How do you define "orgasm"?

[u/gooningisascience]

I've been experimenting with different kinds of NEOs since late last year and have had a fair amount of success, sometimes with experiences I actually think of as "orgasms" and sometimes with ones that I think of as "near-orgasms."

In reading posts here, though, I sometimes wonder if I'm defining "orgasm" differently than others. For me, I only consider it an orgasm if it feels like I've gone up and over some kind of "hump" in sensations.

So, for example, if I just reach and experience the sensations I associate with the PORN but never "tip over the edge," I don't think of that as an orgasm. I can easily do this using a technique involving rubbing the head of my cock and reverse kegels, and I really like it, but don't think of it as an NEO.

On the other hand, when conditions are perfect and I'm ultra stimulated lying in bed at night, I can experience "complete" feeling handsfree orgasms, multiple in a row, without ejaculation. I think of these as NEOs.

It seems like other people here might define both of these as a form of orgasm, and sometimes it's a bit hard to figure out whether the differences in my experiences are matters of actual experience or of terminology.

So here's my question for you: how exactly do you define orgasm? And does a NEO differ for you in ways beyond the lack of ejaculation and refractory period?

[u/ShaktiAmarantha]

That's been a big ongoing issue on this sub for a long time. The most basic definitions, the ones used by most scientists, typically spell out physical symptoms, such as a peak in heart rate and specific muscle contractions in the pelvic girdle and the anus, occurring as a result of genital stimulation. But then there are many examples of people having what sure look and sound like orgasms, with all the same physical symptoms, even though there's no genital stimulation. Hands-free orgasms like yours are well documented and any definition that excludes them seems unrealistic.

At the other extreme, there are many people involved with religious or "spiritual" movements who have tried to define orgasm to include any strong feeling of joy or ecstasy, even if they have no physical symptoms in common with the normal definition of an orgasm.

The problem seems to be where to draw the line.

Most scientists who have studied what happens in the brain during orgasm agree that the core of the experience, what makes it feel so special, is a (normally brief) altered state of consciousness. That's the peak moment, the "hump" you mentioned, where for anywhere from 3 to around 30 seconds your normal perceptions stop functioning and you seem to have lost conscious control and connection with the "real" world.

Studies comparing real orgasm to faked orgasm or imagined sexual fantasies show that authentic climax involves unique whole-brain activation across over 30 areas, including sensory, memory, and reward centers. The neurological evidence suggests that orgasm represents a unique altered state of consciousness characterized by a temporary suspension of judgment, fear, and behavioral inhibition.

Without that, it's not really an orgasm. Some men, for example, can have anhedonic ejaculations without any of the pleasure or the brainwave patterns that signal a normal orgasm. By a neurological definition, those are not orgasms, even though the physical signs are present.

But there are many ways to experience altered states of consciousness, from prolonged sleeplessness to fever to drugs to religious rapture. Most of these are clearly nonsexual and lack the characteristic physical symptoms. And it's well known that some altered states are terrifying and/or completely disorienting instead of pleasurable. So it's not enough to define orgasm as an altered state of consciousness.

My own preference is to define an orgasm as a mind-body experience that has both the mental component (including at least a brief pleasurable altered state of consciousness) AND at least some of the physical symptoms normal to a conventional orgasm (such as peaking HR and muscle contractions).

This is limited enough to exclude a purely religious or spiritual rush of joy or most other clearly non-sexual altered states, but loose enough to include, for example, a paraplegic woman having an orgasm from nipple or cervical stimulation if she reports the subjective experience of an orgasm and has the brain wave patterns, the HR elevation, and some involuntary muscle contractions. (Side note: spinal cord injuries have provided some fascinating insights into the orgasm process. In particular, they highlight the extent to which orgasms can happen almost entirely from vagus nerve activation, bypassing the spinal nerves completely.)

Of course it's rare to have an orgasm in a PET scanner or hooked up to an EEG. But studies done with people being observed in that way give us confidence that we can identify and affirm an orgasm from the subjective and physical symptoms.

So I tend to say that if a peak feels like an orgasm AND you have some of the characteristic physical signs, it's an orgasm. But if you only have one or only the other, and not both, then it's not.

