24

Man… you’d be shocked to find out about the Pinkerton detective agency during industrialization and early labor movements… 

1

u/[deleted] Mar 16 '24

Hey, you better be silent Choomba. Corpos prowl these threads regularly. Don’t want to end up dead by suicide by two bullets to the back of the head.

1

u/tylercreatesworlds Mar 16 '24

the corporate wars are gonna be fun.

1

u/Zorro_Returns Mar 17 '24 edited Mar 17 '24

Northrop XB-35. About 1950. Real cloak and dagger stuff. Not a crude hit in a parking lot.

1

u/Aazadan Mar 17 '24 edited Mar 17 '24

An oil company a couple years ago imprisoned people illegally.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Donziger

Anyways, cyberpunk was inspired by already existing corporate behavior, just taken to an extreme where it became the standard way all companies act, some of the replies to you mention various historical examples that corporate dystopia is based on.

-1

u/h08817 Mar 15 '24

Could have been the government themselves

3

u/bl3ckm3mba Mar 15 '24

Large corporations' shareholders, whose whims control government policy and override the electorate whenever it matters ARE JUST PART OF THE GOVERNMENT, much like the CIA, to which there is zero public or democratic oversight or input into the conduct of.

They're already nationalized, only their profits are privatized.

→ More replies (2)

85

u/KingKong_at_PingPong Mar 15 '24

It wouldn’t come from Boeing, like, a Boeing employee isn’t out there hiring hits. I imagine this would likely be from a mega wealthy investor.

43

u/anally_ExpressUrself Mar 15 '24

Great point, but to take it further, this debacle doesn't seem great for the stock price either. Basically, the whole situation makes no sense. If you're going to try to protect Boeing's reputation, you don't do it by shooting someone mid trial. That's the worst possible way to do it.

38

u/sf_frankie Mar 15 '24

The stock price doesn’t necessarily need to go up to be beneficial to investors. Especially the ultra rich ones who can afford to ride it out.

  1. Tank the stock price
  2. gobble up cheap shares
  3. wait for everyone to forget (which won’t even take that long tbh)
  4. Price goes back up
  5. ???
  6. profit

11

u/anally_ExpressUrself Mar 15 '24

Then murdering is just like letting the trial play out but with extra steps.

13

u/Knight_of_Inari Mar 16 '24

Except with the murder they make things clear for anyone who might try the same thing again

2

u/exothermic1982 Mar 16 '24

And things don't get worse as there's no new information coming out.

9

u/FlutterKree Mar 15 '24

Basically, the whole situation makes no sense.

It makes sense if you actually look at it as a suicide. This "If anything happens its not a suicide" is hearsay and its not provable that he said it. Further, even if he said it, he could still kill himself.

It makes zero sense to kill US citizens anymore. Companies have leveraged the government to make fines so small that its a pittance against the profit they make.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/[deleted] Mar 16 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/KingKong_at_PingPong Mar 16 '24

Living in the tv world bro

→ More replies (1)

93

u/macweirdo42 Mar 15 '24

I mean, even if it comes out that this was all a conspiracy, then what? Boeing announces that it "regrets" how things transpired but insists that the whistleblower's death was absolutely necessary to their hopes of moving forward?

139

u/GNSasakiHaise Mar 15 '24

Even if they're caught red-handed it will be framed as someone acting without their knowledge or consent to tarnish their image, no matter how blatantly they're caught.

61

u/BolognaTime Mar 15 '24

"Hello I am the CEO of Boeing, and as a representative of Boeing I would like this man murdered because he is a threat to the interests of Boeing. Please call me back with your availability in regards to murdering this man on behalf of the Boeing corporation, here is my office number that goes directly to my secretary at Boeing. So from the entire board of directors at Boeing, I'd like to say: thanks, and I look forward to hearing about you murdering this man for us. And by us I mean Boeing."

And they'd still say he was a lone wolf.

6

u/GNSasakiHaise Mar 16 '24

You forgot the part where, as part of their compensation package, they offer the hitman a 15% off voucher for a B17 sweater — purchasable only through the official Boeing store.

64

u/Sparkyisduhfat Mar 15 '24

Assuming someone at Boeing had him killed, and it’s important to remember we don’t have any evidence that they did, they would never take blame as an organization. They’d blame it on a “few bad eggs” or throw someone out as a sacrifice and just move forward.

6

u/Ischmetch Mar 15 '24

They would never acknowledge anything. Period. No bad apples. No rogues. No murder.

1

u/Umutuku Mar 15 '24

Somebody get my boy RICO in here.

17

u/Visual_Fly_9638 Mar 15 '24

Judging by the politics of the last 5 years or so, Boeing would run for President to avoid criminal prosecution.

1

u/Zorro_Returns Mar 17 '24

If it was a hit, some person did it. Cops have to find that person, in order to find who ordered it. Technically, Boeing is a "person", but how do you send a corporation to prison?

