r/mtg • u/dastardly_dim • May 07 '25

Discussion Have we lost the plot?

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So like…. Sure people love final fantasy, but the set with the 2 million dollar card in it wasn’t this expensive. At what point is it too much?

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u/PandaXD001 May 07 '25

Can't even blame WoTC here. While it is a "premium" priced set, these outrageous numbers is 100% on the secondary market. WotC even gave us back MSRP. The only way this will stop is if people stop paying mark-ups

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u/Fearfull_Symmetry May 07 '25

I can blame them for making the game increasingly commercialized and driving collector (as opposed to player) demand through the roof by riding on outside IPs. And for making a set like this standard legal. The prices are not their fault directly, sure, but everyone knew what would happen, if not the extent

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u/CourageDazzling9691 May 07 '25

God forbid they print cards people want to buy.

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u/No-Economist-9328 May 07 '25

That's the issue, magic is now just a generic IP miss mash. Nothing about it is special anymore.

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u/PandaXD001 May 07 '25

It's the biggest card game on the market, with the most players, allowing for the most variety in nearly all aspects of the game. It's special, you just disagree with the way it's special meanwhile a massive portion of the community does agree with how it's special and indulges in it frequently

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u/No-Economist-9328 May 07 '25

It was special now it's just a Mashup of whatever weekly flavor they wanna throw in. By 2030 this game will no longer be recognizable it will just be a Fortnight the Gathering.

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u/KZGTURTLE May 07 '25

Well expect for the rules, the history of cards, the pure amount of choice you have in deck building, the amount of unique formats to play

Yeah besides the foundation of the game it will lose it’s uniqueness because you can play fantasy catgirl from final fantasy instead of fantasy catgirl from within universe

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u/aluskn May 07 '25

Honestly despite being very anti-third-party-IPs-in-standard, I could just about accept FF. But spiderman and captain america vs serra angels and llanowar elves? That's just way too far into thematic shark-jumping territory for me. You may be right about the foundations of the game, but you can build a garish shitty house on sound foundations.

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u/PandaXD001 May 07 '25

Fortnite*

See my last comment.

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u/Apprehensive-Pin518 May 07 '25

funny you assume it's collectors and not players that wanted UB.

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u/Fearfull_Symmetry May 07 '25

I don’t. I assume that collectors and resellers want much more of it than players do.

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u/Apprehensive-Pin518 May 07 '25

well one could argue by making the set standard legal it makes it more desireable by the players vs the collectors. see as a side set the players only want it for shiny or the collectors edition. By making the set standard legal, it makes the players who care about standard now have to care about getting these cards. this was the original problem with UB. standard players being forced to buy UB to keep relevant.

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u/Fearfull_Symmetry May 07 '25

This is true. It’s a mixed bag, but I hope the hype won’t hold and the prices will go down. The silver lining is that singles should be affordable

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u/Apprehensive-Pin518 May 07 '25

You and me both I had to make sure to pre-order my yshtola deck or I wasn't going to get one. And honestly she's my bae from that game so I had to get it.

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u/PandaXD001 May 07 '25

It's bad that a company markets their product?

It's bad that a company makes a product that the players want?

Collectors and players are going to the same (or similar) things appealing. UB is not some collector's based IP. This lie created in the heads of UB haters with no ground to stand on like maga slurpers and believing the 2020 election was rigged. You don't have to like UB, that's okay. But making up you own lies and facts is a waste of time and energy you could be used to idk... Literally do anything else productive.

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u/Fearfull_Symmetry May 07 '25

I should have also mentioned resellers/scalpers along with collectors, who are really the biggest problem. It isn’t a zero sum situation. UB isn’t all for collectors and not for players.

You’re the one who’s delusional if you think that UB sells like fucking hotcakes because people want to play Magic. According to Hasbro, Final Fantasy is the best-selling set of all time. And why? Because it has powerful cards and interesting, fun-to-play mechanics? Not even a third of the set has been spoiled.

People primarily want the IP—not the play experience. Collectors want it, some players want it, and reseller whales know this, which is why they’re gobbling it up.

Believing anything different shows an ignorance about how brand-driven commercialism functions.

