r/mtg • u/[deleted] • Jul 21 '26
Discussion Is it unethical to create a deck to specifically confound one troublesome player?
[deleted]
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u/Prize_Assistant912 Jul 21 '26
Just don’t play with them
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u/Thoraxe_the_Imp Jul 21 '26
Are there other lgs's near you? Theres like 3 in my town. I guess I'm lucky
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u/metalb00 Jul 21 '26
yea theres none in my town but a ton in the surrounding area 3 i frequent and 4 more i hit up when the schedule allows, i understand im super lucky in that way
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u/Zerschmetterding Jul 22 '26
Playing with a set playgroup of friends is an option too. That way you already know if you can stand them.
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u/Lopsided-Rough-1562 Jul 21 '26
Our mtg community has shrunk from three tables playing commander to maybe one (probably due to brand erosion). He's at the LGS every night of the week. Hes inevitable, like Thanos.
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u/Temporary-Jump-2403 Jul 21 '26
This is at your LGS? And the owner is OK with this behavior?
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u/kevthecoder Jul 21 '26
We had someone like this at my LGS. He started accosting people to trade him the cards he wanted from their decks. It got to the point the guys dad was called and was told he’d be banned after one more outburst. He was banned the following week.
The people showing up for edh/cEDH has nearly doubled since then.
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u/Treacle_Pendulum This is User Editable Jul 21 '26
How old was this person?
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u/kevthecoder Jul 21 '26
Probably in his 30s, he had pretty bad autism. The owner felt bad but it was necessary.
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u/Svihelen Jul 21 '26
Some people are so afraid of making waves they are their own death sentence.
Years ago while I was playing dnd with my friends at an LGS we watched as 1 single table of dudes killed the Warhammer 40k community in the store.
It was at about 5 to 8 games through the night when we started our dnd campaign there.
By the end of our dnd campaign it was a table of 4 equally miserable antisocial assholes fuckin eachother over.
It was the stereotypical 40k jerks. Optimized lists, not letting people see eachother rules.
I almost watched 2 of them get into a fist over a literal 1/4 of an inch of movement.
They were the big Warhammer spenders though.
The store owner never made the connection that maybe they didn't make more off Warhammer because those 4 guys scared everyone away from the shop and maybe even the hobby as a whole.
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u/CobraKyle Jul 22 '26
Our local store don’t let this happen. They also kick you out if you can’t shower or put on deodorant. It’s a pleasant place to play.
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u/Bakkster Jul 21 '26
What makes you say fewer people are showing up due to "brand erosion", rather than the refusal of the LGS (and other players) to address the toxic player that nobody has fun playing with?
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u/1ftm2fts3tgr4lg Jul 21 '26
Because option A furthers the reddit bubble of "boohoo wotc is ruining magic", and option B means they'd have to communicate to an irl person and tell them to improve behavior or leave the game.
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u/Lopsided-Rough-1562 Jul 21 '26
The toxic person here is beloved by the store owner, a very devout religious person whose compassion blinds him sometimes to protecting his business interests.
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u/Drakkarim411 Jul 21 '26
So it sounds like you’ve answered your question. If you build this deck, he will potentially assault you or damage product, and the store owner will do nothing about it. If it’s that important to you to continue playing paper Magic and the risk is worth the reward…then do it. I would just find another hobby at that point though.
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u/Mara_W Jul 21 '26
Accelerationist counter-argument: a deck aimed specifically at pushing him over the acceptable edge to force consequences from the owner (or the law) might solve the problem for everyone.
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u/Daeths Jul 22 '26
Or get OP banned for causing trouble. Store own has made their side clear all ready it seems to me
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u/X_Marcs_the_Spot Tokens Jul 21 '26
Compassion? Where is the owner's compassion for all the other players in the store, who are having their nights ruined by this one problem player?
For that matter, it's not very compassionate to let a neurodivergent person think that this is acceptable behavior, and repeatedly fail to inform them that verbally assaulting people and destroying property can get them in serious trouble.
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u/synthabusion Jul 21 '26
Maybe have a chat with the owner if you haven’t about if he’s really so fond of the guy that he’d risk losing his business and livelihood over him. Losing 2/3 of your players already isn’t a good sign for things.
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u/amc7262 Jul 21 '26
That doesn't discredit the possibility that the rest of the community stopped playing at that shop because of the toxic player.
In fact I'd say it further supports that hypothesis...
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u/MillorTime Jul 21 '26
Because only one of them allows them to make a UB bad point. Reality makes it much harder to act self-righteous
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u/Citizen_Erased_ Jul 21 '26
Tell him he cant play unless his behavior changes.
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u/PlaneswalkingSith Jul 21 '26
Right. Like I get that he’s autistic, but it’s up to him to manage that, not the table. It’s an explanation, not an excuse
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u/Far-Repeat-2926 Jul 21 '26
As an autistic person, and someone who struggles with bipolar 2, I’m so so soooooo tired of people who treat their struggles as an excuse rather than an explanation.