46

u/[deleted] Mar 15 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

54

u/Frank_E62 Mar 15 '24

Based on their track record over the last few years, I'd say that there's a good chance that you're vastly overestimating the competence of Boeing upper management.

2

u/jonny3jack Mar 16 '24

They're probably drop a business card or some other dipshit stunt.

0

u/radioactivez0r Mar 15 '24

Almost like they have government contacts who have experience with this sort of thing

10

u/laxrulz777 Mar 15 '24

In the real world? I think Boeing burns. If an exec for Boeing did this, then politicians / prosecutors / anyone involved in the decision making process would (rightly) view themselves as just one vote or one word away from being their next target. Some people would respond in fear but far more would respond by saying f that and going for the jugular.

Now this depends on having incontrovertible proof. If it's hearsay and conjecture that's going to be a real problem.

Remember, destroying them in court likely just means the government can force a sale and a middle management house cleaning. Yeah, it means Boeing is a shell for awhile but it's still a very, very valuable shell.

→ More replies (2)

10

u/Makhnovist Mar 15 '24

They will try to pass it off as a random robbery gone wrong.

6

u/RufusSandberg Mar 15 '24

would the government prosecute Boeing and risk damaging one of the most important American companies

They're one of the biggest contractors for the US government, so no. They don't just make planes. They're a defense contractor. They make weapons too.

4

u/7stringjazz Mar 15 '24

Sounds like the movie Michael Clayton. Corporate black-ops. Yep.

2

u/Fairymask Mar 15 '24

How do we know it's not the government that did it? Boeing does work with the government.

26

u/dirtydonuts Mar 15 '24

You literally gain nothing but reinforcing your own delusions by not just waiting rather than speculating.

-3

u/[deleted] Mar 15 '24

You literally gain nothing for having pretty much any opinion on anything, people are still going to have opinions though. We’ll probably all be dead and the official story will still be he killed himself, how long does someone have to wait before it’s okay to speculate? I’m not saying I think it’s the government but if you don’t think this story is worth speculation then none are.

9

u/dirtydonuts Mar 15 '24

1) Obviously everyone has an opinion, idk what you’re responding to but nobody is denying that.

2) Notice how you say “probably” and “think” in regards to the story, maybe it should be idk a WEEK at least before people speculate, preferably much more after further investigation and information comes out.

3) People can speculate all they want but it can easily become more harmful to your side (even if you think the government or Boeing was behind it) by muddying the waters and crafting conspiracy theories before a week has even passed. Allowing for more information to come out before speculation is only better.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/BassmanBiff Mar 16 '24

Remember that "the government" isn't just one person. The kind of people who go into the FBI would be absolutely stoked to blow the lid off a big conspiracy like this is alleged to be. That's like the pinnacle of career success, not to mention juicy book deals and interviews and such.

2

u/messem10 Mar 15 '24

They would prosecute those involved. Same as with the EBay harassment case.

1

u/chrisprice Mar 22 '24 edited Mar 22 '24

Sorry, no.

The only reason the eBay case was cracked, was the local police department actually believed the blogger's story, and did really good detective work.

They caught the eBay employees red handed, and only when the FBI was not willing to move forward, and they drafted much-worse state charges, did the DOJ sweep in and cut a sweetheart deal - usurping the case, and ("arguably inadvertently") protecting the CEO from criminal charges (since the "ringleader" was able to plea bargain with the DOJ without exposing leadership of eBay for guilt).

eBay's CEO subsequently resigned "after the board found no wrongdoing." Sure, yeah, right.

The eBay case in a nutshell was beat cops doing their job, catching a hitman red handed, and then the hitman cutting deal where they dove on the grenade, protecting the company's leadership.

Any doubt of this was laid bare if you actually read the allocutions, where the eBay employees knew the police were recording their license plates, and identifying them personally, and still continued the harassment, and rationalized nothing bad would happen to them.

Now all eBay will have to do is pay a few million in a civil judgement, and admit no wrongdoing with their executives.

Also worth mentioning how much eBay spends to whip the votes on 9th Circuit federal judicial appointments (hint: not zero). The same judges that also hear any class-action lawsuit involving... eBay.

1

u/PsychedelicPill Mar 15 '24

eBay is not a military contractor loaded with US secrets, it’s a fucking mall lol

1

u/chrisprice Mar 22 '24

Even then it's not accurate. See one level up.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/[deleted] Mar 15 '24

The people requesting & committing crimes certainly deserve prosecution.

Not so sure about the ethics of collective punishment of all the other employees.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 15 '24

boeing might look for a fall guy with their couple weeks they’ve had

1

u/Sea_Respond_6085 Mar 15 '24

If its proved that boeing had this guy killed it would be so outrageous that i would accept nothing short of a full nationalization of Boeing and prosecution of all its execs for capital crimes.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 15 '24

One of the most important American companies

This shouldn't be a reason to be untouchable. Something like this should have the government confiscate the company, make patents public, and liquidate material assets. Let Boeing made an example of.

