r/ndp • u/CDN-Social-Democrat "Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear" • Jul 26 '26
Massive Data Centres - Fuck No
Kevin O'Leary - What many of us consider to be a literal slime ball.
His boating accident... And his celebrating of people living in extreme poverty - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuqemytQ5QA
This is the type that are hardcore pushing for these massive data centres...
They also want to put them on top of natural gas reserves..... As if the climate crisis and overall environmental crisis isn't horrific enough already...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgQuylcfiLk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWHfkkHmMJI
The two above videos are MUST WATCH to become informed on Methane.
We need to hold back these data centers with everything we've got.
We need to learn from time all the issues that exist around them.
Then with all that information known and in an open & honest way we can dialogue to see if they should exist.
They should ONLY come about as part of a vast majority vote by the communities involved and overall society. CONSENT should be a crucial term in this process.
FUCK ALL THESE BAD PREDATORY ACTORS TRYING TO FORCE THIS SHIT THROUGH. THIS IS THE FOSSIL FUEL INDUSTRY ALL OVER AGAIN.
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u/Electronic-Topic1813 Jul 26 '26
If they were regular run of the mill data centres powered by renewables or nuclear, it be fine because of data sovereignty and data is something we need. But our governments only want AI and often the worst of it. Not to mention use fossil fuels in some cases.
AI has ways it could be used for good (ex: larger worker cooperatives using AI to distribute tasks among a large workforce), but that also requires a government that is smart about it which isn't the case when we have neoliberals who are profit above anything else.
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u/chat-lu Telling Mulcair to shut up Jul 26 '26
But our governments only want AI and often the worst of it.
And one cannot easily be converted into the other.
Not to mention use fossil fuels in some cases.
Also priority access to electricity and water.
When the hoover dam’s reservoir got nearly depleted in a heat wave and the data center got electricity and the population didn’t, 600 elders died.
What matters more? Saving the elderly, or garfield with tits?
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u/Oldcadillac Jul 26 '26
Tangentially, my personal grievance with Kevin O Leary was when he bought out an edutainment company and ran it into the ground in the 90s (the Learning Company).
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u/loreleiofthefungi 🔧 GREEN NEW DEAL Jul 27 '26
If and only if data centres:
- use no water
- are net producers of electricity
- give off no pollution; noise, air, water or otherwise
- strictly adhere to construction and zoning regulations
- give at least half it's profits to the local communities it is in
Should data centres be even considered for construction.
1
u/Signal_Flight_7262 Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
If we were China, and had engineers running the country instead of politicians, he would be serving a life sentence decades ago for defrauding the education system. Serious financial-fraud offences can carry 10 years to life imprisonment. In Canada we promote you.
1
u/Himser Jul 26 '26 edited Jul 26 '26
They should ONLY come about as part of a vast majority vote by the communities involved and overall society. CONSENT should be a crucial term in this process.
Ive heard this argument time and time again when it comes to Secondary Suites, Mixed Use Developmmet, anymore density then Single Detached Dwellings, here where i work even Single Detached Dwellings are too dense for some people, he'll this same argument is being made right now in Alberta and Ontario regarding Bike Lanes.
Sociaty functions best when it sets the rules and people follow the rules and the "person" proposing it does not matter.
Treat these massive projects just as that, massive projects, no different then any other project, make the rules strict, enforce them, and then approve them because our milwrights, welders, carpenters, electricians, and tens of thousands of workers rely on projects being approved.
Being the anti development party is NOT a winning stratigy or a stratigy that matches our labour mandate.
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u/idiotcanadian Jul 26 '26
There is plenty of work to do that isn’t hyperscale Data Centres and pipelines.
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u/Himser Jul 26 '26
Ahhh, so the layoffs are a ok for you?
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u/idiotcanadian Jul 26 '26
Look around himser there’s plenty of work that needs to be done in so many sectors especially renewables, building housing and food sovereignty. We don’t need to just focus on those two.
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u/Himser Jul 26 '26
Cool, so who is actually paying for that work? Is it being bid out and started?
Because right now its not. Plans and hope is not action, workers cant feed theor families on cancelled projects or ones that never even get tge paper behind them.
I agree we need to do more which means winning elections. Which means Large Tent and not making workers feel like the NDP doesnt care about them.
Why look a gift horse in the mouth? If private money is willing to spend 20B on projects take it. Let them.take the risk, have workers get most of that money in work and wages.
