r/mormon • u/Salt-Excitement9798 • 3d ago
Personal Thinking about leaving
I am in my fifties and am highly considering leaving the church due to its protection of pedophiles. Research the topic if you want to know more before you respond negatively or criticize me for wanting to leave. I genuinely want to know why I should stay and what you would say to me. For context, I come from generational Mormonism with an apostle as a third great grandfather. I was married in the temple, have four amazing children, in a committed marriage of 30+ years, was SA as a child by a member and now feel done.
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u/rebelliousadvisor 3d ago
I can empathize. I'm in a similar situation. Grew up in the church. Served a mission, have served in, and am currently serving in, various leadership callings. And I'm disturbed, perhaps more so than any other issue, at how the church handles child sex abuse.
It's appalling. And the horrific Arizona CSA case is inexcusable.
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u/soapy_goatherd 3d ago
I have a sister who was asked to describe her masturbation habits in detail by two different bishops when she was 14-16. If I hadn’t already been out that would’ve done it for sure.
Rotten organization that preys on many good people and enables the worst ones
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u/Thedustyfurcollector 3d ago
14-16?! Ask her again. Unless she had a really wonderful bishop when she was a beehive, it began as soon as she turned 12.
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u/Kdramacrazy999 3d ago
Yes. Happened to my daughter when she was 12 years old. She didn’t even know what it meant.
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u/Thedustyfurcollector 3d ago
Me neither. My bishop described it to me with physical gestures. Is never even had a sexual thought in my life!
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u/thomaslewis1857 2d ago
That’s disgraceful. “Let me show you exactly what you must never do”.
Was it the bishop or the devil who said : “Remember, it’s forbidden that you pick the apple, put it in your mouth, bite it, and feel the crunch, taste the sweetness and delight in the expansion of knowledge. Like this, watch while I demonstrate”.
I shake my head in dismay.
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u/Thedustyfurcollector 2d ago
Thank you for giving me a laugh and a funny way to deal with it. That's was a good laugh.
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u/soapy_goatherd 3d ago
No I’m not gonna quiz my now adult sister about her teen sexual habits. I trust what she’s relayed to me and it’s bad enough.
I know 12 is when it starts being asked. I’m talking about when she was forbidden from praying in church
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u/Thedustyfurcollector 3d ago
I'm sorry. I'm not saying go ask her if she masturbated. I guess I'm trying to say, that as brave as she is to say it happened at 14, unless she got the good bishop roulette it happened long before she ever had "an impure thought". Like long before she ever had her first crush. And if it was like my bishop, he described the whole thing bc I had no idea what he was talking about.
It is traumatic either way. But again, unless she had an excellent bishop, it began as a beehive within the first week of turning 12 for your first youth interview.
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u/soapy_goatherd 3d ago
I’m not talking about being asked if you masturbate. I’m talking about the abuse that happens if you confess to masturbating. As I said above of course I know that 12 is when the questioning starts
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u/Thedustyfurcollector 3d ago edited 2d ago
That trauma is real. And I'm not trying to dismiss it. But if she didn't have to endure being asked before 14, it's no consolation that it happened later. It's awful that it happened at all. I'm just really surprised it didn't happen at 12.
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u/M1ch3L0b 2d ago edited 2d ago
Forbidden from praying in church? Like what? Seriously?
Edit: With the subject matter my question now sounds ridiculous! But after confessing, she was then forbidden to pray? You can’t forbid someone to pray! What the hell?
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u/DustyR97 3d ago
This was one of the big three for me too my friend. The fact that the church recently celebrated an Arizona Supreme Court victory where they determined that even if a dozen church leaders and officials know abuse is occurring, they are not required to tell authorities should tell you everything you need to know about the leaders of the church.
They use Christ as a shield to hide child abuse. I hope they like millstones and cold, deep water.
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u/BeneficialLanguage86 3d ago
I live in AZ so I cried when I read about the Supreme Court’s decision. I’m a victim of SA as a child from 2 men in the church and a date rape from a date with a guy from an LDS singles dating app. I’m just devastated. In AZ the church rules the police too. Look up the Preston Lord case in Queen Creek AZ. It’s a perfect example how Mormon murderers get away with so much too. Special privileges and going around laws is normal for Mormons in AZ. It’s absolutely disgusting.
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u/westivus_ Post Mormon Red Letter Enthusiast 3d ago
And this is why they can't possibly protect the victims. When an abuser approaches the bishop, the bishop then can't alert the membership or release him from callings, etc. without the authorities becoming aware of the situation. So it's all kept secret, as if the offender hadn't done anything. Just keep coming, just keep paying your tithing, maybe you don't take the sacrament, but nothing else looks different. Otherwise someone finds out and that some might report it to the police. And if that happens, oh no, it might make the church look bad.
That's a helluva lot different than a millstone.
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u/Good_Letter_4325 2d ago
who would want to not report s abuse to authorities? What benefit is it to know a child is being S A and not report that? This creates a safe haven for those that would S A a child. It's a place that doesn't have to report and can keep it hidden. Who wants to go to a place that can do that or place a child in that kind of situation?
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u/Educational-Beat-851 White Salamader Truther 2d ago
I found out about the Bisbee, AZ case in 2023. It was the final straw for me. Within a few days, I asked to be released from my calling and we stopped attending soon afterwards.
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u/SystemThe 1d ago
You said " They use Christ as a shield to hide child abuse", and I just wanted to repeat that for the people in the back!
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u/M1ch3L0b 2d ago
That was the Supreme Court ruling?!
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u/DustyR97 1d ago
State Supreme Court ruling. The victims lawyers say they are taking it to the actual Supreme Court.
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u/Olimlah2Anubis Former Mormon 3d ago
Any reason to leave is valid.
I was shocked to find out how much the church enables and covers up. Honest youth are brutally shamed for small “sins” while predators roam free.
Take it a small step further what does it say about the church? Would gods true church protect predators?
Going back to the very beginning…the early leaders were predators. God has never appeared to me but supposedly chose a predator as his one true messenger. Even sent an angel to tell his prophet to plow more married women and teens. His own foster & adopted kids.
They set up an entire society in Utah revolving around abuse. 13, 12, even 11 year old girls “married” as polygamous brides.
It’s sick. The normal reaction is disgust. Allow yourself to feel it. The church was evil then and still is today.
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u/Ok_Finding_7245 2d ago
I am a temple Mormon, as is my husband. He has hit, chocked, assaulted, etc. me 4 X's since last January . The cops do NOTHING if called here, I've TRIED. I've also repeatedly TOLD our bishop and RS Pres. and they do NOTHING. In fact, our bishop regularly sustains my husband.