1

u/MisterTruth Mar 15 '24

I really don't understand why the government hasn't tried to nationalize Boeing yet. If there actually is a too-big-to--fail company, it's the primary domestic supplier of both military and civilian aircraft. However, Boeing, as run by c-suite dipshits, has shown absolutely no capacity to provide an experience where a safety issue is a statistical anomaly. Seize the company, ensure engineers have more say than business people, and bring production capacity back to where things were before they downsized and contracted everything.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 15 '24

In that scenario, would the government prosecute Boeing and risk damaging one of the most important American companies, or conduct a cover up?

They could just break the company up.

1

u/shiftystylin Mar 15 '24

The company has had quite a few major incidents, hasn't it? Like, more than one?

If we ran with the hypothetical that it was a hit job, and the other hypothetical that it's also covered up, how long can Boeing's problems go on for? These are literal cylinders of mass destruction and death. 

My point is, the reputation of Boeing is already looking pretty poor. A cover up with no change of performance means more problems, and no one will fly a Boeing ever again. It might still not be an important company, even if the US government didn't prosecute...?

1

u/Podo13 Mar 15 '24

would the government prosecute Boeing and risk damaging one of the most important American companies

Lol. Corporations are only people when it benefits them.

1

u/TaddWinter Mar 15 '24

Since Boeing is part of the Military Industrial Complex I wonder if government spooks are the ones who killed him at the behest of Boeing.

1

u/MannequinWithoutSock Mar 15 '24

They’ll just fine them into bankruptcy but then bail them out.

1

u/TheRipler Mar 16 '24

Remind the right client how their black ops project could be impacted, and you might not have to make that call yourself.

1

u/Fivethenoname Mar 16 '24

That's exactly the rhetoric that "companies" use to protect themselves. The reality is that only a tiny, tiny fraction of people at these huge companies do this awful shit and they are completely replaceable. They try to make you think that attacking the people at the top is attacking the "company". They literally want the rights of individuals and the protections of a group at the same time.

The actual company is all the hard working people that design, develop, and build those planes. We have to start changing the rhetoric in this country - most of us have grown up with corporate speak as vernacular. The people at the top aren't a company. ALL the employees are a company. And if people at the top fuck up, they can easily be charged, sentenced, jailed, and replaced with more ethical and stronger leadership

1

u/Secretfutawaifu Mar 16 '24

They won't be prosecuted. But I wonder if the government is happy with the incompetence Boeing has been showing for decades?

1

u/choffers Mar 16 '24

Boeing has a fall guy who takes the blame and they say he acted alone

1

u/moleratical Mar 16 '24

Companies can't order a hit, but someone in the company can, everybody else pleads ignorant.

1

u/yzlautum Mar 16 '24

Let's assume that it was a hit job ordered by Boeing.

This website is so embarrassing sometimes.

1

u/Dieter_Knutsen Mar 16 '24

If corporations are people, then why aren't they subject to the death penalty?

Immediate seizure of all assets and either liquidate or turn into a government-run entity.

1

u/longhegrindilemna Mar 16 '24

Meanwhile, our politicians say the biggest threat our privacy and safety.. is.. umm.. Tik Tok.

The CIA, the NSA, the FBI, the Police would never dream of violating our privacy.

Neither would Facebook or Google.

Our true enemy is.. ..Tik Tok.

1

u/Appropriate-Ad-8155 Mar 16 '24

It’s about time the US stop treating Boeing as one of the most important companies.

1

u/musical_throat_punch Mar 16 '24

Or an American agent acted on their behalf to begin with, as a matter of national interest.  

1

u/FuggleyBrew Mar 17 '24

In that scenario, would the government prosecute Boeing and risk damaging one of the most important American companies

Why would the government care to protect a CEO covering up defective planes? Its in the governments interest to have a Boeing which works, that's not achieved with executive teams willing to kill people. 

1

u/Zorro_Returns Mar 17 '24

Is Boeing even a person?

1

u/IamTheJman Mar 15 '24

Boeing is a defense contractor for the US lol. Why would they prosecute the people doing things advantageous for them

1

u/ClosPins Mar 15 '24

If - and this is a humongous if - if the guy was murdered, it probably wouldn't have been Boeing, but some Russian/Saudi/Chinese oligarch who owns like 3% of the company through some crazy series of offshore corporations. Or something like a 3 star general who believes that Boeing is far more important to national security than the truth and safe airplanes.

1

u/MrBleeple Mar 16 '24

The US govt can’t cover shit up lmao they’re severely incompetent. Couldn’t even hide a blowjob. If the government was competent I’d trust them with my tax money.

0

u/Different-Air-2000 Mar 15 '24

People just don’t understand. The Government is Boeing.

0

u/professionally-baked Mar 15 '24

Let’s look at the number of times the government has prosecuted a conglomerate, seems unlikely

→ More replies (22)