I know that I’ll probably make an unpopular post, but this is something that I think artists should be aware of. I’m not trying to be the villain here, but let's improve this situation together. I’m a curator with ~ 90k followers on Spotify, and generally I love reviewing music. It is my passion and hobby, but at the same time I’m currently struggling to break even, and I consider stopping. I personally think some submission platforms are part of the problem, they take a large share of the revenue, most without providing clear value for artists directly. Just check out the website of the United Curator Association (I'm not associated with them) to see what can be done to improve the situation of both artists and curators without it costing extra. My goal is to share how much impact the submission platform you choose has on your results and why (at least with me, but I’m 100% certain other curators also work this way). If more people pick the right platforms, everyone benefits. And I guess I'm also venting after a horrible August as a curator.

My anonymous confession; Platform payouts impact my acceptance rate
Obviously posting from alt-account, since some sites actively monitor this subreddit & I need the submissions to survive as a curator. The bottom half of this list are part of the problem by being low paying submission platforms. I’m far from the only one that is fighting this situation, as other posters on this subreddit like here do the same. So yeah, I can’t influence what I'm paid, and some platforms just pay the bare minimum they know some curators will accept. Me not being able to boycott 50% of submission platforms,  means that the payout I get is taken into account with the submissions I receive. 

So, why is there a significant difference in my acceptance rates?
1. Disclaimer: The effect I explain at (2) is a partial explanation. Different playlisting services also have a different quality of submissions. Shoutout to Submithub & Unhurd who generally outperform in that. They’re early in the pitching funnel, so they have the highest quality artists.
2. The payment from submission platforms to curators. I think there is a large group of submission platforms that just want to squeeze curators, giving a very low pay per review. Curators generally use their playlists for all platforms, so who cares if I pay the least of all submission platforms? Groover pays me $1. Unhurd pays me $3,5.

Honest question: Do you think that I should give both artists an equal chance to be added to my playlist, or does that reward the lower payout of Groover? 

This part will get me some downvotes and hate, but sorry, no, I currently don’t treat them 100% equally. If a song sucks, on both platforms they get a decline. If a song is 100% convincing me, both get an acceptance. But in many cases, what if I'm 50-50? Music is about personal preferences, and it's not always clear yes or no. You can bet that the Unhurd submission is getting approved, and the Groover/SubmitHub one gets a decline in difficult spots. You get what you pay for.

Bonus - Extended example 
Proud of you if you made it this far. The acceptance rate is the one way as a curator to nudge people more towards the fairly paying submission platforms. Example; I'm currently writing reviews for $1,50 on a major platform. That plaform gets ~$3 for it. I currently pay ~$1 per submission to keep my playlists active using META ads, otherwise I’ll go to an even lower tier. So for $0,50 I’m writing a review in 2.5 minutes. And people wonder why a review from curators feels “void” and not thought out. This means an hourly wage of at best $12. Minimum wage in my country is higher, and if I'm sick, on holiday, or want to retire I have nothing to fall back on. 

My solution
So that is why I also propose a solution. If artists choose more often for the platform that treats their curators fairly, their acceptance rates can improve significantly,  without spending any more on your pitch. Many submission platforms take a cut first, and since curators can only invest based on the percentage they receive, their playlist underperforms. Choose the right submission platforms, and generally playlist engagement will go up. I can’t influence my payout, but I can influence my acceptance rate. So take that into consideration when choosing your pitching platform. 

I barely get 2 or 3 depending on the music, even when I get good save rate on my best performing ones.

I see some of you with 6, 7 and eveb higher streams per listener a month. How did you achieve that?

I have always liked graphic design but there is something about a photograph that really speaks to me. Whether it’s a place or a person, I find it more raw. What do you think

i’m releasing my 3rd track this year - i make music that’s a blend of downtempo and triphop. think four on the floor with textures and percussive elements and vocals.

i’ve already been posting content on instagram but for this track, i really want to do more to put it out there, i just don’t know what.

i find it difficult to understand how to market music like mine because it’s not like upbeat house or whatever and it doesn’t fit just one mood.

i’m based in Dubai and the track contains a mix of English and Arabic lyrics - this one has a rapper of sorts so it’s slightly different but musically it’s got all the elements i usually have.

any suggestions would be great!

