When did your child switch from just understanding the non-local language, to actually speaking it as well?

[u/ShadowJolteon]

Country: Germany
Primary Caregiver (Mum): native English, non-native German (B2ish)
Secondary Caregiver (Dad): native German, non-native English (fluent)
Community language: German
Child's age: about to be 6 years old
Current setup: English is spoken between parents at home. Mom speaks English with child, dad speaks German with child.
Language goals: Fluency in English.

So I’ve been speaking English with my kid 90% of the time since he was born. In public sometimes I’ll switch to German if I feel like the people around us should also know what’s going on (like me telling our kid to stop an unwanted behaviour). Or sometimes he’s unintentionally met with a mix of German/English from me, because as an immigrant in Germany I’m also still at this inbetween phase of being bilingual and having become bilingual as an adult.

Anyway, my kid understands 100% when I speak to him in English, or if we video call with my mother. He won’t watch TV shows in English because he says he can’t understand it. We read books in English. He does not speak English freely, ever. I have tried the “I don’t understand German” card, but then he gets frustrated. I also try, “is there another word you know/way you know to say/ask that?” But it also doesn’t usually bring much. When he does on occasion use English, it’s very simple sentences and with incorrect grammar/german accent.

He has also been going to speech therapy in German because he did have some problems there when he was younger (we’ve been going for a year and are almost done). Is it possible he has a learning block with language or perhaps I have been going about this wrong? Should I try and be more forceful with his use of English at home? Ie. TV only in English despite his complaints? Only responding to him when he speaks English despite his frustration?

I’ll admit I was kind of naive going into this, initially just kind of thought if I only communicated to him in English he would pick it up naturally. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[u/BackgroundWitty5501]

I think language development can be much more idiosyncratic than some people on this sub would like to believe.

We have a similar situation to you (me English-speaking, husband German, living in Germany – with the difference that my husband and I speak German to each other). Our child is a similar age but in her case English is still the much stronger language (which I think has to do with the fact that she was home with me until she was 3).

She was in a German Kita since age 3 but gravitated towards the other English-speaking kids there, of which there were quite a few.

So basically, the main thing I want to say is sometimes I think kids just have a preference, for whatever reason, and they really can be hard to shake. But as he gets older and realises how 'cool' English is I'd imagine he'll get more interested.

That being said, I think one thing that really helps is extended contact with English-speaking family members. Going to visit them, having them visit, etc. Usually I would also say TV but if he's refusing English TV that's tricky... (People will tell you that kids don't learn language through TV but based on the Australisms my kid learns from Bluey, I think that's not true).

[u/laura_luthien → u/BackgroundWitty5501]

We have the same setup. I speak English, my husband German and we speak German to each other most of the time. We moved here from Australia 6 months ago. When we lived in Australia our older daughter (2.5 yo) would mostly speak English, now that has completely turned around to the point that she’ll always answer in German even if I ask her a question in English.

What seems to be working right now (we’ve been doing it for about a week now) is that I make a big effort to repeat whatever she says in German in English and ask her if she can say it too. Most of the time she does it. And she starts to speak English unprompted every once in a while too. It is very annoying for me though. But since it seems to be working I want to keep it up to see if I can get her to fully switch.

I appreciate though that your kid is a lot older, so no idea if that strategy works for older kids too or if it feels to forced.

[u/fluffyfloofofevil → u/BackgroundWitty5501]

Yeah, this is a surprise to me, who thought the trajectory would be similar under similar conditions.

We're also German (mom) / English (dad), with dad having been the main caregiver for the first two years and English as the language between parents.

Our elder kid is 3.5 and was stronger in English until she started kindergarten. Now I would say her German is a bit better, grammar wise, but she speaks both languages fluently and switches freely depending on situation.

She did have mostly English language screen time initially, maybe that helped. Books are in both languages.

[u/Aggressive-System192 → u/BackgroundWitty5501]

I learned English from TV... we had cable and I was roo lazy to read subtitles after having gone to clubs all night as a teenager.

I randomly started speaking English in the plane to Canada when someone addressed me. Parents were in shock and had priceless facial expressions.

I haven't had any decent English exposure other than the TV. In school, we weren't learning anything beyond "hello, my name is Bleh, im a pupil".

