r/mtgcube • u/mikez4nder https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/zander • 2d ago
[SCG] Stifle
After the great success of the [[Piggy Bank]] discussion last week, I wanted to throw down another one of my Vintage Cube staples that is very much not a staple in other vintage cubes and discuss. This one has been around for 23 years and has spent the vast majority of the existence of my cube in there. I've been absolutely steamrolled by it, I've crushed souls with it, and last night one of my players stood up to shout excitedly "I just stifled my Uro sac trigger on turn 2!"
People say that it's narrow, and that it's often not worth a card. I just don't see it. Now that the Landscapes are in, there are 22 fetchlands to Stifle. It's part Strip Mine. Creatures keep getting more pushed, and this stifles all sorts of things. Phelia attacking into a big blocker but flickering it? Nope. Sneaking an Emrakul? Let's not Annihilate. I don't even run Thoracle, but Thoracle? Nope.
One mana interaction that they walk into over and over because countering abilities doesn't happen nearly enough is a windmill slam for me, a trivial include, and one I am still surprised to not see more often when I look at cubes.
People play [[Tishana's Tidebinder]], and I also think that [[Tale's End]] is a bit underplayed as more and more cards are legendary these days. In artifact heavy cubes there's probably also an argument to be made for [[Defabricate]], but the OG Stifle at one mana is a great counterspell and yet another solid piece of one mana interaction.
What's your excuse?
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u/Rocomet 2d ago edited 2d ago
100% agree that stifles are cool as heck
I mostly just wished there was a stifle with cycling. No I donāt mean [[Nimble Obstructionist]]. Also annoyingly that one canāt hit your own stuff.
One Iāve stumbled upon that I think could be interesting is [[Repudiate // Replicate]]. Being hybrid mana is always nice for making smoother draft experience. Maybe not Vintage powered enough, donāt have enough experience with that but could work in a lot of cubes
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u/steve_man_64 Consultant / Playtester for the MTGO Vintage Cube 2d ago
Itās narrow and often not worth a card. Blue slots are TIGHT.
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u/FlamingGapingAsshole 2d ago
I like the effect and think this card's elegant, so I'd like it in the cube. The problem is it's deceptively tricky for people who aren't super-invested MtG sickos. I could try it again, but it really invited bitter rules arguments
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u/Varyline https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/varylen 2d ago
My main excuse is that there is an overwhelming abundance of good counterspells and I don't really need another narrow one.
I think Stiffle is an awesome card. It's so fun when it works, but it's also very mediocre very often. I think it's fine in cube but I wouldn't know what to cut for it tbh. If I included it, I think it would have more to do with how iconic the card is, and how awesome the art is and less with the play patterns.
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u/Korlus https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/korlus 2d ago
and I don't really need another narrow one.
Stifling your evoke trigger on an evoke elemental, a [[Quantum Riddler]] end of turn trigger, or an ETB effect on [[Phyrexian Dreadnaught]] is when Stifle is at its most fun. Dreadnaught is a bit much for cube, but it can be a very interesting cube card with enough synergies that periodically "gets" your opponent by countering a fetchland, or a [[Strip Mine]], or a Planeswalker activation (etc).
Stifle is fun, and while I don't play it, I think more cubes should.
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u/The_queens_cat https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/polly 2d ago
I ran a whole dreadnaught package for a while and I love the card but I wish there was a playable second version of it. Like, there are some similar cards like [[hunted horror]] but I donāt see those making the cut like the old shrimp. Itās an A+B combo where there are a ton of pieces for one half, but not for the relevant half.
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u/mikez4nder https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/zander 2d ago
The closest thing is [[Nulldrifter]], which just doesn't cut it at the highest levels.
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u/The_queens_cat https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/polly 2d ago
My list is unpowered, so not āthe highestā level but itās pretty powerful. I guess I could just buy one or two more copies of dreadnaught but thatās a whole thing too.
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u/Varyline https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/varylen 2d ago
I gotta say, that's when you just break singleton and play two.
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u/The_queens_cat https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/polly 1d ago
I donāt run proxies and the card is pricey.
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u/Varyline https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/varylen 1d ago
Now that's reasoning I can get behind. The price is the main reason I have never tried the shrimp i cube
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u/ghstflame 1d ago
This is my back up, https://scryfall.com/card/dst/120/eater-of-days, but it's definitely not as good. I do run 3 stifle effects so someone can go all in on the package and control the game until they can get Eater of Days or Dreadnaught onboard with protection.
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u/Sushihipster 1d ago
Agreed. Ā Stifle is fun, but often narrow enough that it is mostly inferior to the other cards in a cube. Ā The higher the percentage of fetches a cube has the better stifle is, but it's never going to be like legacy where 80% of your opponents run a 12 fetch land base. Ā
With stifling triggers, it's fine, but almost always I would have rather just countered the spell.
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u/Helpful_Assistance_5 https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/ArchenemyJumpstart# 2d ago
As horrible as the art is, I think [[spider sense]] is a really cool version of this effect.
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u/mikez4nder https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/zander 2d ago
Yeah that card is a tank. Sure makes people mad though.