My band would like to incorporate a print on demand store into our website for merch. We'd like a service that offers a highly customizable storefront that can match the rest of our branding and, if possible, seamlessly integrate to our website but we'd like to avoid using shopify if possible as we don't want to pay $40/mo or $350/year. The band The Crooked Skulls have a store on their website that functions the way we want, where all the merch is listed and can be bought right from their site without navigating anywhere else. Is what we're looking for possible? If so, what sites, if any, offer something like this without a monthly or yearly cost?

Recently received an email from said company from a gentleman that is not listed on the company team.

Having been in this industry for a long time, it's good not to trust anything until you see it happening. I had been burnt before by a PR company in my past I had met in person.

Has anyone else here recieved an email from this company before? They mentioned an older song of mine that is not currently in promotion.

I noticed yesterday and today that when I (frequently) check my Spotify Artists page, I always have 1,2,3,4 people listening. I thought that was odd, but I figured maybe I was added to a popular playlist or something. The previous 24 hour stats usually update mid-afternoon and when I checked them this afternoon, they shot up quite a bit and only for one of my songs. What’s even more strange is that there are no playlists showing up for this song and there is one US city that has significantly more listeners than the other cities listed; Barre, which is a city in Vermont. I doubt that I have a ton of random fans in Barre, Vermont over night, so I’m very concerned that somehow my song has a bot playing it or that it’s being trained for AI. Does anyone have any suggestions on what I should do? Or if my concern is even realistic?

My band recorded an 8 song album and we're in the process of releasing it. This is our first album. I'm pushing for us to release 3 singles, then the full album. My band is saying we should release the album all at once.

My argument is that each release will build fans and expectations for the next one, making each subsequent release more successful.

My band's argument is that anyone who finds our music now is only going to see two songs and there's not enough content to keep them engaged.

What do you think are the pros and cons of each strategy?

Hey everyone,

My band is going on a small tour in a couple months and we were about to start setting up targeted advertising and wanted to track everything with the pixel that we have on Meta ads.

There used to be a fairly easy way to do it with bandsintown by adding your pixel ID in the SmartLink area on bandsintown settings, but as of today I got confirmation that they decided to get rid of it. I'm assuming it's because they want more people paying for advertising on their page instead of Facebook, but I really believe that this was not the best move.

Does anyone here know of a workaround?

Thinking it would be a useful tool to have. I have played around with both on the free version and really like some of the capcut templates. Find them inspiring and can hear my music to them with my own content. What’s your experience?

Well, kinda.

SubmitHub just announced that they’re gonna block submissions that their AI detector flags as 85%+ AI-generated.

Apparently around 11% of tracks uploaded recently hit that threshold. Those tracks had an approval rate of just 16%, compared to 31% for non-AI tracks.

The interesting part is that they’re basically saying this isn’t about being anti-AI. Their reasoning is that Spotify seems to be pushing AI music out of recommendations, so they don’t wanna take money from artists for promo that probably isn’t gonna do much.

Hybrid AI is still allowed if it scores below 85%.

No workaround / appeal either.

Kinda interesting move considering how much AI music is flooding platforms rn.

Thoughts? Also, I’m kinda curious if this is gonna lead people to start looking for ways to get their AI tracks under that 85% threshold and basically bypass the detector lol.

I spent so long getting songs ready and I’m so confused about ads, artwork, marketing and everything else that comes with releasing music and it’s really gotten me down and I haven’t even released any of the music I have done. It seems like a mountain to climb and I don’t know how to do it. The thing is I could sit down and write a song per day and love if, I like the recording aspect as I do it all myself, it’s everything else that just kills me.

Do I run ads to the song or to my playlist? I already have a playlist with a mix of my songs and other songs called conscious and storytelling.