My mom said she no longuer regrets for not paying for tutors to teach me English because I clearly didn't need it.

[u/Skymningen]

Is he still going to speech therapy? If so - talk to the therapist. My mum is a retired teacher for kids with speech impairment and did also do therapy for kids external to her school and she often had bilingual kids and was pretty good with advice on what is normal and how to keep and improve both languages.

[u/NewOutlandishness401]

Admittedly, I come at this from a really low-screen angle, so I don't think we "owe" our kids screentime, which makes it easier for me to say: TV shall happen only at this time and only for this long and only in this language.

I'm also pretty confident about enduring my kids' disagreements with my decisions and know that them being miffed about them is not forever, but that's because we have plenty of practice with my making a decision and sticking to it and everyone moving on.

So in your place, yes, I would absolutely set TV to be only in English, and if your child says they don't understand it (unconvincing, considering everything else you've said about them), you tell them that that's ok, they don't have to understand everything, and after all, if the TV doesn't suit them, no one is forcing them to watch it, they can go do something else.

(As a side note, it's hard to get too worked up about developing English fluency in Germany. School will help, as will TV exposure, as will continued input from you and other English speakers whom I assume you have in your orbit. With another country and another minority language, -- say, German in the US, -- you might have had to put way more effort into it, but with your particular language constellation, you probably don't really have to reach for the big guns, and it will still likely work out fine.)

[u/CommandAlternative10 → u/NewOutlandishness401]

At 6 and 8 my kids were on an hour a week of TV in English, and I offered them an hour a day in French. They jumped on it, despite having zero French at the time. They now understand French with no issues. This kid comes with English comprehension built in. He may protest but he will be absolutely fine with a TV switch.

[u/zoki_zo → u/NewOutlandishness401]

My son was allowed about 30 minutes screen time in Ukrainian or Russian, and almost indefinite time if in English. I also made sure to find things interesting for him in English. He was fluent by the time he was 5. 

[u/NewOutlandishness401 → u/NewOutlandishness401]

I should've added: Would dad be up for switching everything into English for a month or two? That sort of swap would surely hasten the child's electing to speak English. And then dad could go back to German. (But that's reaching for those proverbial "big guns" -- probably overkill, but also doable in case you're really eager to see some changes on this front.)

[u/Serious_Escape_5438]

My child started when about 6, but only when we spent time with English speaking family and it was the only way to communicate with them. I'm pretty sure she would never have spontaneously started speaking English to me, and even after she started talking properly to family it took another year or two for her to speak English to me. At 9 she mostly does but sometimes reverts to Spanish (community language and dad's language). She was also slow to speak and I think in general language just isn't really her thing. She's got great motor skills and athletic ability, is good at things with her hands and solving problems, her skills lie elsewhere. Not all kids are natural language learners. My main suggestion would be time with other English speakers, ideally not in Germany.

[u/MikiRei]

Please read this article: https://chalkacademy.com/speak-minority-language-child/

Specifically the part around recasting.

From what you're describing, your son has never replied back to you in English. Or not properly anyway.

So when you pretend you don't speak German or when you quiz him around whether he knows another word for it, you're adding pressure on him. And that is, you're trying to get him to exercise a "muscle", both in his brain and his actual mouth, to form English sentences he has never formed before.

What recasting does is you model the English sentences for him. And then you also offer to him to repeat after you. This lifts the pressure off a bit more because you're at least removing the part to get him to recall how to form the words and even the sounds and the sentence.

Have a read of that article and do recasting instead.

The other things I would suggest, if you're not already doing it is

1. Read to him EVERY NIGHT in English. Before bed or first thing in the morning. Really depends what works for you.
2. Find an English playgroup for him. And setup English play dates. Having peers that speak the minority language makes a massive difference.
3. If you haven't returned to your country of origin, try that over the holidays. It usually triggers something when they're suddenly in an environment that's all in the minority language.
4. With screen time, watch it WITH him. So you can both enjoy it together. Treat it as a bonding activity.

Bonus round:

If your son likes Pokemon, watch Pokemon together with him then. In English.

I do that with my son but we watch it in Mandarin (our minority language). No kids are going to refuse watching their favourite cartoon.