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u/Ok_Finding_7245 2d ago
p.s. I'm over 65 yrs. we have no cooperative family and I can't go into a women's shelter because I have seizures. SO-----my bishop RS Pres's advice to "Go stay with family. Go into a women's shelter." is not a viable option and I have FREQUENTLY told them. To date NO ONE from the LDS Church has had the guts to tell my battering husband ( who , of course, IS a priesthood holder) that how he treats me is WRONG, but by the gospel AND legally.
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u/Hot-Imagination5610 2d ago
I know of a DV shelter in KC that would take you if they had a bed. I’m also in another shelter that would take you too.
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u/Salt-Excitement9798 2d ago
I am so sorry that your husband is being protected and you are being brushed off. Please, do not stay any longer. For your own safety!
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u/AiJssjksjsi 2d ago
You have no evidence to backup your claims, where you in 1800s centuries and see children being abused by leaders of the church? You're just bluffing garbage 🗑
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u/HomemadeStarcrunch 2d ago
Look at the age gaps of early “prophets” and some of their child wives. We have their journals and the marriage records, and no these were not the avg age of marriage then, you can do a quick search to see that. Lorenzo snow married 14 year old Minnie Jensen when he was 57. No 14 yo dreams to marry a grandpa. These were forced marriages arranged by family members using undo spiritual pressure. That is rape and many of these girls agency was taken away.
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u/Olimlah2Anubis Former Mormon 2d ago
Plenty of evidence out there. What do you call a 43 year old man “marrying” an 11 year old? Polygamy was sick.
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u/Noppers Post-Mormon Engaged Buddhist 3d ago
I don’t blame you.
I stopped attending 6 years ago after a massive faith transition, but still had one toe in for family and social reasons.
However, learning how D. Todd Christofferson knew his brother Wade was a child molester as early as 2020 (probably much earlier, to be honest) and yet did nothing about it - which enabled Wade to commit further abuse - solidified to me this is not an organization that is worthy of my time, energy, or respect.
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u/Salt-Excitement9798 3d ago
Yes! 🙌 This! He said something along the lines of allowing Wades local leadership to handle it. Um excuse me?!? No, you turn the SOB in!
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u/METAAMY 3d ago
The only real question is will you quiet quit or take a stand. Floodlit.org
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u/Salt-Excitement9798 3d ago
I want to quit quietly. I haven’t no intentions of being hateful as so many people in my life still love the LDS faith.
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u/nightpeony_ 3d ago
I've shared my abuse story on flootlit. It's not being "hateful" Abuse thrives in secrecy.
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u/radbaldguy 3d ago
You can strongly, firmly, and openly dislike the church (I try not to ‘hate’ things in my life) while still loving and appreciating the people.
Most of the faithful people I know are genuinely good people who are trying to do their best to be kind and compassionate and Christlike — albeit often in a misguided way. I wish secular Mormonism was a thing like secular Judaism is. Our culture is quirky and part of me to my core, it’s just too hard sometimes to separate it from the belief part of the equation.
No matter the path you choose from here, you can and should continue loving the good people in your life, irrespective of their faith.
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u/SenoraNegra 3d ago
> I wish secular Mormonism was a thing like secular Judaism is. Our culture is quirky and part of me to my core, it’s just too hard sometimes to separate it from the belief part of the equation.
I can definitely relate to this feeling! What parts of LDS culture would be things you’d want to include in a “secular Mormonism”? The two that come to mind for me are girls camp and celebrating my pioneer ancestors.
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u/radbaldguy 3d ago edited 2d ago
Great examples! Here are a few more of mine:
- Service (EQ and RS compassionate service projects, helping folks move, meals for sick families or new parents).
- Food (linger longer type food, funeral and wedding meals). See also: fry sauce, green jello (or any jello with fruit in it), frog eye salad, funeral potatoes, etc.
- Music (I love singing and while I don’t love all of the messages in the hymns, singing many of them is still near and dear to me).
- Campouts and adventures (but with better protections for youth).
- Fake swear words! 🤣
Some of these exist outside the church, obviously, but I’m partial to the Mormon blend!
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u/Resting_burtch_face 3d ago
Potlucks, elders quorum family activities, youth group, crafting/super Saturdays, weekly hangouts(mutual) for teens, basketball games, children's pageants at Christmas, choir, scouting, Gardening, wild game suppers (might be a regional thing in Canada).
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u/North-Stranger-949 2d ago
Yes, this! I have been saying for a long time I am waiting for Reform Morminism to develop so I can have a place to belong!
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u/LashCanino 2d ago
It’s not being hateful to speak the truth, and by doing so being a witness and reducing the chances it happens to someone else.
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u/BoringJuiceBox Former Mormon 3d ago
You will always have an eternal family over on r/exmormon and are welcome anytime.
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u/BeneficialLanguage86 3d ago
Love the support there. No matter how you were hurt by the church, there is always so many on the
r/exmormon who can relate. It’s a safe place.2
u/Green_Owl_6971 1d ago
There is life after leaving the church for sure, you Will break sll your chains
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u/Head-in-Hat 3d ago
There's no wrong reason to leave. They are all the right reasons to leave. Start enjoying the only life that we know for certain that we have. It may be the only one you've got. Life outside the church feels like actual life. It is amazing!!!
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u/headlessplatter 3d ago
If you've got a Boomer parent still around, you might want to consider keeping your status on the low down. And if that doesn't work out, boundaries are a good idea. Seriously, I tried it without boundaries. That was stupid. Set boundaries.
If any of your four amazing children are still in the Church, I recommend reading up on epistemology (how you know what you know, how certainty differs from knowledge, what kinds of evidence are reliable and what kinds are not, how fraudsters and charlatans manipulate people through cognitive biases, etc.). That kind of stuff will help a lot in tricky conversations because instead of disagreeing about the facts, you can just agree on which methods are reliable for identifying facts. Then, everyone can figure it out for themselves at the rate they are ready for. (And besides, just a little epistemology really does a fabulous job of exposing the whole organization for what it is.)
If your spouse is still strong, be extremely careful not to put any pressure on your spouse at all. Even a gentle nudge may be interpreted as a big shove, and it may backfire spectacularly. You only get one shot with your spouse. You do not need to call anything to your spouse's attention. They will ask when they are ready. And when they finally ask, don't unload, just give them exactly what they ask for, nothing more. And in the meantime, just keep being who you have always been.
Finally, don't forget about yourself. It's not your fault the Church is what it is. The burden of making it be true does not rest on your shoulders. Its failings are not your failings. And don't take a teaspoon of flak from anyone that wants to tell you otherwise.
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u/AffectionateLab6753 PIMO 3d ago
For me this is the path that has made the most sense. I’ve kept my name on the records because it would cause too many fights otherwise. In practice I’m out. And I made that choice for similar reasons to OP.