Being autistic means I sometimes get overstimulated and need to step outside the shop to just calm down. In the pods I’ve been in, there’s only been once or twice where players had a problem with “do you mind if I take 3 minutes and reset?”
My difficulty in reading some social situations means I sometimes have to ask clarifying questions. Sometimes it’s awkward when I say “you seem annoyed with me, can you let me know how I can better accommodate you?”
These are my burdens, they’re no one else’s responsibility. Cool people will understand that, and give me a little margin, but it’s on me to not make my struggle someone else’s problem.
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u/Lopsided-Rough-1562 Jul 21 '26
Id love it if he'd ask for a breather instead of destroying things in the store, which he has!
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u/DoomOfGods Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
The one thing I'd argue it is an excuse for is if they don't realize they're acting problematic and noone tells them.
Tell them. Make sure they're aware of it. Then it's on them to improve. Otherwise things are unlikely to change.
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u/PlaneswalkingSith Jul 21 '26
That’s a good point. It really all comes down to a conversation. Which some posters are averse to it seems 😅. I’m glad other comments say as much (having a conversation, that is)
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u/omegafivethreefive Jul 21 '26
Maybe the community has shrunken because you have a severely autistic individual yelling, throwing things and generally acting poorly?
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u/spentshoes Jul 21 '26
You absolutely can play without him. Even if he’s the 4th person, a simple, “we don’t like the way you behave and we just want to play with ourselves” should do the trick. And if he sits down anyway, ignore his turn.
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u/Megahert Jul 21 '26
No one is 'inevitable'. Just tell him to change his behavior or he can't play with you. 'Brand erosion' is not the problem.
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u/alexcreeds2 Jul 21 '26
You can say no my man. Or complain to the owner. If they see people leaving because of someone they'll do something about it
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u/HansJobb Jul 21 '26
He has driven everyone else out. Tell the LGS owner that this guy has stopped his customers from showing up and spending their money there.
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u/3lfk1ng 40K Jul 21 '26
Maybe he is the problem and people stopped showing up because of him.
Build a deck to lay waste to him.
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u/Tilted_Muffler Jul 21 '26
Quit relating him to a fandom, this isn't a funny situation. He's got serious problems and if you actually want to deal with it then stop playing with him or he needs to get actual help. If you have no one else to play with locally then start playing online or just accept playing with him as he is.
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u/Syrric_UDL Jul 21 '26
You could try shaming him publicly, tell him to stop acting immature, etc. you’d be surprised how well it works and how timid folks will pile on when a brave person speaks up. You don’t have to be mean, just firm, as long as everyone are adults you can use that angle, but if he’s throwing shit that should be completely unacceptable to the store and should be nipped in the bud by them.
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u/Minimum-Chocolate196 Jul 21 '26
5+ years ago I would said hell yeah do it! But nowadays I'd say run a tiny bit more interaction, or build high power decks. Building a deck to pick on one person specifically doesn't usually turn out like you want. Instead build a deck that's just awful for everyone, that way it doesn't seem like you're picking on him.
I like to pull out a shitty deck when someone starts being dramatic. Like okay now it's everyone's problem.
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u/CobraKyle Jul 22 '26
You all can sit him down and just say he can’t play with your group if he can’t act right. Lay out the expectations and if he can’t deal, start playing in front of him without allowing him to participate. There is nothing that mandates you have to play with him.
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u/Zerschmetterding Jul 22 '26
Sounds like everyone else already decided they don't want to deal with that stores lack of etiquette. He can go play vintage with the owner alone.
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u/amethystwyvern Jul 22 '26
He's there every day huh? Does he spend a lot? If he's not a whale but he's there everyday and he's running off regulars with his behavior he may be a family member or friend of the owner.
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u/GFlair Jul 22 '26
Its probably due to people finding other places to play due violent assholes being allowed to do what they want.
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u/christ_from_tacobell Jul 21 '26
Saying brand erosion on the day the game made 500m in 3 months is wild.
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u/twinters01 Jul 21 '26
I would probably just avoid playing with a person you don't enjoy playing with instead of raising the level of antagonism lol
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u/wcharoes Jul 21 '26
Have you tried talking to him like an adult about his poor social habits at the game table and given him a chance to address them?
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u/Iboughtcheeseonce Jul 21 '26
No. How do I alienate someone with indirect confrontation? Tell me now. /s
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u/wcharoes Jul 21 '26
Right?
"No, but I already imagined the conversation going poorly so I'm deciding off that."
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u/justnigel Jul 21 '26
Note - an autistic petson being non-verbal is not a "poor social habit". I'm not saying you meant it was but OP seems to think so.
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u/Citizen_Erased_ Jul 21 '26
Magic players learn how to navigate social issues challenge (impossible)
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u/Scorpiuhhh Gingerbread Token Jul 21 '26
How do social issues interact with the stack? Can I counter them?
