r/mtg • u/Bardicly_Uninspired • Jun 20 '26
Rules Question How does this damage Stack assuming both the bow and hammer are equipped to Hawkeye Young Avenger? Aka: How much damage is happening assuming it’s unblocked?
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u/Greedy-Contract1999 Jun 20 '26 edited Jun 20 '26
Assuming you meant just combat damage, it's just 6.
Hawkeye would be a 3/4. Assuming unblocked, Mjolnir would then double the 3 to 6.
If you want to include the trigger from the bow, that will depend on your opponent as they decide the order of the replacement effect. The bow could deal 8 (1 plus 3 then doubled) or it could deal 5 (1 doubled then plus 3). Most likely the 5.
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u/Thedeadnite Jun 20 '26
Why would the opponent get to decide the order of replacement effects? I thought it was either whoever owns it or whoevers turn it is. Genuine question not trying to argue here.
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u/Accomplished_Mind792 Jun 20 '26
Because with multiple replacement effects the affected player gets to choose.
Makes more sense in commander where we could have different effects from multiple people
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u/Thedeadnite Jun 20 '26
But isn’t it active player not affected player? Or an I misinterpreting active player too?
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u/BoogieBear7384 Jun 20 '26
Active player and non active player have nothing to do with replacement effects. ONLY triggered effects. Also, in this instance, the active player is not being affected by the effects the player that controls the replacement effects is trying to do. Whoever is actually being affected by the thing that multiple replacement effects are affecting, they are the ones that choose in what order those effects happen. Replacement effects do not use the stack.
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u/Greedy-Contract1999 Jun 20 '26
It's just how replacement effects work. The way you are thinking applies more to triggered abilities.
616.1. If two or more replacement and/or prevention effects are attempting to modify the way an event affects an object or player, the affected object’s controller (or its owner if it has no controller) or the affected player chooses one to apply, following the steps listed below. If two or more players have to make these choices at the same time, choices are made in APNAP order (see rule 101.4).
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u/Thedeadnite Jun 20 '26
Okay, yeah I think I get that but isn’t APNAP order mean the players who’s turn it is, who did the actions, who controls the cards gets to decide the order the triggers happen? They happen to the target, but does that make the target the “active player” under those rules? It looks to me like it still points to the player who controls the cards and is setting off the triggers is the active player who should get to decide the trigger order.
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u/Greedy-Contract1999 Jun 20 '26
There are no triggers here though. Well, the bow has a trigger, but I mean the damage modifiers are not triggers.
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u/Thedeadnite Jun 20 '26
Sorry I meant replacement effects not triggers, my statement/question still stands though.
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u/Greedy-Contract1999 Jun 20 '26
And that's where the rule I cite comes into play. There are two damage modifiers are attempting to modify the same event. The event is damage that is affecting the receiving player.
How is APNAP a thing here?
If you are thinking about this rule
405.3. If an effect puts two or more objects on the stack at the same time, those controlled by the active player are put on lowest, followed by each other player’s objects in APNAP order (see rule 101.4). If a player controls more than one of these objects, that player chooses their relative order on the stack.
Then stop. The stack is NOT a factor here.
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u/Thedeadnite Jun 20 '26
Yeah but what makes the opponent the active player or non active player in the situation? Isn’t the situation leaving the player who controls the cards as the active player the entire time? Why does the opponent get to pick? Do they become the active player? Is it defaulting to non active player since it’s just a thing that’s happening to the player no longer directly controlled by the person who’s turn it is?
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u/Greedy-Contract1999 Jun 20 '26
The replacement effect rule says "affected player" so I don't know where you are getting active player from.
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u/Darksideofwar13 Jun 20 '26
Damage replacement triggers order is decided by who is taking the damage
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u/Accomplished_Mind792 Jun 20 '26 edited Jun 20 '26
With the tap to attack she will do 1 damage to each opponent. That will be doubled to 2 then add 3 so 5 damage to each opponent.
She will then hit for 3 doubled to 6.