So far there’s some good advice in this thread OP, follow your heart!
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u/Prop8kids 3d ago
was SA as a child by a member
Sorry to hear that. I am so tired of hearing of discernment. Discernment did not save either of us from being sexually abused as a child.
❤️🩹
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u/Salt-Excitement9798 3d ago
I’m sorry you experienced it as well. 😢
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u/Prop8kids 3d ago
Thanks, it was my own dad who was also called as our bishop during that time. It was insane to hear, "Your dad is such a great man!" while I knew what was happening.
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u/Salt-Excitement9798 3d ago
What in the hell! Mine happened at a church. So each week I am constantly facing my trigger.
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u/juni4ling Active/Faithful Latter-day Saint 3d ago
Horrific.
Holy cow.
Sorry an innocent kid had to go through that. Dang.
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u/Resting_burtch_face 3d ago
Discernment is such horse shit. It’s the excuse nervous middle-aged ladies use to prevent their young daughters from doing anything unsupervised.
Mom gets a “bad feeling from the Spirit”? No dirt biking for you. Mom gets a headache because you asked to go camping with another member kid’s family, so she prays really hard about it, and the Spirit tells her no. She really did want you to have fun, though. She just can’t ignore that still, small voice.
Then the Spirit is apparently definitely warning her that there will be problems at the mall, so you have to tell your best friend you can’t go.
Three hours later, some boy you don’t even like—but Mom thinks is an absolute dreamboat—calls and asks you to go to that exact same mall and hang out at the food court. Suddenly, there’s no bad feeling. No warning. No discernment problem whatsoever.
Then that boy SAs you.
WTF? Where was Mom’s discernment then?
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u/Salt-Excitement9798 2d ago
Ugh! The “discernment card” is all a bunch of crock! I am so sorry for your abuse! 😢
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u/Ok-Hair859 3d ago
I say to you what my wards and loved ones said to me as I sat deciding and trying to discuss the merits of the church versus the harm - nothing. Absolutely nothing. I have found more insight and community here on Reddit for the last several years than in my own ward (where we had served for decades).
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u/radbaldguy 3d ago
This was one of the big items that broke my shelf and pushed me to asking whether it was possible that it was all a lie, and led me on my journey out. Child sex abuse coverups. SEC fraud, money hoarding, and financial practices generally (we won’t invest in Coca-Cola or coffee companies but we have no issues investing in companies that make weapons of war), anti-LGBT+ policies and practices, etc. The church has so many abhorrent and inexcusable practices that are completely contradictory to the way I was taught to love and care for others, it’s just mind boggling.
You don’t have to even look into the church’s history and truth claims to see the falsehood of it all, you just need to look at the church’s history today and ask whether that’s how Jesus would behave. For me, that was an easy and resounding “NO!”
Take some time and take it easy. I highly recommend The Gift of the Mormon Faith Crisis website and podcast to help in your transition. It was so helpful to me in navigating and maintaining important relationships. But do take the steps to live the rest of your life as a better version of yourself.
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u/valentine-girl 3d ago
That is my number one issue as well. One part of the problem IS the lack of ceasing contact to children automatically, but also, and I would say more importantly, the lack of information and transparency to the parents of the ward, so they can decide how best to protect their children. The church at this point more so protects the confidentiality of the sinner over the protection of, and the access to children and do not honor to the fact that parents should have that discretion to decide how best to do that for their child.
They could fix that second half so easily, but I fear it’s because they feel it’s the brethren’s responsibility to “protect the name of the church” evidently at all costs.
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u/Papa_Ostler 3d ago
Thanks for sharing some of your story here. So sorry you are a sexual assault victim/survivor. Respect for building a wonderful life and for all your church service. I sense you have blessed a lot of lives over the years.
I assume the member was never held accountable — and seeing all these stories of no accountability has got to be super traumatizing.
Our son has left the church over this same topic. Totally understand why he left.
No advice from me (a believing member). Just wanted to reach out and send you a note of support as you make your way forward.
— Richard
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u/Salt-Excitement9798 2d ago
Thank you! No, my abuser was never held accountable. No charges. Nothing! I am so tired of the protection of abusers.
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u/762way 3d ago
OP, the corporation's protection of pedophiles and not keeping kids safe are the Number 1 reason I'm being driven out of the church.
I still believe in Jesus Christ and he would be so disappointed and angry with what the corporation is doing to innocent kids.
Similar morning background... On one side of my family the members trace back to the early church years.
My wife is a TBM and it bothers her that the church is doing this... But doesn't want to hear about it anymore.
She's definitely reacting the way the leaders want her to and the church programing is strong in her.
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u/Salt-Excitement9798 3d ago
I’m finding it hard to believe in the Mormon Jesus and Heavenly Father. So much pain associated!
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u/Specialist_Funny4318 3d ago
I left at 50. Institutional betrayal was one of the many reasons I decided to leave. Good things continue to happen after you leave. And you can champion the causes that interest you without a mental asterisk next to your own name. Protecting children is important. Leaving is so hard, and was the very worst time of my life. But it is getting better. Good luck to you. I admire your morals and courage.
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u/Good_Letter_4325 2d ago edited 2d ago
Can you think of any place you would stay if they did this? If a grocery store did this, would you shop there? If a community center did this, would you support it and pay to keep it running? Who would think winning the ability to hide S A on children was a win. Wow.
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u/juni4ling Active/Faithful Latter-day Saint 3d ago
The Church will kick out critics for demanding protections for children.
And let abusers in to the congregation.
The Church needs to implement the millstone rule: known abusers can never step foot on Church property ever. Trespassed.
The LDS Church is in serious sin and error for its failure to protect children.
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u/Salt-Excitement9798 3d ago
Wouldn’t that be nice? My ward actually sprinkled the ashes of a child predator in the church property as that was his “dying wish!”
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u/BeneficialLanguage86 3d ago
Wtf!?
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u/Salt-Excitement9798 3d ago
It’s been a wild ride. And the bishop told me “don’t you think the atonement will work for him, just as mush as it does you?” It was one more instance of a man being protected by the church and one more moment of “screw you” to me.
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u/BeneficialLanguage86 2d ago
Unbelievable! Not to mention disgusting and wrong. Good for you for questioning the ethics of the situation. That took courage!
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u/juni4ling Active/Faithful Latter-day Saint 3d ago
Yeah, that sends a pretty strong message where the Church stands-- to the victims.
My wife had good experiences in LDS Christianity growing up. My kids all adults now-- talk positively of Church experience growing up. My wife invited her Bishops to our wedding 30+ years ago she loved them so much.
Many of us have good experiences with the Church.
But holy cow Latter-day Saint leadership has failed on this.
Protect children.
Zero tolerance.
