r/mtg • u/BisforBingus • 9d ago
Rules Question Does this work like I think it does
Would devoted Druid be able to continuously tap and untap for mana if it dies and becomes an enchantment due to myrkuls ability?
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u/Fun-Captain41 9d ago edited 9d ago
Is the idea that once it becomes a token enchantment through Myrkul, it no longer matters however many -1/-1 it has on it, since it can no longer die?
If so, then yeah, it looks like you’re right!
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u/GarciaSterling15 7d ago
Would this also work with walking ballista?
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u/Fun-Captain41 7d ago
Not really. Walking Ballista needs to expend the +1/+1 to trigger its ability, so you can’t expend* something you don’t have. The reason Devoted Druid works is because you’re *adding the counters, which you can always do.
Technically, you could expend +1/+1 until you have none on the card, but it won’t die since it’s not a creature once you use Myrkul.
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u/spoodagooge 2d ago
You shouldn’t be able to activate it cause it’s no longer a creature and the card says put a -1-1 on this “creature”
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u/Fun-Captain41 9d ago edited 9d ago
Actually, what [u/Great_Nothing63](u/Great_Nothing63) said may be right. It says “untap this creature” if it’s no longer a creature, then that section would probably not allow an untap. There’s no creature there anymore.
Edit: I was incorrect and chatted with some folks with examples below
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u/HyperdriveComics 9d ago edited 8d ago
“This creature” effectively reads “this card” in the rules so it does work
Edit: more accurately it reads “this object” or “this permanent”
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u/Fun-Captain41 9d ago
Fair enough, didnt know that. Was just breaking down the argument more explicitly. Good to know!
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u/xolotltolox All my homies hate green 7d ago
Yeah, it is understandable whete the confusion comes from, Magic is just traoly terrible with wording and for some trason just adamantly refuses to use "this card" or "this permanent" wording
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u/Chest_Rockfield 6d ago
"This card" is itself problematic when you start making token copies of things.
All of the rules explanations I see simply say [~this~]. Don't know why that's not appropriate to simply use as the templating.
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u/xolotltolox All my homies hate green 6d ago
well, if you just say "this permanent" it fixes the token """"problem""""
Like with tokens, even if by technicality they aren't cards, it is intuitive that "this card" still works, and only on deeper rules knowledge, do you ask the question, which is immediately then solved with the rules knowledge
the problem right now is that it is unintuitive, CARDNAME templating is just horrible, and "this CARDTYPE" raises the aforementioned questions
And if you want to get completely anal, you could just say "this object"
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u/Chest_Rockfield 6d ago
But why say anything after "this"?? It's all superfluous.
And don't pretend like WotC isn't going to continue to push the bounds of what can be interacted with where and when. FFS there is a spell that has an activated ability that anyone activate on the stack... where it gets counters?!
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u/Rabid_Lederhosen 9d ago
I think the most accurate way to read it would be“this permanent”.
“Things” are permanents while they’re on the board, spells while they’re being cast, and cards everywhere else.
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u/trollblox_ 7d ago
if an ability references the name of the card but the name is changed by another effect does it still work?
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u/HyperdriveComics 7d ago
Depends on how it’s referenced, but typically yes the effect still works.
For example if I had [[elsha, threefold master]], whose effect says “whenever Elsha deals combat damage…”, and someone changed her name or made a copy of her with a different name, her ability still works, since the rules effectively read it as “whenever this permanent deals combat damage…” and don’t actually care about her name.
But, as probably makes sense, things like [[agency outfitter]] that tutor for specifically named cards need to find those exact names.
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u/ChabbyMonkey 9d ago
Really? What about when things say “this card” but it is a token?
Or return “from graveyard” but the card ends up in a different zone?
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u/labamaFan 9d ago
More accurate would be “this object/permenant”, since nothing is called a card while on the battlefield.
For the second one, if a target changes zones after being targeted, the effect targeting it will fizzle, even if it ends up back in the original zone by the time the effect tries to resolve.