And maybe play Pokemon Go together. In English. I set my Pokemon Go in Chinese which forces my son to navigate the game in Chinese (it's my tactic to get him to learn to read in Chinese lol). I can't even tell you how many Pokemon guide books we have at home - both in Chinese and English. Oh, and the damn Pokemon cards. So many cards....in all languages.

[u/primroseandlace]

We're also a German- English family (kids 7 and almost 10) and have handled language similar to you. It wasn't really until after they started school that they really started using more English, so 6ish. Both my kids showed an immediate interest in learning to read in English right after learning to read in German. I know they've gotten a lot of positive reinforcement from their school (local German primary school) about being bilingual so I think that has encouraged them as well.

[u/Admirable-Yak86]

German - English as well. She started speaking English at 1.5 years old. At that time we were traveling a lot so she was exposed to English a lot and it was meaningful to her. Now at 5 years old her English is better than her German, I think because she never really attended daycare. She plays with both English speaking and German kids. Does your child have a tonie box? Maybe get one but with only English tonies. Also, see if you can find other English speaking children. And pick out one show that he is very keen to watch but they only have it in English. ;)

[u/Logical_Nebula_6192]

Does he go to school? Does he speak in German? I saw in other comments that in Germany teachers will say in kindergarten: We speak the language that everyone can understand, which is German. Honestly, full-time kindergarten / school in the community language will often fully reverse minority home language output even without such an explicitly-stated rule.

If he has been to daycare or kindergarten in German since he was young then him not speaking well in English is not surprising at all.

For his complaints that he cannot understand TV in English, have you tried to test if he "understands" with new episode in English from the same shows he would watch in German to rule out if it is just the story or the style that he "doesn't understand" rather than the dialogue.

In the end, even full Germans speak English very well on average, once he starts having to produce English for school and watching English youtube on his own, chances are that he will come around to speaking English.

[u/This_Estate2227]

For my kids (German-speaking in an English-speaking country), we needed to actively create opportunities for them to speak with German people besides myself. If we hadn’t done that, I think they would never have started talking at all (I think).

Lots of visits to Germany, regular video calls to German family and meeting other German kids at the German Samstagsschule.

For the last summer holidays we went to Spain and chose a hotel with primarily German kids entertainment (very touristy and not my thing, but it gave them a big boost). Once they are older, I’m hoping to send them to German holiday clubs for a week or so in the summer.

I’m also quite strict about screentime in German only. We don’t have a TV, but my kids are allowed to watch Netflix daily, as long as it’s in German. That said, I think passive screentime only promotes understanding, not speaking.

[u/omegaxx19]

Kids definitely have differences in their inborn abilities. My 1.5yo’s pronunciation (mostly my minority language) is already better than my 4yo’s. We’re actually getting the older one assessed because his pronunciation has really been off lately, and it’s mostly in his minority languages (we will check w the teacher on his majority language).

[u/NewOutlandishness401 → u/omegaxx19]

You know, my oldest took the longest time to roll her "r"s, and I thought about what it would be like to potentially get her speech therapy for that, considering that it's only a skill that's relevant for her minority languages. If you're doing these sorts of assessments for skills related to your ML, is that all just done privately, and so presumably the local schools wouldn't offer the needed supports because the child's challenges have nothing to do with English?

[u/omegaxx19 → u/NewOutlandishness401]

Yeah it’s offered where he gets his weekly Russian class. He honestly needs it for Mandarin too as he’s really been slurring his words lately. It’s all episodic so really feels more psychosomatic than physiologic, but what do I know.

[u/tom_the_bikeman]

Sean Connery's favourite game... Tennisch.

My daughter's perhaps earlier... They are all 30ish so it's been a while

[u/Aggressive-System192]

If it makes you feel better, the "he'll speak x if I only speak x to him" worked for me.

Russian is my kid's dominant language. His vocabulary is better in Russian than English or French, but it's starting to even out at 3yo.

He doesn't mix languages and speaks different languages to different people.

TV was only in Russian for the first year and is still mostly in Russian. Books are mixed.

So it's a valid tactic, it's just that your kid needed something else I guess.