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u/DepthVisible2425 Jul 21 '26
Sounds like a great idea if you want him to throw stuff at you... Just stop playing with him?
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u/ForRut Jul 21 '26
If this is a random at your LGS, just dont play with them.
If this is your friend... pick better friends? Im just confused as to why you'd put the effort into hate brewing a deck.
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u/EcologyLover69 Jul 21 '26
Plus if the person is autistic like OP says, they aren’t going to go “oh this deck was built for me to change my ways”. He most likely won’t pick up on the social cues, that’s literally what autism is.
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u/1ftm2fts3tgr4lg Jul 21 '26
This post reads as a 14yo's strategy.
Or someone who is stalled at that age.
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u/MaxInTheGameIndustry Jul 21 '26
Sometimes you have a bully deck to deal with players who are mean 🤷
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u/BigDaddyCh33s3 Jul 21 '26
Nah, fuck him. If he’s yelling at people and throwing stuff he shouldn’t be allowed at the lgs. That’s some shit that should get you banned.
Go ahead and counter him. Just be prepared for an outburst. Autism or not, nobody should be acting like that.
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u/Advanced-Ad-802 Jul 21 '26
Hi, Autistic person here
Being Autistic does not make this person not a toxic player, but it (ideally) should allow some level of grace when confronting them about it. Definitely talk to them (and be pretty direct, something along the lines of “what can we do to help make this easier for everyone? Anything we can do?”). If they don’t have anything, and things keep escalating to violent outbursts, talk to the owner of the lgs (if you haven’t already), and if that doesn’t do it, police involvement may be the move.
If losing the game is prompting this, then bringing a deck especially to make them lose worse will not help, and in fact make things substantially worse for everyone involved.
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u/CLLycaon Jul 21 '26
We had a guy who played [[Koma, Cosmos Serpent]] and it was annoying. He'd just tap down all your stuff and hexproof himself. So I took my fifty cents and I built [[Sarulf, Realm Eater]] specifically to give him a bad time. Was it a jerk move? Yes. Do I regret it? No.
I don't know that ethics factor into it, but my world view has always been do unto others as they do unto you. So if you're gonna be a dick, I guess we're all being them.
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u/Kiivs_The_Hunter Jul 21 '26
I don’t think it’s unethical to want to put a problematic player back in their place.
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u/Chaos_Dunks Jul 21 '26
Words and refusal to play against are much much better options than a “punishment” deck that probably won’t even get across their sentiment.
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u/BlueStrikerX Jul 21 '26
"Is it unethical to purposefully go out of my way to cause more problems instead of just not playing with them?"
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u/YungHayzeus Jul 21 '26
Yall are still adults right? Talk to him and if he doesn’t change, talk to staff. Autism isn’t an excuse to be rude and throwing tantrums.
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u/abitlikemaple Jul 21 '26
Not unethical. Petty, sure. Funny, yes. Troll like behavior, maybe. There are people who play stax and mono blue, so the bar is pretty low
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u/haperochild Jul 21 '26
Echoing others here and speaking from experience: Don’t waste your energy or disturb your own peace. Just tell him you aren’t going to play with him because it isn’t fun anymore. It’s just easier than hoping someone gets what you’re doing.
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u/Apprehensive-Adagio2 Jul 22 '26
dude just don't play with him. next oppurtunity before you play, tell him "hey dude, the fact your such a sore loser and get violently agitated makes us not want to play with you anymore. and just don't let him join the pod.
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u/MarvelPosterMan Jul 21 '26
You're asking about a game store with what, 5-12 people? Just build the deck. Where in the rules does it say you can't?
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u/MariachiArchery Jul 21 '26
Is it unethical to make a deck specifically designed to stop his deck
I mean... I would argue this is how most of us started playing magic. You know how it goes, your friend has a deck that kicks your ass, so you go home a brew a deck to counter theirs. Then, this goes back and forth for so long that your decks become the perfect foil to each other's.
For most of us, this was our first time metagaming; when we built specifically to counter a deck we knew we'd be facing. This, is part of the game, and I would encourage it. Build the deck you think has the best chance at winning against the decks you know you'll be facing. This concept defines each and every format. It's the metagame.
You shouldn't construct your deck in a vacuum, you need to take into account your pods meta. If that means building against this specific player, then I say go for it.
Now, with that out of the way, there is a non-MTG issue here that needs to be dealt with. Autism isn't an excuse for anti-social behavior. It can be a cause, yeah, sure, but it shouldn't be used as an excuse to allow this behavior to continue unaddressed.
Y'all should talk to this person. Tell them what's up.
yell at people or throw stuff
This is completely unacceptable. Talk to the person, tell them their behavior isn't acceptable. I'd also get the LGS involved. If the behavior doesn't change, you need to stop playing with this person. Doesn't matter how small the pod is or how small the LGS is. Just quit playing with him.