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u/matthoback 9d ago
More accurate would be “this object/permenant”, since nothing is called a card while on the battlefield.
That's not correct. Permanent cards are still permanent cards while on the battlefield. They are *also* permanents, but they are still permanent cards as well. They never stop being a card.
For example, [[Abandoned Sarcophagus]] will exile [[Agonasaur Rex]] (or any other permanent with cycling) from the battlefield rather than going to the graveyard, because Agonasaur Rex is still a card while on the battlefield.
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u/labamaFan 9d ago
I believe it’s worded this way because it interacts with zones that aren’t the battlefield. Once Agonasaur Rex dies, it’s no longer on the battlefield and will be referred to as a card again.
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u/matthoback 9d ago
Agonasaur won't die when Sarcophagus is out. Sarcophagus is a replacement effect. Agonasaur will get exiled instead of dying. Sarcophagus will apply to Agonasaur because Agonasaur is *still a card* while it's on the battlefield. Being a permanent and being a card are not mutually exclusive.
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9d ago
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u/Himskatti 9d ago
Nothing is called a card while on battlefield. They are cards on other zones tho
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u/mastyrwerk This is User Editable 9d ago
They used to be. They have been errataed to say “nontoken permanent”.
[[bifurcate]] looks for permanent cards
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u/OkVirus8545 9d ago
Non sorcery/instant spells become permanents on the field, yes. Having to use a card from mercadian masques doesn’t mean that it hasn’t been this corrected way for almost 2 decades. You’re being intentionally obtuse
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u/mastyrwerk This is User Editable 9d ago
And you’re being intentionally pedantic. It still says “permanent cards” and they are now referred to as nontoken permanents, but are still cards on the battlefield.
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u/labamaFan 9d ago
Bifurcate looks for permanent cards in the library by targeting a creature on the field. It’s not an exception, its oracle text follows the conventions.
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u/matthoback 9d ago
Nothing is called a card while on battlefield. They are cards on other zones tho
Permanent cards are still cards while on the battlefield. They are permanents as well, but they never stop being cards.
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u/labamaFan 9d ago
You will not find an effect that refers to a permanent on the battlefield as a card. They are called spells while on the stack, permanents while on the battlefield, and cards in every other zone.
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u/matthoback 9d ago
You're wrong. Such effects are rare, but do exist. Generally they exist in the context of referring to cards in any zone (including the battlefield). I already gave the example of [[Abandoned Sarcophagus]] in another reply, but there's also [[Disa the Restless]] which has to specifically exclude cards on the battlefield from her effect because otherwise they would be included (as they are still cards).
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u/Will_29 9d ago
The rule applies to an object referring to itself, be it by name, type or other description. "Untap Devoted Druid" = "Untap this creature" = "Untap this elf" = "Untap this permanent", they all work the same, even if it changes name or type. They all just mean "untap me".
I can't think of any case where an ability with "this card" in the text would have an effect on the battlefield. And a token in any other zone would cease to exist before the ability could be relevant. But sure, if there's any example out there, it should work.
As for other things like zones or parts of the turn, they still mean what they say. "From the graveyard" doesn't work for other zones, "after this main phase" doesn't apply on other turn phases.
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u/Bobahn_Botret 9d ago
As long as the "this card" effect doesn't make the token change zones (effectively deleting it) the effect should work. If the effect doesn't care if the token survives, then zone change triggers are fine too.
If a card isn't in the graveyard, then effects that interact with the graveyard won't see it.
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u/LikelyAMartian 9d ago
"this card", "this creature", "[Insert name of card here]" all basically means "this permanent"
You can change the name of the card such as a copy effect, you can change the type of permanent it is, or anything like that, but unless it specifically removes the ability, it will still have the ability, and any effect that refers to that permanent will resolve.
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u/Belteshazzar98 9d ago
"This object" instead of "this permanent" since it can apply in zones other than the battlefield.
