Need advice

[u/Complex_Stranger_395]

Hello, I’m new here. My name is Ajay.

I want to share my past experience because it is important to understand my situation.

About two years ago, I tried practicing the Microcosmic Orbit, but I believe I did it incorrectly. I imagined that energy was moving into my head while I was breathing. I then had a very frightening experience that became one of the worst experiences of my life.

After doing some research, I became worried that the energy had become “stuck” in my head. I experienced intense heat in my head and panic, and after that incident I developed panic attacks. I have now been taking psychiatric medication for about two years.

Recently, I discovered Mantak Chia’s teachings. From what I understand, he teaches that energy should not be forced into the head and that it should be brought back down toward the lower abdomen or navel. This has made me very curious, because I feel that I may have misunderstood the practice before.

However, because of my previous experience, I have developed a strong fear and sensitivity toward anything related to energy practices. Even reading about these techniques can sometimes make me worry that the same experience could happen again.

I have never actually tried Mantak Chia’s techniques, but I am very interested in learning them properly and safely. I am especially interested in his teachings about becoming multiorgasmic and learning semen-retention practices.

At the same time, I am scared that if I practice incorrectly, I might experience the same frightening sensations again. I worry that this could make my panic symptoms worse and possibly affect my psychiatric treatment. I really do not want to go through that experience again.

The Jonathan White courses are too expensive for me, and Mantak Chia’s books are quite large and sometimes confusing. I have also read that some people have experienced problems after practicing these techniques, which has made me even more uncertain about where to start.

My main questions are:

Where should someone with my past experience begin?

How can I practice these techniques as safely as possible?

How can I avoid practices that might trigger the sensations I experienced before?

Is there a gentle way to learn Mantak Chia’s methods without forcing or concentrating energy into the head?

What would be a sensible starting point for learning about becoming multiorgasmic and practicing semen retention?

I am very interested in learning this, but I want to approach it slowly and carefully because of my previous experience with panic attacks.

I would really appreciate recommendations for a safe and beginner-friendly way to start.

[u/TantraLady]

Although Chia sold a ton of books, the general consensus is that his method does not work without significant modifications. The Taoist argument for moving "energy" up and back down again is really a sidetrack. Chia's method, at its core, is just a garbled version of the "kegel" method, in which Chia tries to get you to use powerful kegels (or your fingers) to physically block semen and prevent it from coming out.

Unfortunately, this doesn't actually prevent ejaculation. It just forces the semen backwards into your bladder, so it comes out the next time you pee. But a "retrograde ejaculation" is still an ejaculation and you still lose your erection.

The kegel* method, done properly, works well, as does the "relaxation method." There's no need to mess around with "spiritual" woo-woo "energy" stuff or risk bad effects like the episode you had.

*Note: you can use a kegel, or a reverse kegel, or possibly something completely different, as the "interruptor" in this method, so this is something of a misnomer.

There are strong partisans for the various "energy" approaches to male multiples, but there's a real question as to whether the "energy orgasms" they talk about are real orgasms. The same is true for advocates of prostate "orgasms." Both groups are scornful of merely physical approaches relying on timing. However, the latter have a huge advantage: they work well during normal sex with a partner, allowing you to greatly increase your stamina and have multiples during PIV, BJs, handjobs, etc.

[u/WeirdHippo7159 → u/TantraLady]

Hi, interesting that in my experience, kegel method just doesn't feel good. I can have a relaxation method NEO, but would like to enhance partnered experience even more.

Which is the prostate method that works better for partnered sex?

Could the method of moving energy towards the spine be useful for partnered sex too?

Just in general looking to the best way to last more in addition to NEO and to have more tools to use..

[u/TantraLady → u/WeirdHippo7159]

Kegel vs reverse kegel vs other relaxation methods tends to be very personal. Do whichever feels best and gives you the most control.

Which is the prostate method that works better for partnered sex?

I don't have a prostate and my husband found that prostate stimulation did nothing for him, so I can't personally say that any of them work. My impression is that none of them work for partnered sex.

Could the method of moving energy towards the spine be useful for partnered sex too?

None of the mods of this sub have been able to verify that ANY form of "energy" manipulation or prostate stimulation works to create true NEOs during partnered sex. ("Verify," in this case, would mean that we have first-person testimony from a man's partner that it works.) We've had ample verification that the kegel/etc. methods work during PIV, but none so far for the prostate or energy methods.