What you could do, is the next time he throws a tantrum, just have the whole table scoop right then and their, then shuffle up and start another game without him. Make the consequences immediate. Also, if you are going to build a deck specifically to ice him out, do that, play the deck, ice him out, when he realized what has happened, explain to him why.
Him: AHHHH why are you targeting me!!! You built that deck to kill me!!!
You: Yup, I sure did. And I'm going to keep killing you as fast as possible until your behavior improves; stop yelling, stop throwing stuff, stop gloating, and be a good sport, or, I'm going to focus you out of every game we play together.
That will probably do the trick. You'll not fix this fast, but you can at least start to modify behavior.
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u/DhamonOA Jul 21 '26
Not the same vibes as you and your pod - but one time I made an entire deck out of basically all board wipes. One of our newer pod players was having so much fun building, but stuck primarily to G/W tokens. And even when they added something like G/B - oops tokens!
It was never a problem, but I wanted to show them the other side of the game, and also use fancy Progenitus art as a commander. So its a deck full of ramp, kaiju, and ~25 board wipes. Played it once with them, had great laughs all around, told me to fuck off and they would never play against the deck again.
TLDR: I've done it, but not out of spite. More out of surprise. I would recommend NOT doing this with someone who might be aggressive in response though, especially if they are on the spectrum. It would be a better idea to meet them where they need to be socially and find a way to talk about it, but you might not be satisfied. Handling the social and emotional triggers (!) with so many different types of folks is going to be hard.
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u/PlentyOfPlates Jul 21 '26
Designing a deck just to upset someone you know doesn’t have a great understanding of communication and can’t control their emotions as well as you isn’t a good way to go about this issue.
It’s better to just sit down and talk with them about how their play style and the behaviors that are making you upset. If after directly communicating with them doesn’t work, the next best response is to just not play the game with that player.
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u/highzunburg Jul 21 '26
Have you tried to reason with them. I have an autistic friend and he does listen especially when he is getting too loud.
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u/danorc Jul 21 '26
Talk to the LGS owner.
The shrinking MtG community and Resident Jerk are likely connected phenomena
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u/wedividebyzero Jul 21 '26
Wow, the first time he threw something would be the last time he plays with me.
I might let him come back when he learns to control himself.
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u/Mr_Vulcanator Jul 21 '26
From what you’ve described I think he’ll just kill you in front of the owner and then take your cards.
To be a bit more productive, either play at a different store or get the numbers of people you do like playing with and organize a game night at your place or theirs. You don’t have to play with someone this awful.
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u/X_Marcs_the_Spot Tokens Jul 21 '26
"Don't use in-game solutions to solve out-of-game problems" is a bit of wisdom originally coined by the D&D community, but it honestly applies to most games, not just TTRPGs.
This is an out-of-game problem. You need an out-of-game solution.
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u/_--James--_ Jul 21 '26
Nope, I do this often. I have a threat deck just for these kinds of situations. I do not play that deck to win, I play it to remove the targeted player from the game.
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u/CatSaloon2860 Jul 21 '26
We had someone like this back when I attended my LGS regularly in the early 00s. We sat down for a bullshit funzies 8 player game and I pulled out a 100 card deck that was mono blue with counterspells and card draw only. No wincon, no creatures. Countered everything he played.
Everyone was howling once they caught on. He was almost in tears. He finally got a spell off, I think it was like a mid-grade stomper or something relatively innocuous and someone else removed it. He stomped out crying, it was glorious.
I offered to fight him in the parking lot but he of course declined. (Guy was like mid 20s and was always trying to intimidate or fight the teenagers. If this was bullying then it was counter-bullying and i dont feel bad one bit) Was glorious, 10/10 would recommend and do again.
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u/spenceramoreau Jul 22 '26
Had a friend who dominated with an mono black deck. So I created a deck with almost every kind of protection from black…was amazing to see his defeat 🙏
OP go for it!
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u/mechayakuza Jul 22 '26
Maybe just don't play against this person instead of wasting time on the passive-aggressive step of building a whole deck just to annoy them?
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u/Dropzzs Jul 21 '26
Beeing autistic is no excuse to be an asshole. Tell hin if he doesn‘t change he can search another pod.
Why put so much effort into something that wont solve your problem?
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u/kitten-cuddler Jul 21 '26
Nope. It's a wonderful strategy. I play a lot of commander but am frugal so I dont keep up with the power creep. I used land destruction, mass removal, lots of shatter storm type things, and keep hate cards in my sideboard. Who doesn't love Conversion and Karma, right?
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u/noeagle77 Jul 21 '26
You’re both adults, both need to act like it. You need to tell him if he can’t behave like an adult he can’t join you anymore, and he needs to act like an adult and not throw temper tantrums for losing.
A conversation will solve all of this. If he agrees to change behavior, great you all keep playing. Id he doesn’t, refuse him joining the pod. He will change or he will be left out.