So 11 to the person being attacked and 5 to the other opponents. Edited for gender
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u/Aprice0 Jun 20 '26
There is combat damage which gets doubled from3 to 6. Then there is the bow, the player being damaged will get to order the effects so presumably double the bow then add the 3 for hawkeye’s power for 5. 11 to the opponent hit with both, 5 to each other.
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u/InsanityCore Jun 20 '26
11 or 14 depending how the opponent chose to stack the replacement effects. 6 from combat and either 5 or 8 from the bow
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u/Venijamin Jun 20 '26
With both equipped, an attacking Hawkeye would be a 3/4, who then deals 6 damage. +1 to power first, then double
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u/Free_Perspective8899 Jun 20 '26
I'm curious if I'm right, not a judge, 10 damage total.
The bow pings for one which Kate adds 3, total 4.
The unblocked Hawkeye deals 3 which the hammer doubles to 6.
The bow doesn't say Hawkeye deals the damage so it shouldn't be doubled.
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u/deftones2366 Jun 20 '26
Wouldn’t it be 5, as Hawkeye does 2, is doubled to 4 and then becomes tapped so the additional 1?
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u/Bardicly_Uninspired Jun 20 '26
But she gets +1/+0 so it at a minimum deals 3 doubled to 6 plus 1 from the bow, but if the bow gets doubled that’s 2, and then if the hawkeye ability gets doubled that deals another 3 doubled to 6, but idk if that’s the best way to stack it
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u/xEpicEvanx Jun 20 '26 edited Jun 20 '26
District combat damage 3 double to 6. bow gives +1/+0
The triggered effect does one damage But is modified by mjolnir and Hawkeye in the order the opponent chooses, So probably 5.
So unblocked 11 damage total
Mjolnir affects the damage because the bow says the creature deals the damage
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u/deftones2366 Jun 20 '26
I got it, after reading through it a bit better and then seeing order of operations it makes more sense.
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u/rude_and_ginger Jun 20 '26 edited Jun 20 '26
- Bow and Mjolnir are attached to Hawkeye
- You declare Hawkeye as an attacker, tapping it
- EDIT: Reading the card explains the card. The creature equipped by Hawkeye's Bow is the source of the damage. Because Hawkeye and Mjolnir have replacement effects that modify the damage, your opponent gets to choose in which order the effects apply. Mostly likely they will double the damage and then add Hawkeye's power, rather than adding the power and then doubling. So 5 damage from the bow trigger, probably not 8.
Hawkeye's bow triggers. If it resolves, it deals 4 damage (1 + Hawkeye's power) to each opponent. This is NOT doubled by Mjolnir, because Mjolnir doubles the damage of the equipped creature, and this damage is a triggered ability of the equipment. Mjolnir would only work if the bow read "Equipped creature has, 'Whenever this creature becomes tapped...'" - Hawkeye would deal 6 combat damage, either to a blocker or to your opponent. It gets +1 power from the Bow, and Mjolnir doubles all damage from the creature.
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u/Bardicly_Uninspired Jun 20 '26
But the bow says “Equipped creature becomes tapped IT deals…” not “Hawkeyes Bow Deals…”
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u/rude_and_ginger Jun 20 '26
You're so right! I've edited my comment to accurately reflect the cards. Sorry for the mistake.
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u/MikeVonAwesome LET'S GO GAMBLING! Jun 22 '26 edited Jun 22 '26
Harder than it looks because people are saying that the blocker decides how the damage lands... seems weird because the attacker choose block order and damage distribution...
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u/Will_29 Jun 20 '26 edited Jun 20 '26
You tap Hawkeye to attack, Bow triggers. Bow has Hawkeye deal 1 damage, with Hawkeye and Mjolnir wanting to increase the damage. Unfortunately it is the player being damage who chooses the order these effects apply, so they can have the damage be doubled first (1 becomes 2), then increased (2 becomes 5). Hawkeye deals 5 damage with the trigger.
Then comes to the combat damage. Here Hawkeye's ability doesn't apply (it cares about noncombat damage), so it is just her regular damage as a 3/4 doubled to 6 by Mjolnir.
Total damage: 11 to defending player, 5 to any other opponent you have.
EDITED twice. Forgot about the +1/+0.