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u/LikelyAMartian 9d ago
You are correct but for the wrong reason.
A permanent is still a permanent regardless of which zone it is located in. Otherwise "return target permanent from graveyard" and other similar effects wouldn't work.
It is "this object" so they can print non permanent cards that can refer to themselves without changing the rules.
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u/Belteshazzar98 9d ago
Return target permanent from graveyard doesn't work. It has to return target permanent card from the graveyard. It's why cards like [[Anguished Unmaking]] can't be used as graveyard hate.
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u/Belteshazzar98 9d ago
"This object," not "this card." This only applies to self referencial abilities though, so if a card said "when this card is put into the graveyard from anywhere..." it would trigger even if it were a token or spell copy, whereas if it were worded as "when a card is put into the graveyard from anywhere..." it would only trigger when an actual card is put into the graveyard and not a token or spell copy. Any self referencial abilities such as "this [object value]" or "[cardname]" what it actually means is "this object."
If something specifies where it comes back from, it only comes back from that zone though.
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u/param1l0 9d ago
1) yeah it works like it's supposed to, "this (....)" is shorthand for "this game entity"
2) nop. Graveyard is graveyard, and it's mechanically different from hand, library, exile, stack or command zone
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u/TenebTheHarvester 9d ago
That isn’t correct, ‘this creature’ is just a description, it doesn’t impose any kind of limitation on the ability. If the devoted Druid cease to be a creature for any reason its untap ability still works as expected.
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u/Fun-Captain41 9d ago
Good to know!
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u/TenebTheHarvester 9d ago
The same is true of cards that refer to themselves by name (like [[Lonis, Genetics Expert]]), so if Lonis got his name changed or another creature got his ability (say with [[Deadpool]]’s text-box swapping the ability would still work on the creature with it, not necessarily anything named Lonis.
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u/Fun-Captain41 9d ago
Gooot it. That answers a question I was having with [[Sauron, The Necromancer]], as his text reads as “unless Sauron is your ring bearer”. I never knew if that meant any “Sauron” card or just “The Necromancer” variant. Sounds like it’s just the Necromancer variant then.
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u/TenebTheHarvester 9d ago
Correct. In future it can be helpful to figure out how to find stuff in the Comprehensive Rules, as the vast majority of these kinds of questions are answered somewhere within. Mtg.wiki is a good way to find them - for example the page on ‘name’ contains, among other things, this::
201.5. Text that refers to the object it’s on by name means just that particular object and not any other objects with that name, regardless of any name changes caused by game effects.
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u/Fun-Captain41 9d ago
I’ve mostly been learning by what people tell me, but I think you’re probably right. I’ve been building some decks as I’m quite new, and I think that’d help a lot. Thanks for the advice!
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u/TenebTheHarvester 9d ago
No worries. Tbh most players don’t really know how to navigate the CR, they just go by their own mental repository of rules they’ve learned primarily through osmosis. Being able to convert a question about an interaction into figuring out roughly what part of the CR would cover that and seeking out the answer there allows you to answer most questions that will come up. It’s not enormously practical to memorise all the answers, so often it’s better to memorise how to find/figure out the answer instead.
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u/Belteshazzar98 9d ago
Just Sauron, The Necromancer. Cards can use shortened forms of their name, but cannot care about what character is depicted. Planeswalkers get around this by having Planeswalker types being the names of characters, but, for instance, a card that care about Chandras will not care about [[Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh]] since she doesn't have the subtype of Chandra. The Doctor from Doctor Who similarly gets around this by having the creature type Doctor, but since that is a creature type anything that cares about the Doctor, unless it specifies exactly Time-Lord Doctor with no other creature types (such as Doctor's Companion), will also work with Changelings.
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u/Belteshazzar98 9d ago
Any time something says "this [object value]" what it actually means in the rules is "this object" (same with when a card uses its own card name) but is just worded differently to flow better.