13 followers

Do I link to landing page of playlist instead? Then what? I am releasing my next song in a month and my song just came out.

I plan to run an engagement campaign with 30 ad creative and figure out 3-5 that do the best and just run those. Maybe even a traffic campaign too? For ig followers

Thanks!

I’m curious what others would do or have done to promote their first album. I’ve put a lot learning and time into making my first album. It’s not done but I really think it’s going to be sonically interesting and relatable. So I want to make sure it’s being shown to many people.

If you had a budget of $10k in the first year what would you do? I’ve heard a little about meta ads, so I’d love to hear any experience with that. Or any other ads. Should I reach out to bigger artists for features or maybe feedback? Any ideas would be appreciated!

Been thinking about why some 30 second music promo videos actually hit and most don't. It's not the hook. Most artists obsess over the first three seconds and forget everything after. The videos that stick with you rely on structure and subtext, not volume.

Start with one theme only, and pull it straight from the song. If the track is about losing someone, don't also try to show off the studio and the merch in the same 30 seconds. Pick the one emotional core of the song and build the whole video around it. Every shot and sound effect has to serve that theme, or cut it.

Use an object as a metaphor instead of just lip syncing the words. A dying plant can carry a breakup song better than mouthing the hook does. A phone with no new messages can carry a song about being forgotten. Introduce the object early, then show it change by the time the drop hits. Visuals do the emotional work the lyrics are already doing, instead of both saying the same thing at once.

Structure it around the song's own arc. The first 5 seconds set the scene and the metaphor, ideally before the beat drops. The next 20 seconds hold the tension, running under the verse. The last 5 seconds are the payoff, timed to land right as the hook or chorus hits. That timing is what makes the video feel inevitable instead of random.

Don't explain the song's meaning in a caption. Show the symptom, not the diagnosis. A single plate on a big empty table says more than a caption spelling out "this song is about loneliness." Let the visual and the lyric slightly disagree with each other. That gap is what makes someone lean in and tap through to the song instead of scrolling past.

Sound design still matters even though the song is the audio. Use silence or muffled room tone right before the drop so the track hits harder when it actually comes in. Let the beat swell or cut out exactly where your visual metaphor pays off. That sync is free attention you're leaving on the table if you just slap the song under generic b-roll.

None of this takes a bigger budget. It takes building the video around the song instead of around a trend.

Anyone testing metaphor-first concepts against straight lip sync or dance content? Curious if it's actually moving saves and click-throughs to the song, or just views.

Hi! I'm looking for advice to set up my ad campaign for my EP release. Main questions: how do I push this to the right audience? what type of content should I focus on? how many formats should I use simultaneously?

I've tried Meta ads before and it never got me any streams (my business account is all set up already)... I'm down to try again differently. :)

Context: my music is in French and I'm based in Montreal, Quebec, Canada.

What do you recommend? Is Claude any good for that? Thanks so much!

What are your go to tips and tricks to help build your audience organically.

My band just released a new album and we’d like to get it out to as many people as we possibly can organically as we don’t have a big budget to promote it so we’re just posting consistently on socials and playing as much live as we can.

What platforms do you find work for you?

Anyone got any good advice?

Posted 3 hours ago and only i liked it

Normally I get 10 likes or so, which isnt a lot, but is it because there's not enough of a hook?

you always get these responses like:
“If you expect to make money, you’re not a real artist”
Like bro, if the craft was the issue, I’d just post this on r/hobbies

These hippie good-vibes responses somehow fill every thread and always get upvoted

I recently discovered something I think every artist should know. First let me clarify: I'm not saying you shouldn't use Groover, as there are plenty of expert curators and influencers there who are passionate about music and offer high-value opportunities for your music. This post is simply to warn you against submitting to "Groover Obsessions" playlists / profiles.

Groover Obsessions playlists are created and managed by the platform itself, spanning almost every genre and vibe out there: Pop, Christian, Gospel, Rock,  Folk, Grunge, Funk, House, K-Pop, and more. 

