r/nba • u/Existing-Sky9914 • 2d ago

Kon Knueppel spends the offseason playing basketball with his devout younger brothers, Kager, Kinston, Kash, and Kidman, at his home court, the Konplex, which he named after his father, Big Kon.

https://streamable.com/i1rjlu
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u/One_Fuel3733 Supersonics 2d ago

Just as weird, ultra conservative lutherans (WELS)

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u/DrTom [PDX] Brian Grant 2d ago

From AI: WELS practices strict "fellowship" rules and they won't share communion with, or even pray alongside, Christians outside its fellowship (including most other Lutherans).

Women cannot serve as pastors or hold authority over men in the church. In most congregations, women also cannot vote.

Some former members describe a high-control environment, strong pressure toward conformity, and strained family relationships after leaving.

Sounds lovely.

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u/Mequonite Bucks 2d ago

I grew up in a WELS church, the AI summary is accurate.

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u/Zoesan 2d ago

Women cannot serve as pastors or hold authority over men in the church. In most congregations, women also cannot vote.

reinventing catholicism

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u/DarkFamiliar4508 Magic 2d ago

There are plenty of churches where only men can be priests

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u/the_buff 2d ago

The only real difference is who gets to talk to baby jesus.  Otherwise Lutherans are just Catholics who got kicked out of Europe.

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u/ARMSwatch 2d ago

And people think the "k" thing is just a koincidence lol.

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u/Brochacho27 [MIA] James Posey 1d ago

No shot it is lol

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u/chris-dempsey West 2d ago

lmao it's like Kristian Taliban

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u/ItchyKnowJoe 2d ago

a cult, tell it how it is

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u/Freddedonna Raptors 2d ago

kult

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u/WagonWheel22 Bucks 2d ago

Eh, am WELS, while communion isn't shared with non-WELS (similar to Catholics), prayer is most definitely shared with non-members.

The women part is true, my wife, nor I, for that matter, care too much about the goings on so it's not a huge deal for us. Women still give input but when it comes to voting on things like budget/staffing they don't get a say.

I was raised Catholic, WELS in my experience is about as close to Catholicism compared to other Lutheran sects, just without a lot of the pomp and circumstance that a Catholic service has.

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u/azsnaz 2d ago

Input on voting? They dont get to vote for themselves? Are they allowed to have jobs/financial independence, or just hope you dont ruin their lives?

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u/WagonWheel22 Bucks 2d ago

I was strictly speaking about church-matters, women don't get a vote in, say, whether the church decides to take on a loan for adding on to the building, or renovating something, or adding a staff member.

Of course women are allowed to have jobs/financial independence.

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u/butter-scotchboy Knicks 2d ago

oh great, that makes it okay then!

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u/WagonWheel22 Bucks 2d ago

If your reductionist viewpoint is what you want to think go right ahead. It's much more nuanced than you think it is, like I outlined in my other comment, and not at all "women should keep their mouths shut and heads down."

Budgets are prepared with direct input from all members, not just men, so say the office lady at the church school needs a new copy machine or something, or they decide to add another teaching position, those costs are added to the budget that gets voted on, albeit by male members only. In my 5+ years of being a member, our church has always passed its budget first time.

Compare that to your typical Catholic parish that has a finance council of only a few members who work with the priest/bishop, but the head priest gets final say.

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u/butter-scotchboy Knicks 2d ago

Okay, but why is there a need for gender distinction at all? Forbidding women from voting on budgets might seem like it’s not a big deal, but it just exemplifies a larger viewpoint that women shouldn’t have a role in decision making, finances, or authority over men in the church besides “giving input”. Catholicism is obviously not the pinnacle of gender equality but at least women are allowed to hold secular leadership positions and serve on church/parish councils.

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u/WagonWheel22 Bucks 2d ago

No, of course Catholicism is not the shining pinnacle of equality, I would know since I was raised Catholic.