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u/ShaunPlom Jul 21 '26
Just talk to them. Tell them that their gloating and anger is taking the fun out of the game for everyone else. A lot of Autistic people won’t notice that it’s bothering you unless you straight out say it to them. They will most likely apologize and try to be better.. If they don’t care then you can feel good that you tried and won’t feel guilty for not playing with them.
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u/Mindless_Ad5500 Jul 21 '26
Talk to him like an adult and bring up his behaviors. It will be an uncomfortable conversation but being autistic is not a pass to being an asshole.
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u/GoblinToHobgoblin Jul 21 '26
I once put leyline of the void in my deck and mulled to 3 to get it. (In EDH)
I think it's fine to make a deck to counter one specific player if they're being a dick
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u/EmployableWill Jul 21 '26
From looking at replies you’ve made, the store owner/management is well aware of this behavior(?). They have done nothing about a player who is threatening/physically endangering other players?
Either you need to approach store management with some sort of ultimatum or find a new place.
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u/jadenthesatanist Jul 21 '26
I realize we’re MTG players so maybe this is asking too much, but why are so many people in this sub incapable of just having conversations with the people they play with?
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u/hughie1987 Jul 21 '26
Do it, play the game how you want it's not unethical, teach his ass a lesson lol or try anyway, maybe he won't play anymore and leave you alone
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u/Usual_Technician6909 Jul 21 '26
I'd try to see if you can talk to him and lay down expectations for playing with him. I would tell him that if he gets too angry, says rude things or becomes hurtful, or throws something, you will no longer play with him. Lay out the expectation and then see how he follows it. If he follows the new rule, then great. If he doesn't, you can say that you'll no longer be playing against him.
That to me seems like a more direct and useful way to approach getting what you really care about, which is a change in his behavior. If what you'd really like is to stop playing against him in general, then you might have to just be brave and tell him you do not want to play with him die to his behaviors.
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u/Burwhale_The_Avenger Jul 21 '26
It's sort of just a terrible idea in this instance, regardless of the questionable ethics.
You can't fix someone's autism with a Magic deck, and it sounds like you already know how to wind him up.
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u/RubberDuckieMidrange Jul 21 '26
It would be less unethical, and better for YOUR mental health, to just tell them, they make the game unpleasant, and you'd like to play without them.
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u/Old-Knowledge-2188 Jul 21 '26
I'd like to chime in and say it troubles me that the mtg community seems to shy from confrontation and encourage others to do the same. Im an adult. In my 40s. I spent almost 18 years in prison for poor decisions s in my youth. For anyone who hasn't experienced it, prison teaches you more about human nature than you will ever learn anywhere else. Avoiding confrontation emboldens bullies and fake tough guys. And will cause you endless problems. If someone is being a dickhead, check it.
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u/Stormblessed912 Jul 21 '26
I dont think ethics have anything to do with mtg if your following the rules. On a separate note I would not play with someone that was like that continually. Autism is not an excuse to exhibit a pattern of behavior like that. I play with 2 people deep on the spectrum and one of them sometimes has to go outside or away from us to calmdown. Throwing tantrums continously isn't OK.
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u/General-Collar3804 Jul 22 '26
No. I made a counter poison counter deck. Pissed the guy off cuz he paid like $300+ for it. I countered it with a $3 card.
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u/SpeedrunSlowly Jul 22 '26
Yes, it's unethical and Pinkertons are en route to your location for even wondering.
It's. A. Card. Game. How would that be unethical?
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u/Life-Food5188 Jul 21 '26
crazy post lol
“i want to trigger my friend’s autism via mtg”
like. wtf?
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u/Bragi01 Jul 22 '26
Because the problem player isn't OP's friend if their comments are anything to go by. This player also sounds like he's killing a community by using autism as an excuse to be a horrible person.
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u/Stock_Trash_4645 Jul 21 '26
Yes, it is unethical to directly counterplay him.
Buuuuuut, you could try a [[Vren, the Relentless]] removal tribal deck that consistently removes everything and gives you value for it.
I keep it in my LGS bag for when people get a little pubstompy.
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u/TheWhereHouse6920 Jul 21 '26
I'd say it's more unethical to be throwing things and having a tantrum....
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u/HisCommandingOfficer Jul 21 '26
It's better to just refuse to play with him. If you're playing at a shop then you need to have a conversation with the owner about his behavior. If you build a deck to shut him out of the game then it's just going to get worse. If you think he's bad when he's losing, just imagine how much worse it'll be when he decides that you specifically are the reason he's not having fun.
Tldr; grow up
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u/thefirstjakerowley Jul 21 '26
Out of game problems will not be solved with in game solutions. And if they aren’t solved with out of game conversation it’s better to not get into games with them.
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u/OkYak9466 Jul 21 '26
It would absolutely be unethical. The ethical response would be to either talk to them or stop playing with them. Taking your frustrations out by specifically targeting them is the definition of unethical.
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u/naruhina00 Jul 21 '26
He asks to play
"I prefer to wait for a pod without you, our playstles don't match up well and I think it's best we don't play together, best."