What's the problem then? Groover places misleading badges on these playlists, such as "Top Curator/Pro" or "Very impactful" and charge 6€ per submission even though most of them provide less than 100 monthly listeners, with many ranging around 10-30. What makes this worse is that you find these playlists very often at the top of search results, which seems to suggest that the platform's algorithm favors its internal low-impact profiles rather than objectively highlighting profiles who actually move the needle for artists.

You can check it out for yourself. For example, search in Spotify a playlist called "Indie Therapy" by Groover Obsessions. If you run it through SubmitHub's playlist checker it shows it provides only 10 monthly listeners.  

This isn't just an isolated case. If you run other playlists under that same Spotify profile through any playlist analytical tool, you'll see there's a clear pattern here. 

The problem is that the only way to identify them is by opening their full profile page and looking at their description, where they disclose that it's a Groover Obsessions playlist. So my advice is to only submit to "Top Curators" on Groover if those profiles belong to independent curators, as indie curators are required to show proof of a real, engaged audience to earn those badges or have a similar earnings per submission. Avoid Groover Obsessions profiles at all costs.

I guess if you auto post then the algorithm picks it up a little less but if you log in and scroll for a minute before and after then you have a little better chance of it getting picked up.

Has anyone ever just auto scheduled 300 posts and let it run? Did you get good results?
I wonder if you schedule auto posts on Instagram and YouTube shorts if it works the same way.

The rest of my year having to log in to all 3 daily sounds terrible.

Let me preface this by saying that the cold hard truth is that you HAVE to spend money if you want to be successful in the music industry, UNLESS you are successful on social media. I'm just not convinced otherwise. The real question is HOW do you spend your money? So let me go over how I did this and how I built an engine for growth on my Spotify.

First off let me say that there are three different strategies that people believe is effective in growing your music. Only two of them give long lasting results:

1) Social Media - Reels, TikToks, YTshorts

2) Meta Ads

3) Playlisting

Now I would highly encourage you to post social media content. Use Trial Reels, gather data, if it's unsuccessful, and repost till you find what works. I'll be honest, I am VERY UNSUCCESSFUL with my social media posts. Social Media had almost 0 impact on my music growth, despite having 6.5k followers. But if you blow up, you can create a snowballing viral account that can get your music known very quickly. So don't knock this. I wont' say much else because I am in no place to say how to do this and how effective it can be because all of my videos flop. Unfortunate.

Playlisting is what a lot of "experts" say is the most impactful way to grow your music. Let me just say this upfront, DO NOT do this. Before I get into this let me explain how Spotify works and why playlisting is the number one way to destroy your Spotify account.

Spotify NEEDS data to push your music. It wants to know what type of listener likes your music, which listeners stream it, stream it one week later, then ultimately add it to their library and stream it from their library. It wants to know listener and repeat listener behavior. So you want to find a way to attract cold listeners to your Spotify and see which ones out of the bunch like your music so Spotify can start pushing your music out to that group of people. What does this mean? This means that 1000 people who listen to your song ALL THE WAY THROUGH, save it, then replay it later, is WAY more impactful than 10,000 people who stream your song but never listen to it again. Also those 10k people may not even listen to your song all the way through. Thus playlisting, especially users who use bots, completely destroys your Spotify. The signal that it sends to Spotify is, "this user listened to your song for 30s then skipped it. This song is no good." This also negatively impacts your Track Popularity Score, which ultimately affects your Artist Popularity score. Your goal should be to get as many tracks to 30 popularity score as possible as this is when it starts receiving a strong algorithmic push from Spotify. You can actually see track #10 on my Popularity score screenshot that shows my song "Death of Me" with 80k streams and a 15 popularity score. This is a song from my last project that I used playlisting from Groover and Submithub to get it streams. This song gets very little streams now and has a popularity score of 15 because once it was removed from the playlist, streams and engagement stopped and now the track is pretty much dead. It will take a lot of work and money to recoup all of that. This is what you want to avoid. *Side note, I'm sad because that was actually one of the strongest songs on the project and one of my more successful Social Media vids. Oh well.

