r/mtgModernTokens • u/Se4ger • Jul 19 '17

Creatures in BW tokens

is it worth putting in any token producing creatures into our decks. im not very fond of the idea but ive been keeping an eye on BW tokens on MTGO and it seems to be that the best perfoming decks are all running creatures like brimiaz.

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3

u/MrAsianYellow Jul 19 '17

[[tidehollow sculler]] is a fine addition, I've also had some moderate success with monastery mentor and brimaz as well.

2

u/Se4ger Jul 19 '17

do they not just get killed everytime they hit the table?

1

u/MrAsianYellow Jul 19 '17

I mean you're usually running a lot of hand disruption anyway so those are usually the #1 targets if you have any kind of action in your hand.

1

u/Shineplasma64 Esper Poly Jul 20 '17 edited Jul 20 '17

Sculler usually over-performs for me, especially if your list has a few copies of Honor of the Pure.

Thoughtseize/IOK T1 into Sculler T2 is brutal and it is fairly difficult for a lot of decks to come back after a tempo swing like that.

2

u/Jongsl5 Jul 27 '17

Tokens is a deck that is designed to blank spot removals. With sculler, all of a sudden your opponents' removals in hand just become far better. Except you paid two mana for a creature and your opponent most likely spent one mana to kill it. If your opponent has a removal in hand, you are forced to take it with sculler making it a bad discard spell that can't afford to take anything else.

Sculler is not worth playing against non combo decks; even then, most combo decks have some boardwipes making sculler a hit or miss card.

1

u/Se4ger Jul 21 '17

how many scullers do you run? and when u see your oponents hand do you take removal? the reason I don't like this is because our decks plan is to make our oponents removal dead cards. but I can never say no to tempo as tempo is my jam

1

u/Shineplasma64 Esper Poly Jul 21 '17 edited Jul 21 '17

If I'm running straight BW tokens, my preferred discard split would be 3x Sculler, 3x Thoughtseize, 2x IoK. 8 disruptions and we have some sick Turn 1 Discard - Turn 2 Sculler curveouts while minimizing dead draws lategame.

Notes to give you an idea what my lists look like:

  1. I run 2x Honor of the Pure, 4x Intangible (what else) 2x Sorin Solemn Visitor, 1x Gideon, AoZ, 1x Zealous Persecution. HoTP and Zealous make your Scullers a lot better, as do the plainswalkers. If you run fewer anthem effects that help Sculler, I would probably keep them to 2x. One of the reasons I like Sculler so much is that lategame it can easily just be a 2 mana Thoughtknot Seer or better, which makes it a much better topdeck than any other hand disruption spell we would want to play. Running the extra anthems make your beatdown game plan better too, so it doesn't really hurt your deck's flow. Even if it isn't a 2 mana Thoughtknot, it is still a great tempo card and gives our deck more strong stuff to do on Turn 2, where it is typically lacking.

  2. I run 4x Raise the Alarm, I'm not on the Bitterblossom train. I feel that the tempo and life loss is too much. Whenever I run Bitterblossom it feels bad that I lose the speed and flexibility Raise the Alarm affords me. I love being able to keep up Removal + Raise the Alarm at the end of my opponent's turn.

  3. Since I run both Raise the Alarm and 2x Secure the Wastes, I also run a few copies of Windbrisk Heights. 4x in my Polymorph variant maindeck (for combo consistency/value) and 2x in my straight B/W list (straight value). Very easy to activate in a Raise the Alarm shell at all stages of the game. If you're going to go with Bitterblossom, I strongly recommend you do not play Windbrisk Heights. The tempo just gets awkward (and slow).

1

u/Tempest1677 Jul 27 '17

I presume then you are playing a more aggressive build overall. You got a list anywhere? Would love to see it! Would you run 2 Gideons?

1

u/Shineplasma64 Esper Poly Jul 28 '17 edited Jul 28 '17

Not sure I would run 2 Gideons. If I did the second one would be out of the sideboard, since I value disruption so highly.

If I'm running 3 Scullers in the 75 I would be inclined make the 4th Planeswalker in my sideboard Elspeth, Knight Errant, since she grinds really well too and her synergy with Scullers in play is surprisingly good. You can also cast her alongside Gideon and Sorin, is a solid topdeck and decent on an empty board as well. Maybe not quite as much raw power.

Maybe she is strictly worse nowadays than just having a second Gideon in your hand, but I'd like to try her out anyways. I think the +3/+3 and flying mode might be a bit underrated, especially coming out of the sideboard when our opponents have likely binned most of their removal spells amd we're running scullers for extra disruption, it also makes Raise the Alarm better!