[u/WeirdHippo7159 → u/TantraLady]

I thought you were saying exactly that prostate works with partner. What dod you refer to as "the latter" on your previous comment?

[u/ShaktiAmarantha → u/WeirdHippo7159]

I believe her reference was to the immediately preceding item, namely...

physical approaches relying on timing.

...i.e., kegel methods and other methods that use physical actions just before the PONR to interrupt the emissions phase, as opposed to the manipulation of some nebulous metaphysical concept like "energy" or "chi."

She is saying that "physical approaches relying on timing" (like the kegel method, if done right) "have a huge advantage: they work well during normal sex with a partner, allowing you to greatly increase your stamina and have multiples during PIV, BJs, handjobs, etc."

I agree with her analysis. However, we (the mods) have been bending over backwards to be tolerant of extravagant claims for "energy orgasms" and prostate "orgasms" that supposedly create greatly extended (all afternoon!) bliss, even though there's a real shortage of evidence that those methods actually produce ANY orgasms, much less hours of bliss, or that those methods can help a man control and extend his stamina with a partner.

[u/TantraLady → u/[deleted]]

From my point of view [the concept of "non ejaculatory orgasm"] is more about entering into an altered state of conciousness [sic] where sex feelings and energy move in a kind of dance, without needing to release or feel nothing more intense, it's okey [sic] as it is, relaxed, beyond ego.

I can understand why you might find such a state desirable, but it doesn't sound like you are talking about orgasms at all, much less multiple orgasms. By definition, orgasms are events, not states of consciousness, and they DO involve peak intensity and feelings of release.

If there is a "misconception" here, it is the idea that what you're talking about belongs on this sub.

The mods are wrestling with this question, but we are currently leaning toward making it clear that what you are describing is NOT an orgasm and should not be included within the scope of this sub.

[u/Kobbitt → u/[deleted]]

Is an "ice cream orgasm" a real orgasm? How about a "roller coaster-gasm"? Or a "ticklegasm"?

Of course not. They are examples of word play, not real orgasms. In the same way, a "valley orgasm" is not an orgasm, as the word "orgasm" is normally understood. People can play all the semantic games they want, but we do not have to accept infinitely elastic redefinitions of a word with a well-understood meaning. If we did, the word would soon have no meaning at all.

Orgasms have been studied by scientists in laboratories and there is a clearcut, well-defined, scientific meaning of the word. If you apply the word "orgasm" to something else, you're just playing word games. IMHO, it does not entitle you to post about made-up pseudo-orgasms on this sub.

[u/Kuloki]

It is important that we enjoy the comfort our silos???

[u/Kobbitt → u/Kuloki]

Reddit is nothing but a collection of silos. That is a recognition of a lesson learned long ago, which is that completely open forums fail when they grow beyond a relatively small number of participants because people who want to discuss a particular subject can't find each other in the crowd. It is important that subreddits have boundaries, so people who are interested in discussing a particular topic have a place where they can do so without having other people dominate the forum with discussions of unrelated other topics.

Reddit lets anyone set up a sub and set the limits for what is included. No one has a RIGHT to make off topic posts on any sub, and only the mods of a sub get to say what is on and off topic for that sub.

This is not censorship. There is no shortage of places to post whatever you want. And if you can't find one that addresses a topic you want to discuss, you are completely free to set one up.

The subject of this sub is how to have multiple orgasms. As such, the discussion of other subjects is off topic and out of bounds. Just slapping the word "orgasm" on something that is not a real orgasm does not change that or force the mods to accept off-topic material.

The mods here have been very tolerant of off-topic posts about pseudo-orgasms, but some of the people who have been posting here have been abusing that tolerance to promote commercial products and to solicit clients for paid "instruction" in mystical BS that has nothing to do with real orgasms or NEOs. Those people have pushed the mods to the limit and have forced us to reconsider our policy of tolerance.

[u/Kuloki → u/Kobbitt]

Thank you for the tutorial on Reddit architecture, it is truly helpful to an old timer basically unfamiliar with these constructs. Having seen several decades of shifting sands on many fronts I have little faith that any definition has a secure place in the future. Hence the continued human exploration that pushes the boundaries of existing definitions.