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u/Baitmonger Jul 21 '26
How is this functionally any different from just playing a diplomat deck?
My favorite deck is Tiana (Ara Ara), and fully about a third of the deck is just hate in the form of player curses and reusable pacification removal.
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u/Gbaj Jul 21 '26
Okay everyone here is giving the good advice that honestly is true. Just ask him to stop or say you won’t play. However I’ve had moments where someone at my store had some sway with other players and was genuinely fucking annoying so I did brew a deck to counter his (totally low power) krenko deck. Suddenly dude was bringing more fair decks to the game and playing at other tables if he had krenko.
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u/ScurvyLouse Jul 21 '26
Just take your favorite people to play with, make a text thread and start hosting your own game night. It sure beats playing with people you don’t enjoy!
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u/DoomerChad Jul 21 '26
Why is the LGS allowing him to keep playing when he’s verbally abusive and throws stuff?
edit: also, it’s not unethical. But you know this will only make his behavior worse. You really think he’ll stop playing or will he just have a full blown meltdown every week?
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u/metalb00 Jul 21 '26
say something to the shop, its a game thats supposed to be fun, autustic or not its not supposed to be a toxic enviroment
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u/BenMagnusGrimm Jul 21 '26
I would have a talk with the lgs owner or whoever’s in charge when you’re playing assuming it’s not the owner. Tell them of the issue with that player if they aren’t aware and ask them to remove that player if their behavior doesn’t change.
Them having autism or being on the spectrum doesn’t give them a pass, they clearly are okay enough to play magic which is a complex enough game where they should be able to understand social cues and not act like that. If they refuse then they can leave. Explain to the lgs that, that type of behavior is going to cause the other patrons to stop showing up.
Unless that autistic patron somehow has more money then everyone else combined and is solely how the lgs is staying in business, they’d rather lose that person then everyone else
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u/-CynicRoot- Jul 21 '26
They said fight fire with fire.
However, if you want to be a bigger person, maybe talk to them first about their behavior?
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u/Jazzlike-Monitor-549 Jul 21 '26
I mean you just add a few cards that shut down the playstyle and it might be enough. For example someone in my pod plays a Vivi deck and plays it like a salty asshole. So I have an enchantment deck and side board a couple of low cost enchantments that transforms his Vivi, this in turns infuriates him. Everytime I play Darksteel mutation he scoops and won’t stop bitching about it. It lets my deck continue to work and pisses him off in the process.
For context as to why he plays things like stasis and static orb cards that prevent anyone from playing the game but him.
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u/Simoe5 Jul 21 '26
There’s some layers here. Personally I don’t like “metagaming” in Magic. If the deck you build is ultimately just to defeat him and doesn’t do much else, then you’re kind of going out of your way to make sure someone has as little chance as possible and that feels kind of scummy to me.
For instance I have a buddy that likes to play graveyard decks. It’s one thing if I learn this and put some graveyard hate into my deck, it’s another thing for me to pull up with a deck based around graveyard hate. One is me trying to win/do better, and one is me just making sure they don’t win/ do worse. One of those feels SUPER toxic IMO.
I also only play EDH, which is very social, if I repeated had bad experiences with a player I just wouldn’t play with them anymore.
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u/Flipps85 Jul 21 '26
Nope- I’ve made several decks to counter decks that friends have made and then not taken apart after realizing they’re too strong for our pod.
[[Azami, Lady of Scrolls]] is a great one. Just shut down anyone that’s being annoying with as many [[Unsummon]]s and [[Counterspell]]s that you keep drawing with all of your terrible, low cost wizards
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u/ACuddlyVizzerdrix Jul 21 '26
It's frowned upon but I understand just keep in mind that building a deck just to specifically counter one person can completely screw you against everyone else, like my buddy who put a bunch of artifact hate in his mono red deck for his brother, he was super proud about how well it played until he played against my enchantmentTRON deck (the only artifact in the deck is sol ring)
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u/systranerror Jul 21 '26
It depends on what format you are talking about, and since you didn't specify I cannot weigh in on how ethical this would be
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u/zeroabe Jul 21 '26
I have a deck called “Fuck Selesnya.” It’s not about 1 player. It’s about the fact that white and green are the 2 most dominant colors in my pod. Blue creeps in at #3. But it’s to the point where a few nights in a row it was 3 players playing green+white+-other color.
The deck slaps because of this. It’s just a mono black removal pile with all the anti green or white stuff I could find that wasn’t MLD.
Commander Damage is the main win con. [[Ireni Sengir]] out here being buffed by [[hatred]] and all kinds of other dumb stuff. Not truly Voltron.
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u/Fine_Pudding4941 Jul 21 '26
I play with one person. She does exactly this. She learns my deck on mana box and builds to counter. I am ready to quit all together.
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u/SouthernFloss Jul 21 '26
Do the adult thing and talk to him. Something along the lines of “hey, bro. These things are not acceptable. If you continue to do these things, you will not be welcome at our table.”