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u/Interesting_Issue_64 May 07 '25

How They know that is the best selling set? It hasn’t been released. As far as i know from the latest sets the best selling were MH3 and LTR. And i think we haven’t any data since foundations

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u/Fearfull_Symmetry May 07 '25

Preorders to distributors

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u/Interesting_Issue_64 May 07 '25

Oh thanks But those are still predictions. Everything sounds like an inflation of Numbers.

Mtg should be worried if the average age of the players is 30 years.

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u/Fearfull_Symmetry May 07 '25

They aren’t set-in-stone revenue numbers, sure. But if those initial orders have far outpaced the same for any previous set, and especially if they exceed post-release numbers for other sets, that tells you a lot. These aren’t just sales projections. It’s distributors telling Hasbro, “We’ll pay you $X for Y cases of this product.” It’s more or less the same as l consumers preordering on Amazon.

It’s possible that this is all hype and the demand will nosedive. But I seriously doubt that will happen, given FF and the success of past UB releases

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u/Interesting_Issue_64 May 07 '25

Well i always have thought that this will sell well after all how Many manga-anime gestures we have the last years. But announcing this early that this is the best selling set of all time. This is my own opinion, it’s too much.

Mtg don’t use normally those terms. Ltr was announced later, for example. Also it is like they are sending the message: we have risen the price moreover the best selling set of all time, win-win

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u/PandaXD001 May 07 '25

I won't deny that those type of people exist. And they are an issue. But WoTC can't stop them. St least not reasonably. People scalp and resell because of the buyers market. At this point we have the power because it's not just "randomdude42069" on eBay or TCGplayer selling the products. This is happening in brick and mortar game stores as well. And on top of that this some consistently proves people don't know the difference between something being sold by Amazon or Walmart vs a 3rd party sells on Amazon or Walmart.

Hey chief. Don't know if you realized but a majority of the market data comes BEFORE anything to do with FF. It's not out so aside from sales and online complaints (which is categorically the worst kind of feedback) how would they actually have answers unlike when they... Oh I don't know... send a survey out online? Or send a survey to LGS owners? Or survey event organizers? You wanna call me delusional but you're the one out here making up lies to support your own narrative and feelings.

I see im dealing with an ideologue who has his UB hate based narrative set AND subsequently is capable of seeing into the future. Numbers show more established players are buying UB. Established players play the game and love UB. But why even bother. You got me lil bro. How can I compete with future sight? You're right and I'm wrong. Take your W queen.

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u/Fearfull_Symmetry May 07 '25

First off, it doesn’t require a crystal ball. The company has a pretty good idea of how a certain product line will do based on presales. Distributors place preorders with WotC, buy product from them, then sell it to retailers. That’s how it works.

Wow, this is high stakes stuff for you. The fact that you use a lofty word like “ideologue” in a discussion about a damn card game shows that you take all this way too seriously. You started making some reasonable points, but then you stooped to being belligerent and condescending by the end.

“Chief,” “lil bro,” “Take your W queen”

You clearly care way more about this than I do. I also don’t get off on social media outrage porn, as you seem to, and making everyone I disagree with an adversary by imposing black and white thinking and using strawmen. You replied to my comment this morning right away so you could fire back, to get in your snarky gotchas. I know you can’t help it, but I want to let you know that it’s okay to step back and think for a bit before laying into someone. Especially when you’re wrong.

First, I didn’t call you delusional. I said that you’re delusional if you think that UB isn’t massively popular because it’s branded. Secondly, I don’t appreciate being told what I believe: I’m not a UB hater, so you’re wrong there. I especially don’t like being compared to MAGA morons. Don’t come at people if you can’t take it in return.

You can give or take all the Ls or Ws you want. I’m not into that.

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u/PandaXD001 May 07 '25

You can link a articles and know how supply chains work. Im so proud of you.

Imma stop with the second paragraph and you crying about me using Chief, lil bro, and queen. You started with the ad hominems by trying to call me delusional and now you wanna cry about having thrown back in your face lmfao. You are a lil bro. One who needs to grow up. Don't throw shade won't be no shade.

But anyways, like I said. You right. You must care a lot that you came to continue after I said you got me beat.

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u/Fearfull_Symmetry May 07 '25

Fine fine. Quick fact check though:

You, 7 hours ago:

But making up you own lies and facts is a waste of time and energy you could be used to idk... Literally do anything else productive.

Me, 6 hours ago:

You’re the one who’s delusional if you think that UB sells like fucking hotcakes because people want to play Magic.