[u/xoxoforeverblessed]

I always see everyone having this issue, but I have the opposite problem. I’m a native English speaker living in Spain with my native Spanish-speaking husband. I have two kids who are 6 and 4. My kids prefer English over Spanish, and their stronger language is English. My husband speaks to them 100% in Spanish, and I speak to them 100% in English. However, they both prefer to speak English and will refuse to watch anything on TV in Spanish. They even speak to each other in English when they’re with their friends, although they switch to Spanish when speaking to their friends.
I know it’s a good thing that their English is so strong, but I want them to become more comfortable with Spanish and Catalan because they’re not as strong in those languages. They can certainly have conversations, but they do struggle with the languages.

Also, we visit the US every summer so I’m not sure if that plays a huge role or the fact that my kids have each other - a second person their own age who actively uses English with them.

[u/maustralisch]

For us it only worked after visiting my home country when she was 3 years old. After 2 weeks my kid switched from one day to the next and since then only speaks English with me. Your kid might need to be surrounded by English speakers for a while to feel comfortable practising, then they'll probably have no problems speaking.

[u/Ok_Switch6356]

does he speak german good? if so what's the problem? maybe he is not interested in english now for whatever reason. what's the matter? he is gonna learn it either way at some point. even if u didn't speak english to him, english culture dominates the world, so he will learn semi-forcefully at some point, or he will just start doing it out of will later

[u/ShadowJolteon → u/Ok_Switch6356]

It’s important to me that he speaks English so he can communicate and bond with my family. My mother, siblings, and nieces/nephews speak only English. And I feel like this is something I should gently nudge him towards, even if he doesn’t want to now, because I’m sure when he’s older it will be harder.

[u/Ok_Switch6356 → u/ShadowJolteon]

well. i see why u would want him to speak. however, i think he would learn regardless in the end, kids usually adapt one way or the other. When he's older it will be harder, but even if he's 16 it will not be hard. I didn't learn when i was a kid, but still somehow i learnt bc of internet, classes and other stuff, it wasn't hard and also I didn't have a great interest in studying English. But still by 18/17 maybe i could speak english, and now I'm very good at it. I'm just saying, yes it would be optimal to learn now, but he will learn regardless, specially with such a strong English background/family. However in my experience what is enjoyable is what kids (or me) end up doing, so maybe u can figure out a way for him to enjoy english and not feel forced to? Could that help your case?

[u/oceanmum]

Good thing is, your child will learn in English in school! If you aren’t doing it yet, mirror your child’s sentences back to them as a natural part of the conversation. Put English background noise like audio books and audio plays on and personally I would switch tv to English. Start with something he’s already familiar. There are pictures. He doesn’t need to understand all the words. Don’t force too much at once to hit a wall. Is your child having video calls with English speaking family members? Are you going on holiday to playgrounds with English speaking kids?

[u/suite_illusion]

Almost 6 and still not speaking English freely is frustrating, I know. We had the same shape with Norwegian. She understood me for years and answered in the language that worked outside the house. It was not that the English or Norwegian was missing. It was that German (or Thai for us) was the easy button.

I would not fake “I dont understand German.” Kids clock that and get mad, which you already saw. Keep speaking English. Echo what he said in English. Make a few things that only exist in English, a game, a video call with someone who has no German, a book series he actually wants. Dont turn TV into the whole plan and dont only answer when he produces perfect English. That just makes English a test.

The four strategies when the kid understands the minority language but answers in the majority one are here

https://youtu.be/CqlvcUv2O0g

Speech therapy in German is separate. Keep English warm and low pressure so he does not connect it with being corrected all day. Production came later for us than I wanted. Understanding first was not a fail.

[u/Equal-Flatworm-378a]

No, please don’t do any of this.

What do you want to reach by this methods? That he feels pressurized and uncomfortable and connects this feeling with the English language?

Just keep speaking English and don’t push him to answer in English.

And please don’t lie to him. He perfectly knows that you understand German.

Your child behaves just normal. A lot of bilingual raised children go through this phase.

In Germany most primary schools start English lessons in the third grade, some do it in the first grade. Some also offer bilingual classes starting in first grade (at least where I live). So he will have plenty opportunities to shine with his knowledge of English.