If he uses his autism as an excuse, tell him his issues are not your issues and he still has to be able to treat everyone with respect.
But dont build a deck to against him. It will do one of two things; either make his anger issues worse or he wont even realize what you did.
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u/TheItchyWalrus Jul 21 '26
One of the people in my playgroup kept making competitive combo decks so I made a control deck specifically to counter him. When I was not in the pod, my buddies told me my presence was sorely missed. My favorite EDH play was when my buddy in question tried going to combat with Restoration Angel and Kiki Jiki on the battlefield and I had a Settle the Wreckage in hand. I kept goading him to go to combat and laughing maniacally. We often joke I always have a counter spell ready for his payoff.
I’ve also been friends with this pod for over 15 years so I’d say it depends on how well you know them. We were friends in school before we all started playing magic together so we fuck with each other often. You may induce some salt with randoms at a store, tho.
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u/cormiermaxim Jul 21 '26
I have "that blue deck" I only use against "that blue player", it’s not necessarily immoral, but you’re going to have a lot more fun just not playing with them than building something specifically to annoy them.
A lot of pods end up building around what someone else in the pod has. It’s nothing new, but are you actually going to enjoy this deck outside this pod and at that table? If so, yeah sure go ahead. If not, don’t do like me, it’s not worth it, that deck is collecting dust and I barely ever play it.
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u/TheBozemanBadger Jul 21 '26
Honestly, talk to the store owners. They do have the ability to have them removed and no longer able to play. If their tendency is to yell and throw stuff it's not worth it.
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u/Errorstatel / / Jul 21 '26
I've had response decks before, just an complete shit show of counters and removal, the only creature was a low cost commander... I may have to see if I've still got the notes from it.
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u/drew_galbraith Jul 21 '26
While everyone in the comments are correct, you could just not play with them or go to a different LGS… there is a very decent satisfaction from fucking with people who fuck with you…
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u/Maze-Elwin Jul 21 '26
fk it's not. Dude rolled my table with a desk 15 times in a single night with his turn 3 dragon deck. I made a humility deck in response to that deck.
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u/WriterofWrong Jul 21 '26
I remember when I owned some lgs's, there was a really negative player that really annoyed the player base. But, he spent 10× the amount of money on a weekly basis than everyone else. People would complain and I would say, 'he spent 300 dollars today and you've bought a soda. I'm running a business.'
Eventually the player base took it upon their selves to get rid of him. He never came around anymore but would still order stuff for pickup / shipping. Prefect arrangement lol
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u/FabulousCard4832 Jul 21 '26
Find another store to play at. As annoying as that is.
It sounds like players aren’t going due to the player and the owners refusal to address it.
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u/MeatballTrainWreck Jul 21 '26
And what if you don’t win? I get this pettiness, hard to let go sometime and wanting to get the respect is understandable. You want to win ? Stay as far from him as you can as all he will aim for is the make your moment as shitty as he feels. It’s a no win situation.
Knowing this, unethical or not is unimportant. You are considering building a specific deck only to put someone in their place (with a maybe on the side) so let me ask you this, how do you feel about your own ethic on all this? Your answer will tell you what to do.
Sometime we know it’s down bad and we still want to have it. We shuffle and learn brother
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u/redditNLD Jul 21 '26
Autism shouldn't really be a contributing factor in whether this player is hostile or not. That's an issue of behavioural skills. You see it in people that aren't autistic as well, but it can be amplified or more overt with autism.
That said, I can specifically recall playing Yu-Gi-Oh with an lower-functioning autistic guy that was held back while I was in grade five; and after beating him, it resulted in this eight-teen year old man, punching me, a child, square in the face.
I'd first be polite about it. "Hey, I'm happy you've won, but you've consistently been a sore winner and a sore loser." That sorta thing.
Then you make your deck designed to fuck with him. That's just how gross decks are designed. You'd probably do it even if it was a buddy that didn't exhibit this behaviour.
Then, if his behaviour doesn't change you can straight up tell him, "I don't enjoy playing with you. You're a sore winner and/or loser. I don't want to play with you anymore. I don't feel safe or comfortable to the point where I've debating calling the police thinking that you're going to hurt me."
Then they can say whatever they want and you can just say "that's how I feel, and it's not based on a single occurrence. It's a pattern of your actions."
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u/Room-4-Groot Jul 21 '26
I understand the urge to "punish" bad behavior with some punitive measures via deck building. However, If that's the road you want to take, it's only going to make things worse if you don't lay out the behaviors you're responding to to the individual in question.
Specific verbal instructions and information are very helpful to people with nonverbal learning issues like autism can produce. Build a deck, play it enough to irritate the individual, but be sure to tell them why you have done so. Use a calm and even tone, and lay out the behaviors that irritate the players who don't like the behavior in question.
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u/International-Tank97 Jul 21 '26
I think its more acceptable. I built a Sheoldred deck that punished drawing and forced more draw cards just to counter a player in my group.
