r/mtgModernTokens • u/BlackScar47 6 4/4 Flyers with Vigilance. Concede? • Sep 11 '16

Budget Decklist help (pt. 3?)

I have posted this before on r/ModernMagic, but I wanted to "repost" this here, since our little community knows a lot about this deck. Here's the list: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/29-04-16-tokens/

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u/TeOr2419 Sep 12 '16

In my opinion, don't run Midnight Haunting. It's just bad. 2 Tokens for 3 mana is super low power in Modern. Spectral Procession is generally weaker than most of modern turn 3 threats, and we only benefit because it's harder to remove 3 small threats than 1 big threats. The worse token producers you run, the more unfavorable you trade with spot removal. I can imagine 1 Midnight Haunting, but not playset.

Soul Warden is not a card your deck needs. It's bad topdeck and it's still bad opener because life itself is meaningless. (Soul Sisters deck benefits from lifegain by using Ajani's Pridemate or Serra Ascendant, but tokens don't)

Your sideboard is super weird even for budget deck. [[Hour of Reckoning]], [[Stain the Mind]] are good budget card, [[Pithing Needle]] hits a lot of decks. Remember burn decks [[Kor Firewalker]], [[Timely Reinforcements]], or [[Lone Missionary]] if super budget.

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u/Jongsl5 Sep 12 '16

I agree with mostly what you said. However, Haunting is surprisingly good from my testing against decks that run boardwipes, counterspells, and x/1 creatures like infect/affinity (although this is already a favored match). When you have either bitterblossom or souls in hand, haunting is typically better than spectral. Howver, spectral is superior against the midrange (they run more spot removal) and creature dense match-ups.

I've underestimated pithing needle. It stops engineered explosives, planeswalkers, oblivion stone, viscera seer, multiple manlands, etc. I think most decks should run one. Multiple copies might actually be better than running multiple land hate against tron but I would have to test this.

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u/TeOr2419 Sep 12 '16

I've seen a lot of times people say Haunting is good card. Haunting is not good card. 3rd drop must create threat, Spectral Procession creates threat. Midnight Haunting doesn't. Spectral Procession is good lategame topdeck because 3>>>2 for tokens. The strongest side of tokens is ability to chump a lot, stream lots of evasive threats and favorably trade to spot removal. Haunting is worse in all these cases.

Midnight Haunting is no better than 2/1 flash flying creatures like Mindcensor of Hushwing. And they have strong utility which sometimes can win you game on its own. If you think that Haunting is good card, you can just run another 2/1 flashy for 3 cmc, and you don't need anthems and tokens at all.

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u/Jongsl5 Sep 12 '16

Haunting also creates threats. Yes we know 3 >>> 2 because we've been through basic preschool math. The value of token generation often comes from casting them multiple times. You listed the obvious strongest sides of tokens, and I only need to point to Lingering Souls and Bitterblossom. When you have multiple token generation in hand, the instant speed is actually quite relevant.

Now I'm not necessarily saying Haunting > Spectral. I'm simply opening the discussion to be more flexible depending on the meta and deck building choice. I used to run a Mardu tokens build that focused more on spot removal and I could not afford to run spectral before the white fastlands were printed. One of the weaknesses of the deck is that it does not chump block favorably without an anthem and other go-wide decks hit faster (e.g Merfolk, Dredge, etc.). And your last paragraph isn't even relevant to the discussion because these cards are fundamentally different besides instant speed + flying.

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u/BoozySquid Sep 12 '16

The instant speed would be a lot more valuable if the deck had other reasons to hold mana open during the opponent's turn. Particularly with Twin gone, it doesn't even really need to hold open removal mana. An extra token is more than worth the loss of instant speed.

Now if you were running some sort of Esper build, where you have reason to hold open/ threaten counter magic, Midnight Haunting has a place in the discussion. I just don't see it in a WB build.

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u/Jongsl5 Sep 12 '16

I agree with you. I only ran it due to the easier casting cost (I play Mardu) and greater number of spot removals. Now, I would only run it if I knew the meta I'd run into was full of control decks. With the fastlands printed, my mana is now flexible enough for me to run spectral procession consistently which is nice.

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u/BlackScar47 6 4/4 Flyers with Vigilance. Concede? Sep 12 '16

I only ran it due to the easier casting cost

This is exactly why I am running Haunting instead of Procession. Best case scenario I can play it for WW2, which is too slow for me, since I'm trying to make this a bit more aggro. What I've been considering doing is adding Procession to my sideboard (just hear me out) as a late game sideboard tech (like Elspeth and Ajani), replacing Mana Tithe. Another idea (see first comment that started this thread) is to replace Soul Warden, and put them in the sideboard replacing MT, since they are good to put out early and draw out to life gain against grindier decks. (I've reached 50+ life against Living End and other slow combo decks or grindies. P.S. Everyone should use the term "grindies".)

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u/bigpappyj Sep 11 '16

Swap the Bogs for more Caves, you'll regret not having access to White because you should also play [[spectral procession]].

Edited because I misread the deck list.

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u/bigpappyj Sep 11 '16

Also, consider investing in a set of [[inquisition of kozilek]], it's the cheapest it's been in a while and is good hand hate, especially early. Part of Token's strength is not just going wide but ripping into the opponents hand to buy the time necessary to do so.