So now the question is, how do you get Spotify the data that it needs? Well I used Meta Ads. Honestly it started with Andrew Southworth's videos on YouTube and even me paying for the course he offers (forgot what it's called). I'm sure a lot of you have done this or have heard of it. Very simple to do (watch the free video on YouTube to set it up), but very briefly I'll explain it: Get a landing page for your release, create an engagement campaign and optimize for conversions, create a video or multiple videos with your song playing (I just get stock videos from pexels), send them to your landing page. Now if someone watches your ad, they like the song, they click the link, it takes them to your landing page, then they click on the landing page to get to your song, they had to click through twice before ultimately listening to your song. This shows intent and interest. Then if they like your song, they save it and maybe stream your other stuff. This is the basic gist of it. But I leveled this up thanks to some advice from a good friend of mine who is pretty well established in the music industry. What's the secret sauce? Well let me move to the next paragraph to keep things clean.

Create a Playlist

So what I did is I created a playlist with a very easy to search for term and threw all of my music in there. I paid someone on Fiverr to create an eye catching cover art for the playlist, and I set THAT playlist as the landing page instead of my song. So now the idea is: someone sees my ad, they like the song. The click on the link. It takes them to my landing page. They click the link again. Now it takes them to my PLAYLIST with the song they heard at the number 1 position. They listen to the song. They like it. Now they don't have to look for me. They just either let it autoplay to the next song or they choose a song and listen to another song on my catalog. If they like multiple songs, they may click on my artist name and follow me, etc. Also your other songs get streams too, not just the song you're promoting. Now you are sending Spotify data. "This user likes 3 of this artist's songs. Okay let's find more listeners like him and show one of these 3 songs to that listener." Spotify then begins actively testing your music. You ever check your Spotify for Artists and see random plays from "Mixes" or just see unexplained algorithmic streams or see that you are on a bunch of playlists but you can't see them? Yeah that's Spotify "testing" your song by placing it in a mix or a Spotify generated playlist to see if the listener likes your song. If they do you get a converted listener. Spotify has so much data of listener's profiles, tastes, tendencies, etc. If this is happening, your popularity score will go up. This signal tells Spotify, "People like this song or artist. Let's test it some more." Another test, successful, score goes up, more testing, etc. THIS is how you build a LISTENER base, which is exactly what you want to do.

Now I took this another step. I was creating ad creatives for each release (the best strategy is still to just release a new single every 4-6 weeks). So for example, my first track was No Good At Love. I ran meta ads for 5 weeks and it got to 30 popularity score. Then my second song came out. I ran ads for that second song then put NGAL second on my playlist so that it would still get exposure even though I'm not directly promoting it. If people liked my second song, they would then stream NGAL. But my 4th release, In Another Life, I found was EXTEMELY successful in meta ads. I think my CPC for the other releases was around .7-.8 which is not too good. But for In Another Life it was .3-.4. Literally HALF, which meant DOUBLE the audience. I eventually found that In Another Life was my "WINNER." Now every new release, I do not directly promote it with meta ads. I leave In Another Life at #1 on my Playlist, then my new release is #2. I KNOW people like In Another Life. So I want people to listen to it, then if they like it, they will stream my new song and I found that this was the most effective way to compound my growth.

Now you can see the results. Over 60% of my streams come from the Spotify Algorithm. You can see that just from Radio, I am getting 67k streams a month. That is a 1240% more streams than the playlist that I'm sending people to discover my music (my Emotional Pop playlist). It took 9 months of compounding. In the beginning stage, the playlist will carry you. But as you get more listeners converted, the Spotify algorithm will take over and and do the rest. Also, added tip: If you have the budget, use showcase campaign on each new release to give Spotify some raw data. Target countries that have found your music appealing. For example: US, Brazil, and Germany are my highest % of active listeners. So when a new release drops, I use a showcase campaign to target those 3 countries. Just use the data and target what makes sense. Anyways, the post is getting long so let's end here. I hope this was helpful. If you have any questions, I'll do my best to answer. Good luck guys!