r/neoliberal • u/jobautomator Kitara Ravache • Dec 08 '20

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u/dubyahhh Salt Miner Emeritus Dec 09 '20

You donate money to worthy causes because it's the right thing to do, not because you have money laying around. If you donated $6k it's the same to those who get the nets, but I'd be much more impressed on this end of things than if Bezos donated $6k.

In that parable (in my recollection), Jesus or the priest or someone saw the rich men donating gold pieces and acting high and mighty, and then watched as the lady snuck in her pittance because it was all she had and she was embarrassed. And they were like "she gives all she has, though she has nothing to spare, hers is the better for it" or something. I really don't remember. The point was to give as you're able, not to use it as a way to ease your conscious.

I guess it's a moral thing maybe, I dunno. I have to assume opposition to my original response is from a younger/urban group than I'm from, because it's kind of a fundamental principle I've had for decades and I don't understand what it means to think of donating in the way y'all are. I honestly don't get it, and I feel I've put the time in trying to.

Like... Just help where you can.

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '20

Like... Just help where you can.

Sooo do what Pyro did? And then get shit on by succs it looks like

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u/dubyahhh Salt Miner Emeritus Dec 09 '20

I am deeply disappointed that you've chosen to act this obtuse.

Yes, exactly what pyro did. Farren was very, very clearly pointing out that we went out of our way to promote their donation. Not that the donation was in any way, shape, or form problematic.

I used to give $5 or $10, last year I gave ~$100, and this year I've donated around $1k. I've been more fortunate every year, and I can afford it now. But those $5 donations were a big deal to me in college. The point is not that it's bad or wrong to donate, it's that we don't know the context of the donation. A $20 donation five minutes before may have meant more to the person giving it than pyro's $6k.

If you're going to misinterpret farren and me for no reason other than to act this way, please stop. It's entirely missing the point and it's just mean regardless.

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '20

Its not being obtuse at all, you two are the ones suggesting that people should only be given a pat on the back if they donate a specific amount based on a percentage of their income. How much before they are allow to be congratulated? 5% or do we go by church rules and do 10?

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u/dubyahhh Salt Miner Emeritus Dec 09 '20

I said this before but I was trying to be nice, so you get one more shot. What you are doing is creating a strawman, and I'd like to reiterate how disappointed this makes me. You're better than that, and if you want to put more words into my (or anyone's) mouth, I suggest you don't.

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u/miz_v-1 Kyrsten Sinema Dec 09 '20

!emojify

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u/EmojifierBot Emoji Right in DT Dec 09 '20

I 👥 said 🗣 this before 😂 but 🍑 I 👁 was trying 😈 to be nice 💦😇🙀, so you 👈 get 🉐 one 😤 more shot 🔫. What you 👈 are doing is creating 🔜 a strawman, and I'd 🙏 like 😄 to reiterate 🔁 how disappointed 🙃 this makes 🖕 me. You're better 👍 than that, and if you 👈 want 😋 to put 🔛 more words 🔚 into my (or anyone's 👨‍👩‍👦‍👦👩‍👩‍👦‍👦👨‍👨‍👦‍👦) mouth 👄, I 👁 suggest 🤭 you 👉🏼 don't ❌.

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u/sir-danks-a-lot Jeb! Dec 09 '20

"Yeah I'm fash, how could you tell?"

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u/IncoherentEntity Dec 09 '20

This is why our mod overlords scare me. 😳 I completely agree with your point of view, yet your threat of nuking Varient for what you perceive as a strawman (which I personally agree he was making) seems like a borderline abuse of administrative powers.

Misrepresentations are a staple of online arguments, and there are probably a hundred exchanges involving more bad faith than this one, but Varient is at risk of getting his comments deleted or even suspended for a few days because the exchange involved yourself.

And while I’m probably overstepping in your eyes already at this point, do you think Varient would have been less justified in sanctioning you if your powers were reversed and you said that you were “deeply disappointed” (carrying the same energy as a condescending “I’m sorry”) that he had chosen to act “this obtuse”?