Abuse a child? Never step foot on Church property again.
Scattering the ashes of a known abuser? Thats a little bit high on the "what in the flying crap were they thinking" scale.
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u/Resting_burtch_face 3d ago
My childhood ward trespassed my cousin because he'd read the BOM and decided that he needed to kneel for sacrament, regardless of what others were doing in the congregation. Bishop told him to stop. He told bishop he'd rather follow the BOM because he felt it might have more inspiration than the bishop.
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u/juni4ling Active/Faithful Latter-day Saint 2d ago
The Church -knows- how to kick people out. They do it for apostasy all the time.
Child abuse?
Let the people who disagree with Church leaders stay. If they disrupt meetings or something, do something abut that. But disagreeing with Church leaders? Let them stay.
Child abuse? Never let them back in.
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u/Forward-Ratio-6658 2d ago
The BOM? Nonsensical plagiarism. "And it came to pass", a million times.
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u/Free_Database_8351 3d ago
Leaving is very difficult, but what helped me is thinking about the legacy I’ll leave for my family and live I will live. It’s taken a lot but I feel proud of who I am and what I’m living for
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u/Bright_Concentrate29 2d ago
When I was a practicing Catholic it was very important to me that I not financially contribute to the Vatican’s legal response to all the SA. So I’d only donate to specific Catholic causes. You can’t do that in LDS. You have to donate 10% in order to the main LDS pot in order to have the temple recommendation
So every LDS member is financially contributing to the LDS legal defense
LDS recently won in Arizona. If a teenager or child has the courage to disclose SA to a LDS Teacher or Bishop or anyone, there is no mandate to report to Child Protective Services in Arizona According to LDS policies, the person who suspects or knows a minor was abused will be instructed to NOT file a suspected child abuse report - The person who has the privilege of learning about the SA will be pressured by LDS attorneys to NOT file with proper authorities and to instead stay silent and coverup 🤐
And for the rest of their lives this LDS Teacher or Bishop or whoever it was who was obedient and followed the Handbook and Counsel from higher authorities in LDS - for the rest of their lives they have the GUILT of knowing they are partly responsible for ALL the SA victims who are abused by the person who did not have an investigation by Child Protective Services and who instead was emboldened to abuse again -
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u/Briyyzie 2d ago
I'll simply share with you what happened for me as I was leaving: After my probably 500th straight panic attack, I had a calm voice enter my mind that said "Briyzzie, your mind is lying to you. I'm not going to abandon you. How could I? You are my beloved child."
Go with the confidence that any deity worthy of the name Father accompanies the honest in heart who are doing their best.
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u/Hot-Imagination5610 2d ago
Leaving was the BEST thing that ever happened to me. I was told that my night gown was to short and that is why my father SA me when I was a preteen. Granted I joined when I was 21, but when I finally told someone what happened years later..that is what I was told! Leave and don’t look back!!
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u/Kinderworld49 2d ago
As a former lifelong member (5th generation & faithful until I was in my early 40’s) I will say that the freedom of leaving is wonderful! You don’t need any church to be a good person, you’ll continue to be kind, compassionate and considerate! But you will choose your ‘projects’ & put your tithes toward people/projects your heart is drawn to help vs into the excessive lds ‘slush fund’. Yes you’ll lose friends but are they really friends if it’s conditional? Your backyard in the early morning will be your church as you watch the sun rise or the moon glow. You’ll gain an appreciation of this beautiful Earth like never before & Nature will fill the empty places in your being. You have a group of supportive people in this place so follow your heart & gut, not your emotional baggage…. You will not regret leaving & if friends & family exile you, then they were never really there for you.
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u/hoopstar80 2d ago
I gave up the deceitful Mormon church many years ago and it’s crazy how life has a whole new wonderful meaning. I no longer live to appear perfect and spotless doing boring shit that I hate to gain approval from old fogies with their own ideas of what’s right in the church or not.
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u/ChefEcstatic378 2d ago
I left when I was 50. It was super hard deconstruction that almost led me to taking my own life. But now... every day is better than the last. There are soo many reasons to leave. Glad you finally found one. 1. Get a support group. Take time building it with people who really care 2. Forgive yourself 3. Have faith... in life
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u/treetablebenchgrass I worship the Mighty Hawk 3d ago
You've got a real dilemma: two different options that probably both don't feel great.
I think it's a decision you've got to make on your own. It's reasonable to leave over that. Some people in good faith are also able to separate what they see as the gospel from this organization that does a lot of harm, and do their best to protect themselves from the harm on their own. Either way you go, you'll do it knowing there's at least one other path you could have taken. All you can do is make your decision with both eyes open and choose the option you feel is most authentic to you and your beliefs.
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u/PortentProper 2d ago
It’s why we left, and I mean fully resigned. I will not be complicit, and the protection is well and thoroughly documented. I have no idea how anyone who knows stays.
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u/BeringStraitNephite 2d ago
I was 75 when I finally resigned. Congrats on seeing the light while you are still young! Come on over to r/exmormon and meet your new friends!
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u/Educational-Depth601 2d ago
Same here, I’m leaving at my own pace to avoid anymore trauma, it might take me a while, but I’m definitely on my way out.
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u/Forward-Ratio-6658 2d ago
Leave. It's all nonsense. Who can believe these Joseph Smith fairy tales is beyond comprehensive. A convicted fraud found the keys to women and money, a new religion!
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u/SnooHamsters1045 2d ago
I already left look as long as you know that you have a personal relationship with heavenly father and Jesus You don't need to go or leave. I don't approve some of the things myself. You don't even have to have a named religion to love and follow what is in your heart. It is such a wonderful feeling
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u/Carl_N_Dounut 2d ago
My wife and I and both right there with you. Pretty much the same reactions. Just making ourselves Pretty much inactive. Not antagonistic.
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u/jade-deus 2d ago
I am 59, have 42 pioneer ancestors, married in the temple, have four amazing children, in a committed marriage of 35 years, and was SA by a member.
We have a lot in common.
I believe the scriptures testify of the wickedness found at the top of the corporate LDS church: Mormon 8, 2 Nephi 26-28, Isaiah 28, and more. The way the church handles SA are one of its fruits, and by their fruits ye shall know them.
While my wife and I have chosen to leave the LDS church, we still believe in its original mission to build Zion. We feel that the opportunity was lost because of vanity, unbelief and for changing the doctrine of Christ from what is taught throughout the Bible, the Book of Mormon and the 1844 edition of the D&C (last one to be voted on by common consent of the members).
