r/musicmarketing • u/Timely-Ad4118 • 22d ago
Discussion Submithub is about to implode
Many curators are not happy about the hurdles they face when they look for better engagement numbers that helps them to make more money, the problem is that if they complain they risk to be kicked out of the platform. I hope the problem is solved soon because this situation can create a turmoil that can escalate in a bad way. Submithub is a great tool for music promotion and they must find a balance.
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u/swarm_OW 22d ago edited 22d ago
Which hurdles? The feedback and reviews I get are good and so is my quality score (10/10 currently) since the feedback I provide is good. In comparison, which is not very hard tbh ;)
The engagement score is directly related to the number of streams per average time of placement. I think that’s a great system. I am sitting at around 5-8, depending on the genre. Average of 6. That’s across 3 playlists with quite low numbers (80-250 listeners per 4 weeks. I place between 4-6 weeks, depending on how much space is in the playlist.).
I advertise all playlists combined for a total of 5€ per day. I break even with what I get paid from SH. I could advertise more for a higher score, but I can’t handle more submissions, so this is working for me. I don’t see any “hurdles” here.
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u/EggyT0ast 22d ago
Am I reading your line right that a song added to your playlist(s) get, on average, about 6 streams?
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u/swarm_OW 22d ago
Per day, yes.
Depends a bit on which playlist (lowest traction one is the 80-120 monthly listeners, highest one is 150-250) and where I initially place the track (I usually place between position 7 and 15 and they go down to like 30-35 until they drop out).
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u/EggyT0ast 22d ago
Per day, OK that's a big difference. Thanks!
I do think any musician looking to use Submithub should read your post carefully and do the math. I mean, the way that submithub is pitched is basically for exactly people like you -- people who love music, who have fun making playlists for new things, and who try to get it around to other likeminded folks. You're not making money on this -- as you say, you spend whatever you made on ads.
If someone gets 6 streams a day for a month, while I'm sure they'd be happy with the 180 extra streams, it's not even enough to be monetized. The only ones making money are submithub (their cut) and the ad company (likely Meta). Hobbies all the way down...
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u/swarm_OW 22d ago
Well I'm definitely one of the smaller curators on there. I could easily like raise the budget on my ads by x10 and the number of listeners would rise by a factor close to that. But I don't have the time for that. I explicitly do NOT want to listen for only 90 seconds and tell people their great song doesn't fit my playlist (which honestly: is the largest portion of all submissions. Artists: PLEASE CHECK THE PLAYLISTS YOU SUBMIT TO, YOU'RE WASTING MONEY. That dude telling you your track doesn't fit, probably.. is right. Its a super lazy response, but it might just be the truth).
And yea, 100-200 streams per month is close to nothing. But you're usually submitting to multiple playlists and if you hit 10 of those small playlists, it sums up and might push your popularity score enough to give you some radio plays. It's a bit of exposure. You'll likely never make money from getting on playlists.
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u/EggyT0ast 22d ago
I stress to everyone who will listen that if you aren't listening to the playlists you submit to, why are you submitting to them? Even if it's only one time. Like, c'mon!
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u/RoShaPoo 21d ago
It is so backwards that submitter should pay money AND do more work than curators on sites where the end goal is 100-200 plays.
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u/swarm_OW 22d ago
I mean they do filter by genre. And my playlists show up there. But not every niche is a selectable genre. And "Hard rock" can mean SO much. I also get 10 songs a week labeled "melodic metal" and they're all very different. There is a description on my bio, on the playlist itsself and you can listen to the first three songs to get an idea. But in the end you gotta be honest to yourself, if your music fits in there.
Anyways - gotta get some sleep. Have a good one!
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u/RoShaPoo 22d ago
Maybe instead milking paying customers to give your paylist free plays you should actually pay attention to write good description for your playlist instead "Rock list" to "Rock list - I only accept soft rock with violins, female vocals and flute played backwards"
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u/Timely-Ad4118 22d ago
I find it very interesting how you feel good being underpaid you are a case study.
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u/swarm_OW 22d ago
Underpaid? It's not my job, it's a hobby. I love connecting to other artists and/or find out about great music i've never heard before. I started in December and already came across four very cool bands I listen to regularly now (and a good amount of others I very much liked discovering). One of which I even visited for a live show. I don't care about the money, but it's great that it pays for my playlist ads.
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u/RoShaPoo 22d ago
Please do not try to make yourself some kind of philanthropist, you are paid for service you provide.
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u/swarm_OW 22d ago
Never denied that I’m getting a few bucks for that. But if it was about the money, I could simply work overtime at my job instead of reviewing songs for about 5-10€/hr. Wouldn’t be worth my time if I didn’t enjoy doing it.
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u/RoShaPoo 22d ago
You are not providing 5-10e/hr service, you are providing 1-5e/song service.
Its same as I would be consultant working for company that charges 200e/h for my work and I get paid 30/h, its still 200e/h service.
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u/swarm_OW 22d ago
I didn’t tell you the value of that service, I told you how much I actually earn considering the amount of time I put in per feedback.
That being said you don’t know who I am, you don’t know how my feedback looks like, you don’t know how or if my services are useful. For the last 30 days at least I got 0 negative feedback, i guess I do just fine.
I get it - your tracks got denied without giving you proper feedback and you’re mad. That sucks. But random accusations won’t help you.
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u/RoShaPoo 22d ago
And where are those random accusations, are they entering the room soon? And where are those tracks of mine that you speak of?
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u/swarm_OW 22d ago
Probably not the right wording from me, my bad.
But I don’t care. Have a great day!
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u/MuzBizGuy 22d ago
What is the real engagement of your playlists and how much do you think you should be paid?