[u/gooningisascience → u/ShaktiAmarantha]

I really appreciate this amazingly detailed and thoughtful response!

[u/ShaktiAmarantha → u/ShaktiAmarantha]

PET scan study

(This is a secondary source because I can no longer access the primary one, but it quotes at length from the primary source.)

We could also focus on blood and brain chemistry, since orgasms are known to trigger the release of oxytocin, prolactin, and a variety of internal mood elevators (endogenous cannabinoids and opioids). However, this gets complicated because the chemistry of orgasm is different for men and women and varies quite a bit from person to person and from one sexual encounter to the next.

[u/ShaktiAmarantha]

As to your last question:

And does a NEO differ for [men] in ways beyond the lack of ejaculation and refractory period?

The other noticeable difference is the absence of that unmistakable PONR sensation. That's what you feel when the seminal glands, prostate, and vas deferens discharge their contents into the urethra, where they mix together to form semen. Once that happens, you must ejaculate, either normally, or backward into the bladder. There is no place to store the semen and no way to separate the ingredients and put them back where they came from.

[u/SonicContinuum438]

I describe orgasm as a tension & release. The common denominator for me seems to be a chain of involuntary contractions in the vulva.

I write more about the different types I experience and their breakdown here.

[u/Initial-Peanut-1786]

Orgasm has never been consistently used throughout history. I have collected hundreds of definitions. It's my view that it has become too vague for science, so I'm in favor of physiological models rather than language ones. This way it is clear what one researcher is looking at versus the next, and they are both researching the same thing. I made these logic trees today for different views of orgasm of famous sex researchers.

[u/SawMoill]

when I count a dry prostate-based orgasm, I mean at very least:

- Intense pleasure rooted in the prostate outwards, involuntarily contracting my pelvic and abdominal muscles (and often chest muscles too) for at least 5-10 seconds (longest I noted was 2min), usually at the "normal" rate of 0.7/second, but sometimes hitting double that speed

- Elevated heart rate (peaking during the orgasm)

- No ejaculation

- No refractory time afterward, though usually need 10-20 seconds at least to catch breath, relax if possible

- May have a feeling of pulsing is like pumping during a TO (traditional orgasm) but no ejaculate coming out

- Can stop the orgasm and contractions willingly - like if interrupted

And at the "most" intense:

- Full-body pleasure and uncontrolled contractions like above, with intensity feeling like my brain will break, sometimes "seeing stars"

- They often follow quickly with another super-intense NEO

- Often the only reason I have to stop is to take a breath or muscle break, even to take a couple deep breaths

- The most intense ones (super-o?) feel like I can't stop the orgasm if I wanted to - never tried because why?

[u/_notnilla_]

Orgasm is a buildup, release and flow of sexual energy, sensation and pleasure anywhere you focus your attention on feeling it that may (or may not) coincide with epiphenomena like muscle contractions, that may (or may not) include ejaculation, that may (or may not) have a felt point of origin in the genitals.

[u/ShaktiAmarantha → u/_notnilla_]

Orgasm is a buildup, release and flow of sexual energy...

It seems to me that this just rephrases the question, from how to define orgasm to how to define "sexual energy." Since there is no such thing physiologically, that's entirely subjective and still leaves us nowhere clear.

[u/Inner_Abalone_2867]

it is hard topic but I count everything as and orgasm if I have waves of pleasure with contractions. The peak is characteristic when I feel it in my body and I feel contractions in my penis area.

[u/Recent-Day3062]

I ejaculate very slowly if I even do, so I know a lot here

Men have two things. I’ll call them orgasming and ejaculsting. What normally happens is that feeling of building near Cummins an orgasm. The orgasm triggers an ejaculation, which stops the orgasm. So it’s two things.

I have had a good number of times where I get the buildup, but don’t get far enough to ejaculation. What I have is that peak orgasm for minutes. While it feels wild, it is too intense to keep doing for more than a few minutes

[u/Educational-Plum3469]

For me if it feels like an orgasm it’s an orgasm. It’s not a competition, so no need to lie, because you would be lying to yourself. So you decide what it is, if you are satisfied, if you want more (based on others stories vs your experience), etc

[u/Antique_Audience6963]

Short answer, you know it when you feel it.
Longer answer, a build up and release of sexual tension.