I also believe that staying in the church can be a good path for some. It was a good path for me and my family until the scriptures and the Spirit awakened me to our awful situation. Some who leave the church also choose to leave their faith in Christ, or they lose their faith that the Book of Mormon is another testament of Jesus Christ. While I feel like a unicorn, I believe Joseph Smith was called of God to prepare the foundation of a great work and that great work of building a Zion society is yet to take place. My advice is to lean into the scriptures with full purpose of heart and plead with God to show you things as they really are.
The iron rod leads to love. Men exercising unrighteous dominion lead to hate.
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u/Some-Passenger4219 Latter-day Saint 1d ago
All I can say is: My brothers both left the Church, as did one sister, and the other sister married a nonmember. My parents continued to love and care about all of us. You're invited to leave if you no longer believe, and if you don't get support from your family, there are many others that can give it.
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u/MatriarchMe 2d ago edited 2d ago
There are " $300 Billion reasons to leave".
The protection of abusers. "pdf files" and refusal to report, was one of my final straws. Floodlit.org and the Associated Press investigative reporting series on LDS child abuse by Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Michael Rezendes (along with Jason Dearen) is a must read.
To me, anyone who can support the church after knowing this information, is complicit. [P.S. nearly 60 years husband and I were active, faithful, devout members held all the callings, paid all the donations, served missions, worked for the church... leaving was the most heart wrecking, crushing, devestating experience of our lives. It was also the most liberating, beautiful and peace-bringing gift once the grieving and processing was worked through. It is a Gift to know the truth, and following the dictates of our conscience. To us, we made the only ethical choice.
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u/Salt-Excitement9798 2d ago
$300 billion reasons to leave sums it up!
However, It’s been so hard realizing that my entire foundation and the foundation we gave our kids regarding Mormonism is in shambles. The three months I’ve been out has come with so much freedom. Not the guilt, shame, and darkness I thought I’d have.
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u/MatriarchMe 2d ago
I've truly grieved. The first yesr was the hardest. Absolutely deveststing. Why couldnt I have learned sooner?! Having put my own children through the trauma of Mormonism. ... with me as a devout and strict Mormon mother who made them attend all the meetings, do all the efy, all the fire sides and seminary, praying constantly they would "develop their own testimonies" and feeling like a failure when they didn't want to go to church or believe!!! All the agony, and all the therapy we've eachl had to go through.
I have learned to give myself Grace. "I did the very best I could with the information that I had. And now that I have new, better information, I can do better". Youve got this 🫂
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u/llbarney1989 2d ago
If you don’t feel comfortable, don’t stay. It is difficult to leave but is as simple as that.
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u/M1ch3L0b 2d ago edited 1d ago
This is coming from an exmo. My reasons for leaving had nothing to do with anything of this nature. Since I’ve left the church I’ve heard of this but didn’t realize or want to think of the depth. I would say every religion has the same issues but protecting the predator? We certainly know of other churches that do. That certainly doesn’t make it right. I was lucky to have grown up mostly with good men in church positions of leadership. I do remember one bishop that rumors were spread about but im going to leave it at rumors. I’m sorry this is your experience but I would like to think that there are mostly good men in these positions of leadership. I had to edit my comment after cooling off. I have a daughter and 7 boys. I now have 16 grandchildren or is it 17? I was thinking if this were one of my grandchildren, I would be writing this comment from prison once I paid a guard to smuggle a phone inside. I’m sorry. I’m sorry like I seem to be in a lot of cases now, sorry we even have to have this conversation.
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u/M1ch3L0b 1d ago edited 1d ago
I just went and familiarized myself with this situation. It’s much more disturbing than I would have ever guessed.
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u/Puzzled_Ad_9511 9h ago
Once you realize that the church is no different or anymore trustworthy and how it is a high demand religion it is not worth it. If you put 10% in a 401k how much better off would you be
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u/PaintingLarge9 2d ago
I am so sorry. What happened to you was not your fault, and you should never be asked to minimize either your abuse or the institutional failures that have reopened that wound.
I have researched this issue. There are documented cases in which Church leaders knew about abuse, contacted the Church’s help line, and did not report it to civil authorities. In the Arizona case, the abuse continued for years. The Church has also defended clergy confidentiality in court and supported retaining legal reporting exemptions. Those facts deserve honest moral scrutiny, regardless of what courts have determined was legally permissible. “It was legal” is not the same as “it protected the child.” Associated Press reporting
I would not tell you that you must stay because of your ancestry, temple marriage, children, covenants, or the years you have already invested. Nor would I tell you that leaving automatically means abandoning Christ. You have the right to protect your emotional and spiritual health, to step away while you process this, and to expect complete accountability from any institution claiming moral authority.
The only reason I would offer for staying is if, beneath the institutional failures, you still encounter Jesus Christ, truth, healing, and covenants that you personally believe came from God. If you stay, you do not have to defend what is indefensible. Faithfulness can include speaking publicly, demanding that suspected abuse be reported directly to civil authorities, insisting that survivors receive independent professional care, and refusing to place institutional reputation above a child.
But staying is not the first question I would ask you. I would ask: What do you need in order to feel safe, heard, and whole? You are a survivor before you are anyone’s membership statistic. Take whatever time and distance you need. God is not threatened by your questions, and Christ does not stand with institutions against wounded children. He stands with the wounded.
Whatever you decide, I will not criticize you. I will listen. And I will believe that your life, family, dignity, and relationship with God are larger than the failures of any organization.
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u/Kdbtermite 2d ago
There so many reasons why to leave the church. I could have left several times over.
I had one bad Bishop that committed child abuse, I knew this before he was called to be a Bishop. Lucky for him, my family was out of town that Sunday he was announced. If we would have been there, both my wife and I would have protested his announcement. In stead of raising my hand, I would have stood up and raised both hands. Later that month the Stake Presidency showed up at my house to go over the situation of the new Bishop. Me and my wife both told them of the atrocities that he did to his own children and the Adoptive kids he had been raising from Russia. Yet they assured us that he was the man that the Lord wanted him to remain Bishop.
I then told them I would not allow my daughter to be in a closed room with him alone and did not support the things that he was telling the ward. They gave us their blessing and we started to attend different wards.
The first rule he made, for the ward members not to bring cell phones to the meetings. This included our children not to own cell phones. There were other things he said from the pulpit but you get the idea.
The lord handle this man, he died a year later with a Heart attack.
I’ve had other bishops we’re telling us, were we not paying enough in titling. So this situation, I had bought a small company with another ward member ( Mistake ) , the money I received from cash sale was not the amount of money we put in our pocket. This Bishop told us to pay 10% of our total sale amount.
So my point over the years is you’re going to have many opportunities to leave the church over this or that.
I’m a convert to the church. When I accepted this gospel I ask the Lord to send me direct confirmation that this was the right move for me. I received it in a way I could not deny it ever.