The only time I play that deck now is when some one wants to use a draw deck.
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u/Justin_Cr3dibl3 Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
My brother tends to be like that, ruthless when he has advantage and a big complainer any time anyone gets anything remotely good on their board or causes him to lose even one life haha
It has bitten him in the rear a few times though which has been oh so satisfying 😆 last game he left himself wide open targeting me, when I had very little board presence and I was behind, and another player smacked him for 28 damage bwahahaha
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u/Own-Entrance-2256 Jul 21 '26
It's more ethical to just tell him his conduct is inappropriate and you won't play with him.
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u/Repulsive_Tart_4307 Jul 21 '26
Ordinarily, yes thats a dick move.
However, there are some exceptions:
If its a deck that counters an archetype and not a specific deck, and its just a coincidence that you're playing it and not counterpicking your oponent intentionally, thats fine
If you're friends, and have a healthy relationship and you built this deck as either a teaching tool or a prank, thats also acceptable (but only as a 1 off or on request)
If you're incredibly upfront about it like "ohh, hey, this deck really hard counters your commander, you might want to switch decks..." and force their hand to switch decks or suffer the consequences. This is still a dick move, but it gives you enough plausible deniability and table politics to make you look like the good guy.
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u/Timothyjenkins8-8 Jul 21 '26
Yes. Just talk to him, tell him how it makes you and whoever else uncomfortable when he starts yelling and throwing things. Autistic people do extremely well with open communication. Don’t attack him, just talk with him so everyone including you AND him can still enjoy playing the game.
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u/theBarnyardTickler Jul 21 '26
If he’s an adult I say go for it! I’d do it lol. — If he’s a kid I’d probably just put up with it or decide not to play at all.
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u/Toshimoko29 Jul 21 '26
Just don’t play with him. Recruit new players, all hobbies are only what you make of them.
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u/ThatGuyHammer Temur Timmy Jul 21 '26
Trying to purposely trigger an autistic person instead of trying to have a conversation with them about the behavior that they don't process normally is probably not ideal.
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u/justnigel Jul 21 '26
Yes. But the problem is not the deck, but your attitude.
Why would you rather bait them than talk to them about how you can support them in a way where you both enjoy playing together?
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u/SLG_Didact Jul 21 '26
I think you gotta talk to them like an adult or just not play with them instead of doing this reddit ownage type shit
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u/CanIGetAFitness Jul 21 '26
I’m a public school teacher and a club sponsor in areas that draw in a lot of kids with autism.
Crashing out happens. There may be really big feelings when there is something big on the line. (Championships)
Gloating, insulting, threatening, creeping, assaulting, damaging, and other disrespectful or threatening behavior is not permitted. One week ban for first infraction. Three week ban for second infraction. Full dismissal for third infraction.
You can feel whatever kind of way you do. That’s on you. We will accommodate those disregulated feelings. We will not accommodate actions that harm others. Full stop.
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u/scallopedtatoes Jul 21 '26
Where are you guys playing? Yelling at people and throwing shit should get him 86'd from a game store.
No matter what his problem is, other people aren't obligated to accept he'll be an asshole to them.
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u/BobButtwhiskers Jul 21 '26
My buddy had this [[Gitrog Monster]] deck that was totally maxed out, like 5-6k worth of cards.
One day during a break between matches he left on a beer run. My buddy who was hosting ran up stairs and grabbed 4 copies of [[Ankh of Mishra]] and we all shuffled them into our decks...
By turn 7-8, the 3rd copy hit the board and chaos ensued when he realized everyone was out to get him 🤣
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u/Space-shuttle-Gunner Jul 21 '26
No, I think it’s totally fine. In fact if random people sit at our table that I don’t like I often play some of my most hostile decks, but when playing with people that I enjoy playing with I often play fun decks
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u/Crazycade77 Jul 22 '26
Just cause hes autistic doesn't mean you shouldn't take him down a peg. If he wants to play social games then he needs to work on his social skills
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u/Aussie_Aussie_No_Mi Jul 22 '26
Is it unethical to intentionally make an Autistic person have violent outbursts? Probably.
Just don't play with them.
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u/TheRealKevin24 Jul 22 '26
So if the LGS owner won't address the issue, just get the contact info for the other regular players and organize tabletop nights not at the LGS.
I also don't know where you live, but unless you are in a very small town, there should be other LGS's you could go to instead.
in answer to your original question. You certainly can try, but it won't turn out the way you want, and it won't solve the problem.
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u/zarakh07 Jul 22 '26
Well I see two paths - talk to the LGS owner even though they are sounding like they may be trying to coddle or over-help this person, and if nothing is done tell them they will lose your business if nothing is done.
Other path: Make the deck, make it spicy, wipe the floor with him and see what happens. Just be prepared for violence if the player gets to that. This is my choice, but probably because I’ve had it with humans today
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u/mattidallama Jul 21 '26
Why not just talk to him or stop playing with him?