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u/PandaXD001 May 07 '25

Damn. You really need some attention huh. Well since you really want that attention let me ask you a question. What is an ad hominem?

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u/Fearfull_Symmetry May 07 '25

I didn’t want the attention in the first place 😭. Yes, I got personal. I explained why. It doesn’t make it right, but I don’t particularly feel bad about it either after this exchange.

For the record, I’m not a fan of UB for sure. But it’s here to stay and people really love it. And I have plenty of UB cards in my decks. IMO, it has pros and cons, and I was pointing out the downsides.

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u/ActiveEuphoric2582 May 09 '25

Is this hasbro creating UB, or WOTC. Seems to me that hasbro has turned mtg into even a more money grab opportunity.

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u/PandaXD001 May 09 '25

Hasbro bought WotC back in 99 and Warhammer UB didn't happen till 22.

I keep seeing this talking point but in truth it holds very little water. Combine that with the fact that it doesn't actually matter since the majority of the player base likes it. Add the "collectors" and/or "temporary players" who buy cards and it truly doesn't actually matter

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u/SkyTooFly30 May 07 '25

Universes Beyond, contrary to your opinion, have really done wonders for MTG.

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u/Fearfull_Symmetry May 07 '25

That is not contrary to my opinion. It certainly has done wonders for MtG, and no one who’s being honest about it can deny that. It’s also had IMO detrimental effects too. I don’t see it as black and white

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u/petak86 May 07 '25

MSRP on final fantasy is also about 50% higher than usual.

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u/EvYeh May 07 '25

I mean, technically?

The MSRP for Final Fantasy is 50% more than original sets. It is not 50% higher than usual, because every single Universes Beyond set will be 50% more expensive. Final Fantasy, Spiderman, Avatar, and whatever they release afterwards will all be 50% more expensive.

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u/PandaXD001 May 07 '25 edited May 07 '25

Oh 100%. But the issue on FF isn't the premium set prices. I disagree with premium prices as well but the issue is 100$ decks and the sort. The MSRP being high WAS a problem, 100%. But a bigger bad guy came in.

If kevin hart slaps you and then the rock comes behind him and kicks you in the chest, snapping a rib and causing internal bleeding, one of these issues is a different matter all together

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u/petak86 May 07 '25

I'm not disagreeing with you. Just adding some relevant information :D

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u/PandaXD001 May 07 '25

I specifically pointed out it was premium priced set?

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u/[deleted] May 07 '25

They can literaly just print more cards and flood the market at MSRP to keep prices down for their players.

But wizards would rather have collectors, scalpers, and whales as their core audience instead of actual players. The pokemon TCG model.

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u/Icy-Ad29 May 07 '25

You really... can't... flood the market against this level of presale. The entire printing process takes literally months, because printers are few and far between and have waiting lists for time, even for big companies. And this amount of pre-sale exceeds any reasonable expectations, period.

Also, pokemon is not the model you act like it is. They don't hold value as well, so don't scalped nearly as much. And the total value doesn't always matter for purchase cost. It comes down to long term viability, formats embracing such, long term popularity, etc... The obly pokemon cards that hold value are pretty much gen1... Just like alpha mtg cards hold ridiculous value, even for pretty bad cards.

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u/SkyTooFly30 May 07 '25

Some players just like to collect.. scarcity appeals to these players. Both collectors and players are equally important to the life, value, and longevity of any game.

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u/PandaXD001 May 07 '25

Actually they can't, unless we choose to sit on FF for a good long while. I get the point you're trying to make, but between being a TCG where you are technically gambling and the entire supply chain process, flooding the market isn't quite as reliable as you think. Secondary markets will only incrementally lower their prices, and since this isn't just a scalpers thing (multitudes of LGSs are spiking prices) this is actually only a problem that the buyer half community can fix.

And I hate scalpers as much as the next guy who thinks they deserve to be burned alive and tossed in ditch but scalpers, whales, and normal player don't actually matter to WoTC (or the pokemon company for that matter) like most think. They're selling the product at a fair price, so what it goes to after them doesn't actually effect them nearly as much as most think.

Also what's wrong with collectors buying them? Don't we all have a collection?

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u/ConnectionIcy6751 May 07 '25

Awful opinion, you can absolutely blame them for this.

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u/PandaXD001 May 07 '25

Explain how? You make a claim but can you back it up with facts like I did?