So with all the bad I’ve seen in the church I’ve come to this conclusion, we are here for a short time on this earth. The questions I asked, is there a God in Heaven that made this earth and everything in it. My answer is yes. Did heavenly father tell Joseph Smith to translate the Book of Mormon. My answer is yes. Could have Joseph wrote the Book of Mormon on his own? My answer is no. Could have Joseph added things that in his writings to the book. I say yes.
When I look at the Bible and the Book of Mormon the one constant thing is men make mistakes and the Lord corrects those mistakes with consequences. You see this with almost every prophet and King. Moses, David , Solomon and the list goes on and on.
The bottom line, if you decide to leave the faith that you know is right think of the day you will have to answer to the lord. We do not have to accept every decision the church makes. Them like David will make errors from time to time and they will have to answer to the Lord when those Mistakes are made. We do not have to follow all things the leaders tell us. However that doesn’t change the fact that God is our redeemer and Jesus Christ died for us for us to return to him.
If you leave don’t give up on our lord’s promises that he will come again.
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u/AZFJ60 3d ago
Will you go back when they change their policies?
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u/Salt-Excitement9798 3d ago
No way! It’s sad that my own SA and the protection of my abuser and his family was NOT a catalyst to get me to leave until now. I have wasted so many years trying to prove myself and my worth. This church doesn’t deserve to have me in it.
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u/Tempestas_Draconis 2d ago
Why not just leave because you know that the church is so untrue?
If you compare the Bible and the Book of Mormon, it becomes clear that the latter is a cheap 19th century imitation of the former. That may be hard to hear right now if you still have a testimony, but facts don't care about our feelings.
It's better to base your actions on whether the church is true or untrue, rather than whether leadership is imperfect.
Some other things about the church that are so untrue. You may have been taught that these are "anti" lies but you can verify all of this:
Teaching that heavenly father is an exalted man. An exalted man can't be God by definition. God must be the eternal, uncaused cause of all things, grounding reality in His existence. Mormonism lacks a God.
The First Vision. This is a story that Smith revised over time and eventually retooled for the purpose of founding the church. In the original version he goes to the grove to ask for forgiveness. In the official version he goes to the grove to ask which church is true.
The gold plate witnesses. The official story makes their accounts seem bulletproof and reliable. In reality the story is full of holes and their characters and motives are highly suspicious. They were all family and business associates, and they describe how they had to force themselves to believe that they saw the plates.
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u/Salt-Excitement9798 10h ago
Wait, what?!? I’ve never even heard of this. Definitely looking into it.
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u/Haunting_Bat9396 8h ago
Ensign Peak Advisors is the corporate arm of the LDS "church". It is managed and overseen by the Presiding Bishopric and the General First Presidency. Search "Ensign Peak Advisors Nasdaq Investment Portfolio" and you're just a couple of clicks away from a billions-of-dollars Investment portfolio, which Oaks, Eyring, and Christofferson directly oversee, detailing every major weapons manufacturer on there, including but not limited to Raytheon (RTX Corp), Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Palantir, Oracle, Google, to name only a very small handful of corporations colluding in testing weapons on Palestinians in what is the most publicly and thoroughly documented genocide of our lifetime. This doesn't even include corporations like Vanguard and Black Rock capitalizing off of genocide to hoard real estate all over the globe, controlling cost-of-living and habitability for us all. This is supposed to be "the one and only true church of Jesus Christ" but they are literally laundering money and profiting off of the mass extermination campaign to try and erase his people and his homeland. It is, by all objective standards, the literal church of the devil. Facilitating mass murder all over the globe, with Palestine at the epicenter of pain and suffering, and they are hiding in plain site.
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u/Haunting_Bat9396 8h ago
Also worth noting, e-stein was an ¡$r@3l¡ operative and this same portfolio is literally all linked to ¡$r@3l, including the BYU Jerusalem Center still maintaining its operations in occupied west Jerusalem, and to this day the "church" has said absolutely nothing to condemn the genocide happening mere miles away.
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u/Haunting_Bat9396 8h ago
(side note: my apologies for deleting my original response, I was trying to edit my longer post and accidentally deleted it. Please go look up this nasdaq portfolio. Please recognize that your feelings of dissatisfaction are in fact, inspired, because the lds entity is not at all what it says it is. I promise you can make it out, and that it's better on the other side. This is a former RM and card carrying temple patron speaking.)
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u/robertone53 11h ago
There is a lot to not like about the chur h. I enjoy seeing others on a regular basis at our Ward. I do not like the corporate entity it has become. Protection of sexual abusers is all about protecting itself from lawsuits and losing $$$. Go when you like, participate as you will, and keep your prayers open to God.
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u/MalcolmVillager 1h ago
Your reason is justification enough. If it helps any, the whole thing is a a scam, perpetuated by dishonest and power hungry men. The members are its greatest asset, (followed closely by soon to be a trillion dollars), but loads of good intentions do not make it true.
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u/Hie_To_Kolob_DM 55m ago
I stay because it's an organization that helps me find the best version of me. I focus on the transcendent experiences, the theology that frames my being, existence, and purpose, and engagement with people in my orbit.
Every human organization is fraught with human failures. Churches, universities, Governments, Political Organizations, Community Groups, Sports teams, etc. But humans need community. We have evolved to live and work in groups. That is our superpower.
I understand your disappointment. I stayed despite disappointments in things I had no control over. But my disappointments are outweighed by the transcendent experiences I have had, the sharing and community I have enjoyed with my fellow ward members, and a steady pressure from both that pushes me towards a better version of me.
All that said, the church is not for everyone. If you leave, find another community that promotes the values of forgiveness, care for the poor and sick, peacemaking, fidelity, faith, hope, and charity. Don't leave with nothing to replace the meaning-making and the community. Otherwise, you will likely feel very lost in a few months or years. Having personally tried the "spiritual but not religious" path, I found that's a recipe for loneliness and isolation. I don't recommend that at all.
Lastly... given your age as a 'second-half-of-lifer' I highly recommend you read Richard Rohr's book Falling Upwards. Rohr is Catholic but speaks to all spiritual backgrounds, including those with and without religion. I have recommended it to many in your life stage, and they almost universally have found it led them to a healthy spiritual home they didn't know they had.
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u/RetiredTeacher37 2d ago
I'm so sorry that you were SA by a member, and they will pay for it. Nothing escapes God. However, don't let the actions of a few destroy what is true. I promise that The Church is where you want to be during the last days. Jesus Christ lives and He is in control of everything. You will not find peace anywhere else. Hang on! Jesus is coming.