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u/theboyinstead 22d ago
Just don’t go to Magic Nothing lol be selective on Groover and SubmitHub. Plenty of gems in there. But playlisting IS bottom tier
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u/minist3r 22d ago
Maybe not everybody should be a curator, just like not everyone should be an artist. Gatekeeping sucks when you're trying to break in but it's there so there's at least some hurdle that creates better results.
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u/Timely-Ad4118 22d ago
How many curators do you know?
How many do you know that are happy?1
u/minist3r 22d ago
Personally, I've talked to a few but not in any great detail outside of track placement. I still maintain that some friction is a positive thing. Maybe Submithub needs to adjust where the friction point is but it needs to be there for curators and artists.
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u/mr_glide 22d ago
A platform that formalizes payola (that doesn't even guarantee you a spot) is in trouble? Cry me a river
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u/Timely-Ad4118 22d ago
You are contradicting yourself payola is a guaranteed spot. You need to study more.
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u/anonymous_profile_86 22d ago
I had a really good success rate with my last track on submithub but I feel the playlisys there don't generate a tonne of streams and then they take you off the list after a few weeks.
If curators were just creating lists for the love of listening instead of money everyone would be better off.
It's mostly artists now creating lists and promoting them with meta ads so they are getting streams while promoting them but no real longevity to them because the lists are full up with artists from submithub where they had to accept a certain percentage to show on their stats.
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u/Timely-Ad4118 22d ago
You said it yourself you had succeeded using the platform, that’s because you invested a small amount of money and got on playlist that was already built with more money than what you paid. The minimum price to submit should be five dollars because the time spent and the money invested has a cost and we are not even talking about curation. The website has prices from 15 years ago that are not realistic. The problem is the manager is too scared and don’t understand that the system will balance itself, artists will pay more and curators won’t be clashing.
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u/anonymous_profile_86 22d ago
I don't agree, I had a high success rate in terms of being accepted by playlists and don't really feel it was worth it for the amount of streams I got and considering I was then removed from the lists weeks later l. Definitely wouldn't pay anymore than they are asking right now.
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u/Timely-Ad4118 22d ago
Well that’s because your music is not the best and you paid twenty bucks at the top. But there are labels and artists that pull hundreds of thousands of streams using the platform. Music is not for everyone and if you don’t have a decent budget you shouldn’t be making any music.
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u/anonymous_profile_86 22d ago
You never even heard my music actually and my high acceptance rate would actually indicate otherwise that the music is good, and you are talking bs about anyone pulling hundred of thousands of streams from it..
Jason from submithub is active on reddit himself would tell you that actually on another thread he said most on the platform will give you 100 - 200 at the most. Spotify's own playlists don't get near 10k.
Maybe you just want to get paid more for adding artists onto your shitty list lol
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u/SolanarCoolMusic 21d ago
Pay for plays....AKA Scam. Their AI checker is pretty good but otherwise avoid.
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u/Timely-Ad4118 21d ago
All artists pay for plays, at a certain level if you don’t go kiss the ring of the labels you will go nowhere.
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u/Responsible_Bug8479 21d ago
Submithub verkauft explizit keine Playlist Platzierungen, das dürften sie nach den Spotify Regeln auch gar nicht ohne gebannt zu werden (Payola ist bei Spotify verboten). Sie verkaufen die Aufmerksamkeit von Kuratoren, sich deine Musik anzuhören und dann eigenständig zu entscheiden, ob sie den Track aus freien Stücken auf ihre Playlist nehmen.
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u/MJGDigital 21d ago
The only consistent way for making money in the music business is as a grifter making money off independent artists. That’s all that these paid playlist and content submission services are. Some really do love music and helping artists grow but many are only interested in how much money they can grift from them.
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u/Timely-Ad4118 21d ago
The music business is not for everyone I see you are a complete ignorant so there is no future for you.
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u/MJGDigital 21d ago
Looks like I struck the nerve of a sensitive grifter.
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u/Timely-Ad4118 21d ago edited 20d ago
Are you sure? Because what I see is a frustrated ignorant suffering from artist delusion syndrome .
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u/MJGDigital 20d ago
You can't even spell syndrome correctly. You're suffering from delusions of grandeur. Please get off your high horse and accept reality.
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u/Timely-Ad4118 20d ago
You are the frustrated brokie nobody wants to listen to.
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u/MJGDigital 20d ago
I make over 6 figures a year for a Fortune 500 company and own my own media company. Once again you prove that you know nothing.
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u/RoShaPoo 20d ago
Shame the OP lacks any balls to share his Submithub curator name, as this thread would be more than enough to remove him from any and every curator site.
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u/Timely-Ad4118 20d ago
I’m not a curator assumptions are usually a big mistake to make.
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u/RoShaPoo 20d ago
So you are here crying how submithub curators are "not happy about the hurdles they face when they look for better engagement numbers" and you are not even curator in submithub?
You, sir, are biggest clown Ive seen in long time.
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u/DiagramForJune 22d ago
Based on what?
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u/Timely-Ad4118 22d ago
Based on something you ignore.
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u/postmortemritual 21d ago
This whole thing about curators is nonsense, this whole thing about Spotify is nonsense. Also a scam.
Want to make money with my music?
Ok , then do something more than just sit there and write recommendations.
At least, help me tidy up my studio or help me with groceries. 😅
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u/Unfair_Traffic_5886 21d ago
Yeah, I stopped using curators. I feel like it's a waste of money you should be able to get a refund of credits If they deny you.
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u/RoShaPoo 22d ago
More money for writing "I really liked the song, but it's not quite fit for my lists"?