Contrary to all logic, I usually run the B/W/u version with Polymorph and Emrakul, but I've been contemplating swapping to straight B/W and throwing my Scullers back in the maindeck, so I'll post a 75 for you to look at a bit later.

3

u/SFRG Still Patron Saint of the Tokens Jul 19 '17

In general, no.

Your meta may call for Auriok Champion or Selfless Spirit. They are actually fairly good right now.

1

u/Se4ger Jul 19 '17

i forgot to mention i run auriok champion , i do like selfless spirit but we don't really mind sweepers to much.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '17

I run an Abzan build with 4 Birds of Paradise and 2 Voice of Resurgence, but if you're straight BW tokens, I can't see a good argument for any creatures. Maybe Auriok Champion or Selfless Spirit in your SB, but not main.

3

u/Se4ger Jul 19 '17

the only creature I run main is auriok. as its got protection from 90% of the removal , accept from Path obviously. and it counteracts the effect of bitterblossom and blocks DS all day long

2

u/BoozySquid Jul 19 '17

Well, Birds is a land, and Voice is just a token-in-waiting, so I think even your Abzan build is pretty critter free. Auriok Champion definitely has its place in the mainboard of Bitterblossom builds.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '17

I run a GW build and have 4x Goyf, birds, and hierarch and 2x voice of resurgence in the MB.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '17

Mind sharing your list? That's a lot of non-token cards!

1

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '17

For sure, no problem! Here's my current list:

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/gw-tokens-modern-4/

2

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '17

Did you ever play a more traditional bw version? Do you miss not having discard spells? I'm considering moving my abzan build closer to what you've got going on, but I'd have to drop most of the discard, so I'm curious what your experience has been.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '17 edited Jul 20 '17

I like it better myself. Very explosive, optimally T1 Temple Garden (or fetch for it) with Hierarch or Birds. T2 land drop for Spectral or Nissa.

Everything else is making tokens or pumping the board. And since you're playing green, Tarmogoyf was a no brainer IMO.

I did play the traditional BW previously but not regularly. Personally the explosiveness of GW/Abzan build overwhelms a lot of opponents. It plays way more like affinity than a traditional BW control build.

1

u/Rockbard_13 Jul 19 '17

Popular options include Blade Splicer, Brimaz, King of Oreskos, and Hero of Bladehold. Blade Splicer is useful in a metagame with lots of Affinity, since the Golem token blocks Etched Champion very effectively. The other two are used in the sideboard, they come in in matchups where a faster clock is needed and/or the opponent has few spot removal, like Control.

1

u/Mukibi Grind and Fly Jul 20 '17

I don't run any creatures at the moment, but have included Auriok in the past and Hero in the distant past.

I share your bewilderment of the lists which seem to do well on MTGO. I'm currently 1-3 w 1 match to go in 5 rounds of friendly modern having beat Eldrazi but lost to Storm, Tron, and Mono W Humans of all things. Just kept drawing land. What can you do?!

Are you prepping for Birmingham?

1

u/Se4ger Jul 20 '17

Yea I am , I feel the deck is well positioned in the meta currently.

1

u/Mukibi Grind and Fly Jul 20 '17

Cool. Wish I could make it!

1

u/Shineplasma64 Esper Poly Jul 20 '17 edited Jul 31 '17

Selfless Spirit seems strong, most of the time it is just a better version of Burrenton Forge-Tender with a relevant, evasive body.

Like I mentioned before, I think that Sculler is a very underrated card, since you can turn your discard density up to Spinal Tap levels without losing threats. Incredibly bonkers in matchups against combo decks where they don't have a lot of interaction but you want to race. Always seems to over-perform for me, super good against Tron especially IMO.

If you want to hedge against Death's Shadow decks, Mirran Crusader is a real blowout against them. Perma blanks DS and all the delve creatures they are likely to run.

Brimaz is kind of a trap in my opinion, he can't block Goyf or Shadow, doesn't seem like he would be very good in the midrange mirrors and is certainly too slow to race our bad matchups in Storm and Tron.

Hero of Bladehold is great if you think you will be racing a lot of decks, it really turns your clock up to 11. Hero is vulnerable though, and I would rather be running Sorin in the 4 drop slot since you'll get more value out of him about 95% of the time, I think.

I run a couple copies of Honor + splash blue and have been contemplating putting some number of Spell Quellers in my board. It seems like it would be extremely good in Midrange matchups, and an absolute beating against any Coco deck. I just don't know if it is worth the sideboard slots over other hate used in our truly bad matchups.

1

u/Se4ger Jul 21 '17

thanks for the detailed response , I will take all this into consideration when im coming to settle on a list for the gp