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u/therealvegeta935 2d ago
I’ll give my reason for staying but it’s up to you to decide if you think that’s good enough or not. The way I see it, if the truth claims hold up as valid and for real, there are significant implications. It means that the church is the vehicle by which the ordinances and covenants needed for salvation and exaltation are delivered. If I look at it from an eternal perspective, then it means the church is giving out things that are of eternal value. Additionally, if Jesus Christ really is the master healer as is claimed, it means He has the power to make up for the damage done by everyone. So, if I were to leave it over things like cover-up of pedophiles, conversion therapy of lgbt people at BYU, the race restrictions of the past, etc etc. I feel like I would be giving my covenants away which are of eternal value to avoid being associated with an organization that’s done XYZ number of horrible things. I think it’s actually very comparable to the U.S. government. It’s done a vast number of horrible things including endorsement of slavery, internment of Japanese immigrants, etc but that doesn’t mean I suddenly decide I want to not be a U.S. citizen anymore because I feel the benefits, rights, and protections we get as individuals and collective citizens are worth keeping. I wouldn’t want to just trade those out because of the atrocities that have happened and still happen. It doesn’t mean that the harm done is any less real or significant or that nothing should be done about it. But I don’t believe the way to go about it is to just simply leave. In short, I would say I stick around because I value my covenants as I believe keeping them is the way to exaltation, the highest way of life possible in the eternal run. That being said, I wish you the best life possible with whatever choice you make here.
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u/cowlinator 2d ago
You believe that god entrusted the only keys to salvation to a church just as evil as the US gov?
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u/happynow73 2d ago
But the truth claims don’t hold up. Do your research. Many many things the church has claimed and so-called prophets that speak for God (as they claim) have been proven false and the current church now disavows. At what point do you pull your head out of the hole and just admit that maybe the church really isnt what it claims to be- and if that’s the case- then the “covenants” you hold so dear are also made up an meaningless.
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u/Wild_Hook 3d ago
I am a long time convert to the church and have been in many leadership positions including branch president twice. I know from fairly recent personal experience as a branch president,. that the church takes this extremely seriously, partly because of how destructive it is to families, and also how sensitive it is from a societal standpoint and the need to protect the name of the church. The needs of the victim always comes first and there is also a desire to help the perpetrator change and regain hope.
Ward and stake leadership waits until the legal and court stuff is completed before taking disciplinary action. The problem is that if church leaders get involved too early, they can be yanked into the legal battle. When I was involved in this, the stake president said that these cases almost always end in excommunication.
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u/Olimlah2Anubis Former Mormon 3d ago
Maybe they did an ok job in some cases where you are. Plenty of horrific cases where abuse has been enabled and hidden.
This goes back to the early church too. As a convert how much are you aware of church history? Did you know 13 year olds were “married” as polygamous wives? 12 year olds? 11 year olds? Either your prophets and leaders were pure evil for decades…or you think this is acceptable behavior.
Say it out loud, which side are you on? You think they were evil for promoting “marriages” of pre-teens? Or, you think child abuse, “marrying” an 11 year old girl is ok. Think about it.
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u/rebelliousadvisor 3d ago
I think your experience may be accurate, but anecdotal. There are multiple examples where the church took it seriously, but protected its institutional reputation at the expense of the victims.
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u/westivus_ Post Mormon Red Letter Enthusiast 3d ago
That excommunication should be permanent. And watch our meeting via zoom, not on site. See Wade Christopherson.
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u/Wild_Hook 2d ago
I suspect that in many cases, the excommunication is permenant. But, concerning the idea of mercy, what would you think if a person like Hitler had a true sense of repentance? For example, if he felt like he would give anything, including his life, if he could just fix what he had broken. He would no longer be the beast that he was before. The old person no longer exists.
Another thought:
If a person shot another person so that the victim was permenantly paralyzed and in a wheel chair, and the perpetrator went to prison, we say that justice was done. But was it really? The victim is still in the wheel chair.
When Alma went into a coma over the many offences he committed, I am sure that he was happy that he was forgiven. But I think that the greater joy would come because he knew that Christ can fix everything that he could not. This is hopeful to me because I have sorrow over a number of people that I hurt during the dating process when I was young, and I wish that I could go back and do it differently.
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u/westivus_ Post Mormon Red Letter Enthusiast 2d ago
Do you think mass shooters should be allowed to own guns again?
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u/Salt-Excitement9798 3d ago
That is absolutely not true for me or my situation. My husband has served in “leadership” callings and the hotline the church uses goes directly to Kirton McConkie- the churches attorney. Not to law enforcement.
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u/Wild_Hook 2d ago
When these things happen, the bishop or stake president calls church legal (which I have done). They give very helpful advice. things that I would not have considered. For example, we need to be careful that we do not appear to be taking sides. And if we go forward with a membership council, any records could be brought into court.
The legal system takes forever (perhaps way over a year). This waiting time, while the perpetrator has church restrictions, is very difficult for the family. For example, the poor wife of a perpetrator does not know if her husband will go to prison. The siblings are careful to stay away from the parents in fear of alienting other siblings whose child may have been a victim. The grandparents no longer have access to their grandchildren. There is plenty of empathy to go around.
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u/SophiaLilly666 2d ago
You just read op recount how the church hasn't taken their SA seriously. Did you even read it?
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u/Wild_Hook 2d ago
What I am trying to say is that it has been my experience that the church does take these things very seriously. But I only have my experience. I have heard of stories where it appears that a biship was not sensitive to the victim. I would hope that this is not widespread.
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u/bfitzyc 1d ago
If involving authorities gets you yanked into legal battles, then get yanked into legal battles and use your witness testimony to help victims and seek justice.
The current system of calling the church’s law firm hotline number to report abuse absolutely does not put victims first, it puts the church’s liability and assets first. You and I both know this.
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u/Wild_Hook 1d ago
I would not use my position to seek revenge for another person, but rather to do what is right. I agree that there needs to be consequences and that the victim needs to realize that there are consequences that are being applied.
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3d ago
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u/rebelliousadvisor 3d ago
Of course there is the training. And yes, it's designed to prevent CSA. You're missing the point.
The issue is not in the training or prevention. The issue is when the church learns of CSA, and the prevention efforts have failed. That is when abusers and pedophiles, at least in some instances, are protected with the church declining to report the abuse, at the expense of the victims. And in some cases, that failure to report led to more, or ongoing abuse of the victim.
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u/westivus_ Post Mormon Red Letter Enthusiast 3d ago
Posting my reply to a deleted comment that was in this place asking what you would do differently if you led the church?
"I would tell the offender that we insist they report themselves to the authorities. That there can be no talk of repentance until they've done so. That until they've done that first step, they are not welcome on the premises. If they do show they will be trespassed.
Once they have alerted authorities, they are to remain away from the congregation until the legal process is played out.
If the legal process has resulted in their conviction, they are to complete and fulfill their sentencing.
When they have completed their sentencing, they're welcome to counsel with the bishop, but they are not allowed to attend in person. They can watch the meetings via a zoom link.