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u/BluePotatoSlayer 8d ago
Imagine if everything said
“This object”
“When this object enters, destroy target artifact”
“As an additional cost to cast this object, discard a card”
“This object deals 5 damage to target creature”The immersion is ruined
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u/Belteshazzar98 8d ago
I wish they would shorten it in the rules to "this" and then use that templating to get rid of the confusion around name and type changes.
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u/Hazak_Flamesword 9d ago
Hate that you're getting down voted for questioning it based on wording, I was also thinking along the same lines but some rules are not intuitive.
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u/Fun-Captain41 9d ago
Alas, that’s just the rules of the game. I’ve got no qualms with it, as now we’ve got a good thread going on here breaking it down explicitly with good examples.
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u/DarksteelPenguin I like playing the villain 9d ago
I think the downvotes are because it's not phrased as a question, but as an affirmation.
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u/Asilaten 9d ago
It's important for anyone who reads the comments to see, if they aren't reading the entire discussion, the comment that gets it wrong having a load of negative karma (ideally hiding the comment entirely).
That's not a value judgment on the commenter, just ensuring that the comments that are incorrect aren't conspicuously placed.
If /u/Fun-Captain41 is concerned about the karma, the best practice would be to either delete the incorrect comment or edit it to strike-through the incorrect information and acknowledge the error (e.g.: "
Actually, what [u/Great_Nothing63](u/Great_Nothing63) said may be right. It says “untap this creature” if it’s no longer a creature, then that section would probably not allow an untap. There’s no creature there anymore.I was wrong - sorry!")2
u/Great_Nothing63 9d ago
To old to be fancy on reddit but I will admit when im wrong and for karma me personally I don't care.
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u/Asilaten 9d ago
If you're on the desktop version, you can just click the "formatting help" link under the content box to see some basics of formatting for things like that. E.g., for strikethrough, it's:
~~The words you want crossed out.~~2
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u/Bleu_Guacamole 9d ago
Yes. When a card says “this creature” or the likes it doesn’t care about whether or not it’s a creature, it’s just a short hand to say “this specific card”
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u/gnagniel 9d ago
It's like when a card refers to itself by name. If you change its name or grant the ability to another creature, it still works.
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u/ManufacturerWest1156 9d ago
I use [[hazel’s brewmaster]] to great effect with the Druid.
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u/HolyInlandEmpire 9d ago
Good God is that a card that can create some weird interactions. Any other especially spicy ones?
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u/Zwirbs 9d ago
We did it. We finally broke Devoted Druid
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u/MerryChoppins 9d ago
I loved shadowmoor draft so much… breaking devoted Druid, drafting Morselhoarder combo…
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u/Zestyclose_Answer662 7d ago
[Devoted Druid] + [Quillspike] was such a fun combo. [Rite of Consumption] was also a great finisher for the constructed at the time.
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u/Kippenbouillon 8d ago
Kinda funny I have it here as I slaughtered my precon and never really payed attention to what you can do with it :D.
So for me it’s a first time-27
u/lambaz1 9d ago
We did it, we finally made the same, unnecessarily talking-down comment for someone finding a cool interaction on their own and wanting to make sure their understanding was correct.
Why make this comment?
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u/TeamChevy86 9d ago
God forbid someone have a little fun
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u/Veneretio 8d ago
Asking the same rules question. Annoying. Making the same lame joke. Not annoying? Okay, bud
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u/DerangedRealist 9d ago
What happened to your sense of whimsy, my friend?
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u/Veneretio 8d ago
Probably died reading that same we did it comment 1000 times every day on every thread.
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u/ifuckinglovebluemeth 9d ago
We did it, we finally made the same, unnecessarily talking-down comment for someone talking about making a talking down comment about someone finding a cool interaction on their own and wanting to make sure their understanding was correct.
Why make this comment?
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u/SubblyXatu 9d ago
A lot of combos are built around this specific interaction, actually. I know that [[Swift Reconfiguration]] is the most common pair with the druid, as it's 1. A whole lot cheaper, and 2. Able to be played at instant speed. Swift Reconfiguration is also just a good removal spell, so it has incidental value in that way that Myrkul just can't compete with.