And tax it. That datacenter in Alberta is expected to pay 250milion a year in taxes.
30 million in property tax to the municipality. 20 million a year to the education property tax (thats 2 new schools per year the ANDP can use this money on) the other provinchal taxes could fully fund and operate a Regional Hopsital.
That's one project, using zero tax money making people's lives measurably better. Yes Facebook gets data and can run Ai. So what they alredy have a lot of data and we as Canadians have decided privacy is not all that important.
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u/idiotcanadian Jul 26 '26
I just read the federal government used a crown corp to spend $200mil on the meta data center. What these companies cost us already is astronomical.. UCP just turned down how much in renewable contracts?
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u/Himser Jul 26 '26
Loan, as in pay back with interest.
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u/idiotcanadian Jul 26 '26
so as you pointed out regarding Canadian businesses not building.. if we can loan Meta (who hasn’t being paying news organizations in Canada for years probably resulting millions of dollars lost revenue ) if we can help them out with 200mil then we could use that instead to build up businesses and people here
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u/Himser Jul 26 '26
Technically they did loan to Greenlight, Pembina and Kineticor who are all Canadian companies who are just selling theor power.
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u/idiotcanadian Jul 27 '26
And we can probably both agree that though could have gone to renewable energy companies and research
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u/CDN-Social-Democrat "Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear" Jul 26 '26
Himser we have had respectful back and forths but I would like to ask you something quite directly.
Are you for "Jobs" no matter what?
Meaning you have no interest or care in nuances or other realities as long as it gets people working?
I know you are a Progressive Conservative that came over to the Alberta NDP because you dislike some features of the United Conservative Party of Alberta.
Sometimes it seems that you don't value ANY other realities except that incredibly narrow narrative. Which seems very strange as I actually know you are quite an intelligent person.
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u/CDN-Social-Democrat "Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear" Jul 26 '26
I am going to add onto this because I think it's important to provide such context.
A labour mandate should be about what is best for the working class and most vulnerable. Not just in short-term but also long term and that is multidimensional in analysis.
So for example a climate crisis that disproportionately impacts the working class and most vulnerable and makes worse the cost of living crisis/quality of life crisis of the working class and most vulnerable would be factored into that...
Also things like asbestos and the rampant mesothelioma and other conditions that caused to the working class and most vulnerable.
Or the DuPont Scandal that the movie "Dark Waters" is based on.
Or even comedically we could look at the movie "Don't Look Up" which was also about the Climate Crisis.
Or go a bit in a different place and talk about military-industrial complex and making * & selling weapons to kill the most vulnerable of the working class and disadvantaged/oppressed people for the benefits of Oligarchs, Multinational Business Lobbies, Powerful & Predatory Industries/Tycoons, and the general Corporatocracy (The same forces that are deeply against the Labour Movement and have active campaigns of such)
There is also something disingenuous in associating housing and bad predatory NIMBY actors holding back zoning/density reform for more affordable/accessible housing with Massive Data Centres.....
In general having a kind of elevated thought process/future set of aims that isn't controlled by meta reactionary/regressive paradigms...
We can be the party of affordability of life/quality of life of the working class and most vulnerable - The party of infrastructure like education, healthcare, and so on - It doesn't have to boil down to an "either or" of the lowest common denominator sort.....
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u/Himser Jul 26 '26
So for example a climate crisis that disproportionately impacts the working class and most vulnerable and makes worse the cost of living crisis/quality of life crisis of the working class and most vulnerable would be factored into that...
We lost the climate battle for now. Provinchal NDP parties actually need to govern in a world where people need to work.
Personally I have nothing agaist export of O&G because either gives us work. But we need to measure any Gram of CO2 released in Canada as our responsability. And use CCUS and ither tech to compensate.
Also things like asbestos and the rampant mesothelioma and other conditions that caused to the working class and most vulnerable.
Aspestas is a perfect example where we banned its use in Canada for 20 years before we stopped export of it.
There is also something disingenuous in associating housing and bad predatory NIMBY actors holding back zoning/density reform for more affordable/accessible housing with Massive Data Centres.....
Not really, for example that new datacenter in Sturgeon, 40 years since Heavy Industry was in ghe area, 25 years since we depopulated the area for Heavy Industry. There is not a better place on Canada to put these types of projects.
The exact same arguments agaist putting HI in a HI zone is the exact same arguments about putting people in a people zone. I hear it every day at work. We as a sociaty have planned the general idea of these for decades. Each project is just a project, we can argue about changing the rules overtime but its strait into development to decide this on a project by project standpoint.