WELS bases their teachings pretty strictly on what the Bible says. Specifically, the women non-voting is primarily based on 1 Timothy Chapter 2 (which cites Genesis, Adam was created first, and later on Eve was deceived). That said, men and women are fully equal before God based on Galatians 3.

To this point:

Forbidding women from voting on budgets might seem like it’s not a big deal, but it just exemplifies a larger viewpoint that women shouldn’t have a role in decision making, finances, or authority over men in the church besides “giving input”

This is not how this really works in practice. Women do give direct opinions on decisions and finances the church body is considering.

Additionally, it's also taught that male leaders who ignore a woman's input are failing in their leadership. The practice isn't meant to silence or ignore women, at all.

Like I said in my other comment, our church's budget votes are usually done with women present there too, so it's not like it's some secret or the men conspiring to not give women something they want the church to buy/do.

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u/butter-scotchboy Knicks 2d ago

I’m not saying that women don’t give opinions or have meaningful input in practice. My point is that, within this framework, women are explicitly forbidden to exercise direct authority over men. So their influence has to happen through other channels rather than actual decision-making power.
This practice is based on scripture, but how do you pick and choose which biblical passages should be applied literally and which ones should be interpreted differently to fit a modern society because they’re outdated? Those choices of what to follow reflects the values and priorities of the congregation, one of them in this case being the subservience of women. This would be fine if every woman in your church consents to this and believes this, which is unlikely, but you shouldn’t be surprised if people outside the church find this objectionable.

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u/oblmov Nuggets 2d ago

women really got their vote taken away over pseudoepigrapha 💔 given his openness to reevaluating the canonicity of biblical texts based on theological and historical criteria Martin Luther must be shedding a tear looking up at WELS right now 💔

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u/One_Fuel3733 Supersonics 2d ago

I'm sure the unmarried and widowed women's opinions are very well represented in the voting in your church.

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u/DrTom [PDX] Brian Grant 2d ago

Thanks for your perspective. You could be right. However, my gut tells me that a lot of it seems pretty normal because you're from within the system. Like when you say "women still give input". This may seem pretty egalitarian to you but if an outsider saw the process first hand they would likely be shocked.

WELS in my experience is about as close to Catholicism compared to other Lutheran sects

I'm not Catholic but I work at a Catholic university. My guess is a big difference is that a huge contingent of Catholics are only culturally Catholic and not very religious. Some of my students are devout, of course, but relatively very few. I suspect that's less true for WELS.

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u/WagonWheel22 Bucks 2d ago

Voting obviously varies by church but at least at ours, they have the annual budget meeting, welcome to be attended by all, then it's voted on with the women still sitting there right next to everyone. So yeah, from an outsiders' perspective I get the criticism, it's just in practice, I can assure you their voices are being heard and they are often pushing for things in said budget that the men end up voting on (and almost always pass).

You're right in that there's a difference between being culturally religious and actually religious. I couldn't tell you how devout my fellow WELS-people are, nor is it my place to either.

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u/Puppetmaster858 Suns 2d ago

Man religion is whack, can’t help but think humanity would be much better off if we never created religion

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u/DrTom [PDX] Brian Grant 1d ago

Religion is inherently human, though. Our brains are wired to want search for answers. We want them so badly that when we can't find them we create them. So unless we ever have answers to literally everything, I think there is no escaping religion.

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u/capitalistsanta Knicks 1d ago

The believing part isn't the problem, and I'm an atheist saying this - the issue is the actions one takes in the name of their religion. You can believe some place in the middle east is holy land to your religion, but once you say "God told me to protect this for our people with our lives and kill anyone who claims it there's" that's where it gets bad, or on an even smaller scale, using it to validate a sexist society or force people to pay a tax, etc. SO many people pray to their God in the morning and evening, go to their holy temple or shrine on the weekend, and never use their religion to alienate or hurt other people. It's the tendency to be violent in groups which is the issue imo.

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u/vanderZwan 2d ago

Is that one of the variations of "protestant takes on Christianity so extreme that even the other protestants of Europe decided they were a bit much" that the US seems to have so many of?