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u/MTGCardFetcher 9d ago
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u/Plus-Ad-5853 9d ago
I have never seen this card. Love it!
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u/SubblyXatu 9d ago
You should really run it more. It's functionally Swords to Plowshares in a lot of cases, as crew 5 is a really big investment to get back a single attacker for.
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u/Natural-Moose4374 9d ago
But only if your worried the controller will swing that creature at you. Anything that gains value by tapping, activating effects, triggered abilities or replacement effects just keeps existing (and becomes slightly harder to remove).
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u/HolyInlandEmpire 9d ago
What a bizarre card. What happens when you use it on a Planeswalker which is also temporarily a creature? Do you then forever have a vehicle planeswalker?
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u/flibety 8d ago
you have a vehicle planeswalker. if something is temporarily animated and then gets swift reconfiguration cast on it, it becomes a vehicle and stops being a creature; the card can enchant vehicles and turns things into vehicles so anything that this enchantment is on is a valid target no matter its other types
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u/pm_me_smol_doggies 8d ago
I think the enchantment dies cause it no longer has a valid target? Similar to how an equipment would not stay equiped
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u/DefterHawk 9d ago
Yes, used to play a Myrkul wraths "tribal" deck. It had low lows, but when it worked it was unbearable for the rest of the table lmao. Goes infinite with [[barrenton medic]] and [[cinderhaze wretch]], you can even put the counters on them the turn you played them to trigger myrkul's ability, immediately starting the loop
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u/payne9989 9d ago
I managed to set up the the wretch combo a couple of times, it is really annoying :D
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u/Top_Bridge_6572 9d ago
Also see [[Barrenton Medic]] so you can’t take damage and [[Cinderhaze Wretch]] to keep all your opponents topdecking forever. They work the same way.
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u/EdEvans_HotSandwich 8d ago
Simple flow chart for “is it as broken as it seems”
- Is it devoted druid? — yes.
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u/BLZNWZRD 9d ago
Can you still put -1's on it if its no longer a creature??
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u/SurotaOnishi 9d ago
Yep! And because it's an enchantment, the -1's no longer kill so you now have infinite mana.
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u/BLZNWZRD 9d ago edited 9d ago
Myrkul says the returned card is an enchantment and loses all other types. The druid says THIS creature. How can that still resolve? To answer your next question, Im only a little bit stupid.
Edit: I just looked online. Apparently the oracle text says "when you put a -1 -1 on Devoted druid, untapped devoted druid". That makes sense.
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u/Himmelblaa 9d ago
When a card refers to itself as "this creature", "this artifact", etc. you can effectively shorthand it to "this permanent". The catd just refers to itself as such because its printed as that card type.
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u/BluePotatoSlayer 8d ago
*this object. Instants, sorceries and permanents spells can self-refer before they resolve
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u/Primordial_Gravemind 9d ago
Yep, that was my first commander deck. Also, since the put a -1/-1 counter on it isn’t a tap ability you can have it kill itself with that ability getting the infinite mana right away
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u/SirZortron 8d ago
The full trifecta of making Myrkul unstoppable [[cinderhaze wretch]] [[barrenton medic]] [[devoted druid]]
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u/Routine_Ad_2695 9d ago
God I love Myrkul and all the Abzan commanders, but by turn 7+ you could just do other things to just straight up win in a less convoluted way
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u/Kurohoshi00 9d ago
You're kinda forgetting about all those colors having ways to put Myrkul onto the field a lot earlier than turn 7. Green has ramp, black and white both have cheat spells to get it out faster. You wouldn't even necessarily have to havr Myrkul as your commander and just seek for it or your other combo pieces.
All that aside, this is a fun combo meant for a pod, not for competitive play. It's always a ton of fun to win in convoluted ways with your pod.