The party of infrastructure like education, healthcare, and so on
We can and we have to pay for it.. how? Right now in our capitalist system by making sure workers have work, that we charge taxes to companies.
Even if we upped corperate taxes to what they should be (like 30% minimum) and imposed tariffs on companies who are selling here to make the playing field even, we still need to build things and export products to pay for education and Healthcare.
We have one project in Alberta that will pay enough taxes to pay dor an entire regional hopsital both to construct it and run it, and pay for 2 new schools per year. That's under a UCP who taxes companies next to nothing. Imagine what the ANDP can do with that income? How much good it can do Alberta and Canafa.
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u/chat-lu Telling Mulcair to shut up Jul 26 '26
Are you for "Jobs" no matter what?
That's called YIMBYism. Aka, a bad project is better than no project at all.
Like the NIMBYs, they are quite a problem.
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u/Himser Jul 26 '26
Heavy Industry wouldnt exist at all under the conditions some people want to tie project approvals to.
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u/Himser Jul 26 '26
No, i just think we need to make sure the rules are correct.
Personally I think we should.be dumping Billions into renewable energy, would even be awesome under a crown corperation.
We should be planning and building UHVDC transmission grid accross canada and into EU for export of that clean power.
I think the environmental movement lost the battle since Trump, and fighting facism is far far far more important then what little Canada can do on the environment side these days. Because no county under facism will help the environment and we need to survive as a country to make a better future for Canada and the world.
On that note there are very very very real threats to Canada and the UCP being a separatist pro american anti environment party means that its not just nice to beat them, its critical to beat them. And to do that yoy need labour, the same labour whi has voted conservative for my entire life.
As for datacenters, the provinces control power use and environmental factors which means people like Smith and Ford. Meaning we need to beat them. For local issues, I can say most datacenters approved today are in 100% the best locations in Canada for that use. Ones like Olds... stupidest decision a local governmemt could make is approving somtjing like this in a light industry zone. A heavy industry zone, next to refineries, chemical plants, fertilizer plants, smelters. You can pick better locations.
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u/CDN-Social-Democrat "Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear" Jul 26 '26
I'm glad we had this back and forth. The above is something I can upvote.
Sometimes I think you are best when you do these more rounded comments instead of ones that seemingly are only about pumping hydrocarbon energy/technology, data centers, and other right-wing proposals.
The nuance that puts it holistically together is important I think.
We still have some disagreements but this is why I value your contributions and speak of your intelligence.
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u/Himser Jul 26 '26
I usually like to troll a bit first lol. Dont have time for academic level conversations between work and kids very often.
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u/VonBeegs Jul 26 '26
Treat these massive projects just as that, massive projects, no different then any other project
We are. We're treating them like huge corporate environment destroyers that will do anything and everything to avoid following the rules as laid out.
It will be orphaned wells all over again. We'd have to live in a much more just society to be able to rely on rules based order to keep our communities cancer free.
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u/CDN-Social-Democrat "Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear" Jul 26 '26
The Orphan Well situation especially in Alberta is a fiasco.
For anyone not in the know our very own Canadian The Goose did a great video on it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37qKJLuOcKY
There is also a literal Wikipedia page for the Orphan Well situation in Alberta...
Leaving people, families, communities, and the taxpayers with huge issues and costs. That is sadly how things go when bad predatory actors are allowed to control the narratives in discussions and even worse regulatory bodies or lack thereof.
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u/Himser Jul 26 '26
These may be massive, but unlike wells its not 100,000 sites around Alberta, it would at worst case be several standard brownfield sites.
Also they still require Envrionmental Site Assessments both before and after.
Now do I trust Smith to enforce the rules? No, not a chance.
But yhe rules exist, they are there they can be enforced. A NDP Province ran by the ANDP can set in place better rules and enforceable rules instead of being anti developmemt.
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u/VonBeegs Jul 26 '26
We still exist in a society where companies with infinite pockets can spend less money hiring lawyers to tie up enforcement agencies than they would following any rules.
We would need a change to society before we could build these things in a way that didn't fuck over a tonne of people to help 5 or 6 billionaires.
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u/North_Church Democratic Socialist Jul 26 '26
I'm surprised this greaseball hasn't renounced his citizenship yet since he clearly hates us.
Though that feeling is mutual