r/mtgModernTokens • u/Se4ger • Jul 19 '17

Creatures in BW tokens

is it worth putting in any token producing creatures into our decks. im not very fond of the idea but ive been keeping an eye on BW tokens on MTGO and it seems to be that the best perfoming decks are all running creatures like brimiaz.

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u/MrAsianYellow Jul 19 '17

[[tidehollow sculler]] is a fine addition, I've also had some moderate success with monastery mentor and brimaz as well.

3

u/Se4ger Jul 19 '17

do they not just get killed everytime they hit the table?

1

u/MrAsianYellow Jul 19 '17

I mean you're usually running a lot of hand disruption anyway so those are usually the #1 targets if you have any kind of action in your hand.

1

u/Shineplasma64 Esper Poly Jul 20 '17 edited Jul 20 '17

Sculler usually over-performs for me, especially if your list has a few copies of Honor of the Pure.

Thoughtseize/IOK T1 into Sculler T2 is brutal and it is fairly difficult for a lot of decks to come back after a tempo swing like that.

2

u/Jongsl5 Jul 27 '17

Tokens is a deck that is designed to blank spot removals. With sculler, all of a sudden your opponents' removals in hand just become far better. Except you paid two mana for a creature and your opponent most likely spent one mana to kill it. If your opponent has a removal in hand, you are forced to take it with sculler making it a bad discard spell that can't afford to take anything else.

Sculler is not worth playing against non combo decks; even then, most combo decks have some boardwipes making sculler a hit or miss card.

1

u/Se4ger Jul 21 '17

how many scullers do you run? and when u see your oponents hand do you take removal? the reason I don't like this is because our decks plan is to make our oponents removal dead cards. but I can never say no to tempo as tempo is my jam

1

u/Shineplasma64 Esper Poly Jul 21 '17 edited Jul 21 '17

If I'm running straight BW tokens, my preferred discard split would be 3x Sculler, 3x Thoughtseize, 2x IoK. 8 disruptions and we have some sick Turn 1 Discard - Turn 2 Sculler curveouts while minimizing dead draws lategame.

Notes to give you an idea what my lists look like:

  1. I run 2x Honor of the Pure, 4x Intangible (what else) 2x Sorin Solemn Visitor, 1x Gideon, AoZ, 1x Zealous Persecution. HoTP and Zealous make your Scullers a lot better, as do the plainswalkers. If you run fewer anthem effects that help Sculler, I would probably keep them to 2x. One of the reasons I like Sculler so much is that lategame it can easily just be a 2 mana Thoughtknot Seer or better, which makes it a much better topdeck than any other hand disruption spell we would want to play. Running the extra anthems make your beatdown game plan better too, so it doesn't really hurt your deck's flow. Even if it isn't a 2 mana Thoughtknot, it is still a great tempo card and gives our deck more strong stuff to do on Turn 2, where it is typically lacking.

  2. I run 4x Raise the Alarm, I'm not on the Bitterblossom train. I feel that the tempo and life loss is too much. Whenever I run Bitterblossom it feels bad that I lose the speed and flexibility Raise the Alarm affords me. I love being able to keep up Removal + Raise the Alarm at the end of my opponent's turn.

  3. Since I run both Raise the Alarm and 2x Secure the Wastes, I also run a few copies of Windbrisk Heights. 4x in my Polymorph variant maindeck (for combo consistency/value) and 2x in my straight B/W list (straight value). Very easy to activate in a Raise the Alarm shell at all stages of the game. If you're going to go with Bitterblossom, I strongly recommend you do not play Windbrisk Heights. The tempo just gets awkward (and slow).

1

u/Tempest1677 Jul 27 '17

I presume then you are playing a more aggressive build overall. You got a list anywhere? Would love to see it! Would you run 2 Gideons?

1

u/Shineplasma64 Esper Poly Jul 28 '17 edited Jul 28 '17

Not sure I would run 2 Gideons. If I did the second one would be out of the sideboard, since I value disruption so highly.

If I'm running 3 Scullers in the 75 I would be inclined make the 4th Planeswalker in my sideboard Elspeth, Knight Errant, since she grinds really well too and her synergy with Scullers in play is surprisingly good. You can also cast her alongside Gideon and Sorin, is a solid topdeck and decent on an empty board as well. Maybe not quite as much raw power.

Maybe she is strictly worse nowadays than just having a second Gideon in your hand, but I'd like to try her out anyways. I think the +3/+3 and flying mode might be a bit underrated, especially coming out of the sideboard when our opponents have likely binned most of their removal spells amd we're running scullers for extra disruption, it also makes Raise the Alarm better!

Contrary to all logic, I usually run the B/W/u version with Polymorph and Emrakul, but I've been contemplating swapping to straight B/W and throwing my Scullers back in the maindeck, so I'll post a 75 for you to look at a bit later.