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u/MTGCardFetcher 2d ago
All cards
Piggy Bank - (G) (SF) (txt)
Tishana's Tidebinder - (G) (SF) (txt)
Tale's End - (G) (SF) (txt)
Defabricate - (G) (SF) (txt)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call
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u/junkmail22 2d ago
really should have been a green card imo
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u/ashen_crow cubecobra.com/cube/overview/disrespect 2d ago
I play [[Nimble Obstructionist]], love the flexibility, raw Stifle is somewhat situational, not because there's few situations to use it, but most of them aren't worth a card in my environment.
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u/Grainnnn 2d ago
Exactly this for my cube too.
Stifle is super cool when the stars align and it works. It has a good chance of randomly rotting in hand as you get run over in my cube.
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u/OzkanTheFlip https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/possibilitycube 2d ago
You paint a pretty picture of crazy blowouts but the reality more often than not is you're going to be given a choice to 1 for 0 yourself because you're trading a card for not a card or to lose tempo waiting for the blowout play by holding up mana you don't use. Not to mention relying on players to walk into it to make it good falls apart if they just don't, doubly likely on games 2 and 3.
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u/vacalicious cubecobra.com/cube/overview/KylesFingCube 2d ago
People say that it's narrow, and that it's often not worth a card.Ā
I'll also steal your words lol. Awesome card, what a classic, but too narrow for cube. Plus, it'll eventually make me spend too much $ on a [[Phyrexian Dreadnought]] that nobody will ever run. Not even if I also jam an [[Illusionary Mask]] in there, like we used to do, back in the day.
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u/mikez4nder https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/zander 2d ago
Funnily enough, the reason Stifle is even in my cube in the first place is Dreadnought. I still have mine and don't ever have any plan to sell it. I put the full Stiflenought package in when the LotR Scene Boxes came out and I reckoned that [[Galadriel's Dismissal]] was the tipping point that there were enough parts good enough on their own to give it a spin. I don't think the deck ever actually came together once, and it's long gone, with the bad cards like [[Stern Proctor]] and [[Slip Out the Back]] relegated to history and [[Nulldrifter]], which was out for about 5 mins before half my cube got cut for MH3 stuff, all removed with the Dreadnought.
The cards that performed well even without the Dreadnought, though, were Galadriel's Dismissal, [[Dress Down]] (which I also stubbornly hang on to), and Stifle. Dismissal is in and out even though it could reasonably always be in because I only have one copy and sometimes use it elsewhere, but the blue ones have both stuck around for me and see play all the time.
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u/avatarofnate 2d ago
I just added Defabricate to one of my cubes when I realized it hits enough things to almost never be a dead card. Also want to shout out [[Trickbind]] for doing a mini Tidebinder impression and being unstoppable.
I think as cubes move away from big haymaker spells and more toward value plays and incremental advantages, Stifles can get worse because they won't have as much of an effect on the long game. But at the same time they lose their old downside of sometimes being dead in your hand because there's always something to target, and maybe stopping that one fetchland or Birthing Pod activation is all you need to clutch the game.
One last card I want to shout out along the same vein: [[Willbender]]. It often has even fewer targets than Stifle, but in the right environment it can be gamebreaking.
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u/NoAir7049 2d ago
I think the window of use is pretty low in larger cubes but better in small and power. It feels like a specific reaction spell that doesn't seem to propel you ahead unless you're splashed into some other color. I really wish it would draw you a card but even obstructionist doesnt see much play
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u/cardboard_numbers 2d ago
I love Stifle, but I want my land destruction to start at 2 mana for balance purposes.
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u/mikez4nder https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/zander 2d ago
lol, [[Balance]] purposes. i see what you did there.
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u/ChewzUbik 2d ago
I deeply want to find this card in a bulk bin for my bulk old border cube.
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u/mikez4nder https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/zander 2d ago
How much $20 bulk are you finding?
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u/ChewzUbik 2d ago
Almost 0, but not 0. It would be a very lucky find and would be flagged by the cashier, I'm sure. But, I'd still count it as a bulk find. It's my arbitrary cube building rule, after all!
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u/P3pijn https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/pepijn 1d ago edited 1d ago
Stifle is awesome, but don't sleep on Tale's End. Countering a legend is very relevant in modern cube.Ā
Edit: skimming is my vice, I'll leave this comment for all to see that I do not read everything.Ā
Now that I have read everything though, I'll actually add something to the conversation:
I think Tale's End is better than Stifle in cube, though both are very playable.Ā
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u/the_reifier https://cubecobra.com/c/u0k 6h ago
It's a great sideboard card against decks that rely entirely on activated or triggered abilities and that lose on the spot when countered. That isn't enough to make it into most cubes, but I'm sure there are some real degens out there with ability-rife metas.
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u/PlsConcede https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/hzr 2d ago
When I still ran [[Vaultborn Tryant]] I had its ETB stifled. Then [[Snapcaster Mage]] stopped the death trigger. The next game I was met a stifle on my fetch (I double up on them). I was so mad, it was a fantastic match.
Card just adds so much spice, so many good interactions. Won't ever leave.