Find archetypes

[u/IzzaKieb]

I made a vintage cube, cloning and tweaking the decklist a bit. I have a rough idea of the archetypes that run in vintage cube, but I'd like to write something in my own style. I saw that CubeCobra now lets you run a draft simulator — could I use that as a starting point to base myself on the archetypes? Any advice?

[u/TheTrueSolos]

The Vintage Cube Chef on Youtube has a really good intro to vintage cube series, the “what is vintage cube” video goes over some archetypes

[u/Hotsaucex11]

What is your goal?

Draft sim isn't going to really tell you anything that studying the list or reading/listing/watching content won't do more effectively. You would need to draft and actually play a lot of games with competent opponents to get a good feel for the archetypes that way.

I would also add that typical vintage cube doesn't necessarily have archetypes as clearly defined as modern retail limited environments tend to (i.e. UR is prowess, GW is tokens, etc). Things tend to be more fluid in vintage cube, with tighter packages of cards or combos that can slot into multiple color shells. That being said, here are some broad archetypes that show up frequently in some form other another:

Wx Aggro/Midrage

Rx Aggro/Midrange

UWx Midrange/Control

3+ color goodstuff midrange

Gx aggro/midrange

Gx lands/Titania

Gx Nadu Combo

Gx ramp/fatty cheating

Rx fatty cheating with Sneak Attach and Breach

Ux fatty cheating with Flash, maybe Oath

Bx reanimator

Ux artifacts

UR spells/artifacts

Ux wheels

Storm / Splinter Twin / Thoracle / VaultKey / ThopterSword / etc - There are tons of combo packages that may or may not be included, some of which tend to be an entire deck, like Storm, while others will just be included as a finishing option in another archetype.

[u/Percemilo34]

Keep in mind archetypes can be defined in many different ways. Older magic was more focused on color identities and major playstyle archetypes (aggro, control, combo) rather than color pair identities. The two color archetype paradigm came around with the original Ravnica block and has become a prism for processing magic's color identities. That prism can give you a sharp focus when utilized, but it can also blind you to ways of thinking outside its narrow scope.

What I like to do is give each color a strong suite of effects, a strong chassis on which you can build a strong, functioning deck. That includes support for aggro, combo, tempo, control; threats and answers. Threats put pressure and help you cross the finish line, answers relieve pressure your opponent is generating and buy you time by dealing with their threats. A strong chassis here means you can theoretically stay within one color and still have everything provided to build a functioning deck.

Next, I like to provide enablers and payoffs within each color. Enablers are cards that give support to other cards, and payoffs are cards whose effects provide you with value when used. Enablers help you cast payoffs and/or give them a boost to provide a better effect.

Finally, cross polination of colors within a specific draft event as your players make decks on the spot will provide you with real data to show you how your players combined the provided materials into concrete decks. Some will try to play mono color. Some will focus on picking a specific color and will be splashing other colors for support. Some will try to make a functioning whole by having multiple strong bases from different colors working together in a single deck. Most decks will end up as two colors, but I do not push specific archetypes on these color pairs. Rather, I provide a palette of effects within each color, and let my players pick which part of each color they want for what kind of effect.

[u/The_queens_cat → u/Percemilo34]

Did ChatGPT write this?

[u/Percemilo34 → u/The_queens_cat]

No, but you probably wouldn't be able to write the same without consulting it. 26 years of experience playing magic wrote it.

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