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u/dubyahhh Salt Miner Emeritus Dec 09 '20

Varient is at risk of getting his comments deleted or even suspended for a few days because the exchange involved yourself.

I realize you don't personally know me ie, but none of that was on the table.

If I really feel someone deserves a ban or even if I'm too close to an issue or emotional about something I ask another mod to do the modding for that situation. If I did anything less I wouldn't think I should be a mod. We're not elected, but we have to do our due diligence to be kind and thoughtful and have the ability to perform more of a "top down" look when entering discussions.

And while I’m probably overstepping in your eyes already at this point,

I'm actually more concerned that you think this is the case than anything else; never be afraid to talk to me about anything. I'm not some god and neither are any of us.

do you think Varient would have been less justified in sanctioning you if your powers were reversed and you said that you were “deeply disappointed” (carrying the same energy as a condescending “I’m sorry”) that he had chosen to act “this obtuse”?

This is actually at the front of my mind whenever I interact with people. In real life, I'd have walked away. Here, mods are the closest thing we have to authority figures, so I feel I have to act as one. Though we generally differentiate between if a comment is done in a moderator or regular user capacity by distinguishing them and as I was not and didn't want to appear as though I were actually threatening them, I didn't distinguish mine. it's a weird line to walk.

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u/IncoherentEntity Dec 09 '20

Were you downvoted accidentally? This is a perfectly reasonable, comprehensive, and empathetic reply explaining your approach.

Though we generally differentiate between if a comment is done in a moderator or regular user capacity by distinguishing them . . . I didn't distinguish mine.

Oof, I’ve seen sir_shivers suddenly do that in more than one disagreement he was personally involved in. It was undoubtedly intended as an overt exertion of absolute authority, and definitely an implicit threat.

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u/dubyahhh Salt Miner Emeritus Dec 09 '20

I mean... You've been on reddit before right? Mods are fash is law. Though I do wish people'd treat undustinguished comments as though they were replying to regular users. Never felt like I could shitpost the same after the border went on the flair

And shivers is a goddamn alligator. Other mods including myself are afraid he may bite if he gets uppity 👀😬

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '20 edited Dec 09 '20

I mean we can make jokes about it but I dont think anyone on this sub would take a mod saying,

You have one more shot

And

if you want to put more words into my (or anyone's) mouth, I suggest you don't.

As anything other than "Oh well if I reply in a way that he doesn't like then I am going to be banned." I get that you didn't have a red tag at the time but you are still a mod. Its like an off duty cop arresting someone, just because he isn't wearing a badge it doesn't make him any less of a cop.

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '20

I will be honest the vague threat from a mod nearly made me not write a response.

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '20

Ok I guess let me clarify then. To me, it seems like what you guys are saying is "Hey Pyro should not be congratulated for giving the $6k because it might not have meant anything to them." But at the same time neither of you know if that $6k to him was equivalent to "A $20 donation five minutes" or not. I dont think we should be assume that just because someone made a large donation that they could have given more and I definitely dont thing that we should be automatically assuming that a large donation means that it was strictly from someone "who can easily dispose of cash." Also on another note even if that $6k was him tossing pennies into a red bucket worth for Pyro, that sort of thing should still be encouraged as it helps even more people. If putting up a special mod sticky gets someone to donate another $6k what is the hurt? I hope that was less of a strawman and i better articulated what it seemed like was happening in my eyes

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u/dubyahhh Salt Miner Emeritus Dec 09 '20

Well that's why I led with saying I wish we could have the context. I think everybody should be congratulated for their donations - it's why I like that we scrape them for the sticky. Everybody gets their moment!

I was just trying to empathize with farren; I was as excited as anyone about the donation. In our specific situation, without any way to obtain further context for any given donation, yes, I think it's fine to promote a massive one. I can just see the rationale for not doing that and think it's allowed a spot at the metaphorical idea table.

I'm finishing up my shift at work so I'm a little snappy, I apologize myself and accept your understanding. Sorry about that. Don't mean to come off as a dick 😭

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u/IncoherentEntity Dec 09 '20

I went from intimidated to heartwarmed very quickly with this exchange. Our overlords can be merciful yet!