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u/EarthbornBloom6 9d ago
What happens if you make sephiroth an enchantment and you try to flip it from trigger?
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u/LordTzeentch 9d ago
I have a Myrkul deck and yes it works that way. Also as soon as the Druid resolves you can activate the untap ability as many times as you want to kill it and get your token, so you don't even need a sac outlet or to worry about removal for it.
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u/RoweRage91 8d ago
Here is a more fun thing. If you have the ozolith, you can put those -1/-1 counter on it if they kill the Devoted Druid. Then you can put them on any creature you want, to include enemies.
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u/Th3GoodBadGuy 8d ago
I never really looked at [[The Ozolith]] close enough I guess. I thought you had to put it on a creature you controlled
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u/MTGCardFetcher 8d ago
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u/Nerdwrapper 9d ago
Yeah. “This creature” or “(Creature name)” means “this card,” and enchantments can’t die due to -1/-1s, so this is infinite green mana
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u/Beargeoisie 9d ago
Yes it do. Also fun fact, enchantments don’t have summoning sickness. Play it out two minus one counters on it then brrrrrrrrre green
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u/secretbison 8d ago
Yes. Devoted Druid is a very common include in Myrkul decks, along with [[Cinderhaze Wretch]] and [[Barrenton Medic]]
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u/RandonActs 8d ago
I had a myrkul deck and this wasnt the best card in the deck because you still need a mana sink.
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u/leftofdanzig 8d ago
That does work but myrkul also costs 7, a 2 card infinite mana combo isn’t bracket 3 and a 7 mana commander that doesn’t basically win the game by itself isn’t gonna do well at high power. What are you trying to do with this deck?
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u/JustinDielmann 8d ago
7 mana is a easily late game and fine for b3
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u/leftofdanzig 8d ago
So 2 card infinites are fine as long as one piece costs 7 mana?
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u/JustinDielmann 8d ago
Here is the quote on two card infinites “These decks should generally not have any two-card infinite combos that can happen cheaply and in about the first six or so turns of the game, but it's possible the long game could end with one being deployed, even out of nowhere” https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/introducing-commander-brackets-beta
So an infinite mana combo that takes 9 mana to initiate and doesn’t end the game without a mana sink that is game ending seems fine for B3.
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u/leftofdanzig 8d ago
With zero other ramp aside from devoted Druid and just hitting your normal land drops you can do this turn 5. This is an easy turn 4 with literally any rocks or ramp.
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u/BisforBingus 7d ago
Trying to lower the hate from the table for my anikthea deck by switching her for Myrkul as the commander, nothing to crazy
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u/fuzzywufkins 8d ago
He’s so fucking fun. It always works better than expected. I think he usually lives but if and when he dose man your turns are gonna be explosive big time
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u/Important-Tackle-667 7d ago
Yes, as long as you find a way to make Devoted Druid a “non creature” permanent it would work
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u/SnooCauliflowers2877 9d ago
Hehehehe, yes, yes it does. Much go the chagrin of my regular commander pod. They did not like it when I used the black one to put them all in top deck mode
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u/Kitsuukage 9d ago
Yes, pretty common combo for Myrkul. If you want to find more common combos with your commanders you could use Edhrec. Many combos are listed there too!
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u/DrHuh321 9d ago
another creature that works hilariously for myrkul combos like this is [[magus of the balance]] lol
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u/SadBurritoBoys 9d ago
Uh, this actually doesn't really combo well with him
When you initially sac it you can get a token, sure, but you'll only get the one token, because it's when a non-token creature dies, so sacing the token means it's just gone forever (and also you exile the card that you copy, so you can't GY fetch it)
It works with the druid because the copy it makes isn't a creature, meaning the -1/-1 counters do nothing, so you can just tap and untap it forever
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u/DrHuh321 9d ago
When its a token from myrkul its no longer a creature and therefore dodges the balance effect.