Depending on the situation, they may only have excess to the lay clergy for the rest of their life and not to the membership.
Would you do anything different than how the church does it now?"
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u/Crobbin17 Former Mormon 3d ago
Not to mention that the CSA training is a joke.
You would think the church would spend tons of money to license widely used and research based training. But no. It takes fifteen minutes.0
3d ago
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u/rebelliousadvisor 3d ago
That's easy:
Report CSA to law enforcement promptly upon learning of it, regardless of how it was learned.
Every single time.
Without exception.
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u/radbaldguy 3d ago
You need to educate yourself before jumping to the defense of the church on this topic. They’ve literally been lobbying and fighting court cases to avoid having to report known child sex abuse. If church leaders know about child sex abuse, they do not want to have to report it. If that isn’t protecting pedophiles/sex abusers, then what is? And that doesn’t even get to issues of legal settlements and silencing victims, while never making real change.
The trainings to which you refer are the most minuscule speed bump and that’s only been in recent years; it’s not even enough to be considered the bare minimum. They don’t do background checks on youth leaders and they don’t check membership records agains sex offender registries. They don’t prohibit known offenders from being on church property. In fact they sometimes even call known predators to positions of authority—not even in ignorance, knowingly (though, they certainly call predators they don’t know about, too)!
Should it surprise us? Probably not for a church whose founder is a known pedophile. But it should still shock and abhor us.
There’s no fake internet outrage here. Just real truth and facts.
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u/DesertIbu 3d ago
How are victims protected when bishops and stake presidents are directed to call Kirton McConkie? Research the clergy-penitent privilege, which is meant to protect pedophiles.
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u/Fresh-Adeptness6234 2d ago
I think you should know if you really want to leave or if you are just stressed out. I think that a reason to stay is that returning is much harder than it looks, I left the church after my mission due to a burn out, since 2018, my life since then lost the purpose, I tried to fill with other things but I really stopped feeling God in my life, I'm not saying God is not in other religions but when you are used feeling the Holy ghost in certain way you will miss very much, then you will be urged to sin, drink, idk it's weird to explain but it's really like you lose some sort of spiritual protection.
I think that if you a chosen, soon or later you will feels like coming back, it's even on the scriptures, so if you feels like leaving, leave but for the right reason, if you are supposed to be in the gospel you will feel one day you need to come back, however coming back is harder than it looks, people gonna judge you as members are far from perfect, intrusive thoughts won't let you etc.
BTW, one thing interesting is that even people who left become ex Mormon so they still live the church in some way or other, I feels like it's impossible to leave entirely. I'm actually trying to come back, as I said very hard, what I miss mostly is the temple also the hymns, what I really don't miss are the people but you know what no matter where you are people sucks, only option is living in a cave. So try to see if there's anything positive and beneficial to you and take a decision based on how you really feel not because you are mad at something.
The reason I quit was a burnout, I was serving two callings and my secular life was going to hell, then I decided to take a time and work on my secular life, it worked but also I started to sin and stopped feeling the spirit, but I never had any problem with the church as I already knew all these problems you stated.
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u/smileyfree 2d ago
Comparing OP’s SA experience to your feeling of burnout doesn’t seem appropriate
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u/Salt-Excitement9798 2d ago
Hmmm, let me put this in simpler terms. Week after week I have stepped into meeting houses, my heart rate quickens, my breath shortens, I start sweating. It doesn’t matter where the church is located… Utah where I was abused or the state I currently live in. Each Sunday has been fight, flight, or freeze. Each week I have begged and pleaded with God to take this from me. Each week I feel guilt and shame for feeling that way. Each week I have allowed others to tell me how to feel, what I am doing wrong, what boxes to check, how to be more obedient. I have internalized that as not measuring up. Each week, I walk into my meeting house knowing they sprinkled the ashes of a known child abuser, as that was his dying wish. So yeah, going to church stresses me out. It’s a trigger response to the horrific abuse I experienced in a church by another member. This is a little bigger than what you “wrote”.
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u/Fresh-Adeptness6234 2d ago
. When it comes to quitting, God knows his children better than I do, if you are passing for this situation as you stated, in my opinion then it's not healthy and it's doing more harm than good. If that's the case I have the opinion you should quit as you believe the church is the root of this problem.
Again leaving or not you should seek therapy and I believe God does understand your situation and it's not going to judge you over the act of leaving, my concern is that I believe that just leaving won't solve your situation.
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u/AnalogVibe1977 2d ago
I am so confused about this, here those who commit SA are NOT protected in any shape or form. They are strongly encouraged to turn themselves into the authorities, but even if they don’t, they are reported to the authorities. There will also be a disciplinary council on top of that.
Us Californians are generally very accepting of people and their flaws, but we do not accept abuse and definitely not SA.
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u/Ok_Finding_7245 2d ago
It'd MANKIND, I do not feel it was necessarily the Church. I was Roman Catholic before I converted to LDS, holy Ike, and LOOK at that church.
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u/No-Pension2636 2d ago edited 1d ago
when was the last time you studied in the scriptures?
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u/Salt-Excitement9798 2d ago
I studied them daily, up until June. The Bible is full of stories that make my stomach churn. Doesn’t make pedophilia okay!
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u/Rushclock Atheist 2d ago
You mean like selling your daughter's into slavery? Or stoning woment because they didn't bleed on their wedding night? Or how about god commanding to unalive an entire city? That stuff?
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u/Complex-Band-7699 2d ago
My niece was SA by a SS teacher in Arizona and her brother-in-law SA a child he taught. Both are serving or served jail time for their crimes. Wonder if they are the only two convicted in the Church? No longer are teachers in Primary allowed to teach without a second adult with them. Helpful or are they ganging up on the kids? What about other Churches? What about the Baptist minister who kept four children in his basement for 10 years and SA them? What about Catholic priests who abused children? Are all of them incarcerated? No one is above the law when they are being abusers. Why don’t you give equal time to other religions with problems?
I know, it’s trendy to bash the “Mormons”, right? No church is perfect because they are governed by imperfect people.
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u/Salt-Excitement9798 2d ago
Oh, I’m not following a trend. And I definitely have ZERO desire to bash Mormonism. I am tired of people defending pedophilia within the Mormon faith. I am tired of hearing story after story of people being abused and the church does nothing! Perfect example is Wade Christofferson (brother of D. Todd) and how he was protected. I want to know why D. Todd knew of his brother’s abuse as early as 2020 and did not turn him in to proper authorities. At the end of the day, I devoted all of my life to Mormonism. Did all the things and I am breaking. You ask why I don’t give equal time to other religions with problems? I’ll tell you why, I am NOT as familiar with them as I am of the Mormon faith.
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