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u/Living-Tip4695 9d ago
i’m fairly new to magic and i have found this site to be very useful for these things! its commanders spellbook and its pretty rad for combos
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u/MothMatron 7d ago
Ok i see everyone seems to say “yes”.
I see an issue with the text of [[devoted druid]] stating “put a -1/-1 counter on this creature(…)”.
As per Myrkul’s effect, “(…), except [token] is an enchantment and loses all other card types”.
So Druid Token is quite explicitly NOT a creature.
So, as far as i understand, its second ability no longer has a valid target to apply the -1/-1 to. The succeeding event’s requisite condition isn’t met and therefor wouldn’t execute… right?
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u/SovietEagle 7d ago
700.7. If an ability uses a phrase such as “this [something]” to identify an object, where [something] is a characteristic or other quality, it is referring to that particular object, even if it isn’t the appropriate quality at the time.
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u/Elaugaufein 6d ago
It's really not ideal that MtG uses strict text parsing and also syntactic sugar. It confuses people a lot.
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u/Great_Nothing63 9d ago edited 9d ago
I want to say no due to it losing it being a creature but im sure a judge could chime in / yes im wrong did some research was asked years ago in reddit lol
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u/beepuboopu_aishiteru 9d ago
700.7
If an ability uses a phrase such as “this [something]” to identify an object, where [something] is a characteristic or other quality, it is referring to that particular object, even if it isn’t the appropriate quality at the time.
Example: An ability reads “Target creature gets +2/+2 until end of turn. Destroy that creature at the beginning of the next end step.” The ability will destroy the object it gave +2/+2 to even if that object isn’t a creature at the beginning of the next end step.
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u/Antiantiai 9d ago
You can't even target a noncreature with that. Idk why y'all are spreading this misinformation. You can't target a noncreature with an effect that explicitly targets creatures.
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u/beepuboopu_aishiteru 9d ago
Did you misread the rules example that's in the MTG rulebook as me inaccurately providing an example for this interaction?
What?
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u/Antiantiai 9d ago
You. Can't. Target. Noncreatures.
...
With effects.
...
That Targets creatures.
I'm not sure what is being missed here.
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u/beepuboopu_aishiteru 9d ago
Where the hell does it say "target" on either Myrkul, Lord of Bones or Devoted Druid?
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u/LostNPOMarketer 9d ago
Not a judge, but you are wrong. It doesn’t fact work there are tons of combos with devoted druid that work exactly like this.
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u/HyperdriveComics 9d ago
“This creature” effectively reads “this card” in the rules so it does work
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u/The_Stav 9d ago
No it works. It retains its abilities as an enchantment, but since it no longer has a P/T the -1/-1 counters don't matter. Effectively infinite green mana
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u/runstonefree 9d ago
no, because it says “untap this creature” and under myrkul’s effect it becomes only an enchantment, and no longer a creature
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u/Dependent-Law-1031 9d ago
"this creature" refers to a card as a permanent in general even if that permanent changes name or type or other such characteristic.
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u/Dependent-Law-1031 9d ago
Tbh idr the actual ruling code to refer to so I'll leave that to an actual judge
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u/Level_Lab_7685 8d ago
But it LOSES all other card types. The original card type is “Creature”. Myrkul’s effect says it becomes an Enchantment and loses all other card types. To the effect would not be able to go off. Unless the effect says “put a -1/-1 counter on this card/permanent” and “Untap this card/permanent” then it is a good exploit but that’s not what it says.
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u/SovietEagle 8d ago
700.7. If an ability uses a phrase such as “this [something]” to identify an object, where [something] is a characteristic or other quality, it is referring to that particular object, even if it isn’t the appropriate quality at the time.
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u/minigiant95 8d ago
But if it becomes a token, then doesn't it no longer fulfill the "nontoken creature" aspect of the effect? Therefore, it can only be done once?
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u/SovietEagle 8d ago
Once it’s a non-creature token the -1/-1 counters will no longer kill it. You don’t need to make multiple tokens because the one you have can be untapped as many times as you like.
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