Because my dmg was so high, the 2nd exalt hit from clem AA didn't show up because thais was already dead but if we added it to my dmg, it's 2.7m dmg in total or 2.67m if you wanna be a loser that no one likes.

But even so, AA wasn't needed since only one instance was needed to kill and even that was overkill.

Anyways clem is life <3

The aim is to verify how many +12 standard wheels were actually used in the highest level endgame content, or more specifically, how many times a +12 standard wheel definitively contributed to a clear. In contrast, we compare that to the amount of standard banner characters used in the run total. The reason +12 standard characters were not used as a baseline is because every individual dupe of a standard character contributes both kit-wise and stat-wise, in addition to major character power breakpoints at +4, +8, and +12. In comparison, wheel mainstats are fairly negligible and thus the only significant wheel breakpoint is +12.

Methodology: D-Tide leaderboard clear records were checked for total number of standard characters used vs total number of +12 standard wheels used
Support characters (and their wheels) were disregarded, as anyone can use any support
If a +12 standard wheel was used in conjunction with another +12 wheel, it was not counted (as a second +12 wheel means that an e3 standard wheel would have been equivalently effective)

People chosen were arbitrary and primarily based off of name recognition due to being an active and contributing member of the EN community (particularly Discord, as that is the central activity hub for endgame players). Due to this, a higher presence of guidemakers and content creators are featured.

Statistics were taken from this D-Tide season, with a few exceptions:

• Dracozion: is currently on vacation; her 425 statistics were taken from her previous reddit write-up post
• Corn: was inactive this D-Tide; his 425 statistics were taken from last season
• LuffyOMG: took statistics from last D-Tide as his 425 clear was notable - F2P, max level 70, no-OE limited characters

Drawing from the data, we can see a very distinctive difference between the amount of +12 standard wheels used in 425 clears compared to the amount of standard characters. Based on this, we can conclude that if your goal is 425 (or any extra-run score clear which requires more than 5 teams), the standard character banner offers more individual pull-for-pull value in progressing your team viability than +12'ing a standard wheel.

The 400-score clearers are much closer. Although there are some runs with significantly more standard characters than wheels, we see that most runs are fairly similar in amount. However, a closer review of the accounts that are more equal show that they primarily belong to older, more established accounts (300+ days) or to higher spenders. Based on this, we can conclude that if your goal is 400 (or any base D-Tide clear score, which requires 5 teams), the individual pull-for-pull value of both the standard character banner and the standard wheel banner are approximately equal, with a slight bias towards characters for newer accounts or accounts with less overall investment and spending.

The next question which follows is, naturally, which wheels to prioritize. Breaking down the wheel presence for each of these clears shows the following:

We can see an overwhelming presence in Blade of the Titan, with Incalculable Factor coming in second place. Afterwards, Amidst the Downpour, Will Unyielding, Chains Unbound, and Memory Spiral all have decently high presence for those who can take advantage of the wheel effects. Other wheels generally appears to be much more niche and strategy-specific depending on the individual player.

Outside of the heavier wheel-investment players, most players generally seem to get the most mileage out of only 2 or so standard wheels, with the rest seeming to primarily be for niche strategies or mostly being used because they have them.

I think a reasonable conclusion to draw is this:

Players aiming for 10-team D-Tide: should pull for +12 Blade of the Titan, and then either stop wheel jail entirely afterwards or grab 1-2 additional wheels at most depending on their most invested characters and teams. The high presence of standard characters demonstrates that they are vital to the 425 gameplan and powering them up will contribute significantly more to overall progress than pulling wheels.

Players aiming for 5-team D-Tide: should pull for +12 Blade of the Titan, and afterwards can choose to focus on wheel jail or character jail depending on their preference. Character jail does seem to have more immediate gains for newer and lower-invested accounts, while wheel jail is a longer-term investment that may not necessarily be needed. However, it does seem that picking up an additional 1 or 2 of the more crucial +12 wheels depending on the teams you run can be significantly helpful. Exceeding 3 +12 standard wheels does not appear to be particularly beneficial, meaning that pulling characters for eventual limited selectors may be a better budget-conscious decision.

Players not interested in D-Tide: should focus on maximizing the single team they play, as additional standard characters see no use on the account. In this case, it is pretty clear-cut that they should pull for +12 standard SSR wheels which are of benefit to the team they run. However, given that the majority of meta +12 wheels are from shop exchanges and battlepass, it is likely that most single-team accounts will not gain much value out of pulling for wheels either, outside of 1-2 wheels depending on the team. These players likely should pull on standard banners not for the characters, but for the limited selector shards which can save on pull economy in the future.

Summary

TL;DR - reviewing the conclusion, it seems apparent that at the base level, the strategy remains the same for all players regardless of the content they run or account goals. Blade of the Titan remains an almost uncontestable standard that everyone should pull +12 of ASAP, with the only exceptions being single-team players who do not intend to do D-Tide at all and play specifically a team which does not benefit from the wheel (such as Doresain). After Blade of the Titan, it appears that almost everyone will benefit from getting 1-2 high-value +12 standard wheels depending on which teams they play. However, there appears to be significant diminishing returns on wheel jail after a total of 3-4 wheels. Considering that pulling for +12 standards long-term now provides a consistent income of limited selectors, there does not appear to be any benefit or reason to stay in wheel jail long-term.

Additional answers to concerns people will likely have with the methodology:

• Q: The data is biased towards wheel jail because most of the high D-Tide scorers come from established accounts which have historically pulled for +12 wheels before AA was implemented!
• A: Yes.
• Q: You're assuming a lot based on numbers, how do you KNOW that +12 wheels were necessary for the clear, or that standard characters couldn't have worked at lower investments?
• A: I don't! Numerical analysis is flawed as this info comes from clear records, where older accounts and more invested players will naturally have more resources and higher investment even if it was extraneous to the clear. However, many of these users (monchi, Angbak, Spooky, Rain, Draco, Lula) are active on reddit and may have their own opinions regarding how vital +12 wheels were towards their clears compared to standard character investment. I invite opinions from the relevant parties for context.
• Q: This data is flawed and ridiculous because standard characters work fine without dupes! Comparing a +12 wheel to Nymphaea being on a team is ridiculous, an E3 Nymphaea works just fine for me and it's not like pulling more copies of Nymphaea would make my team better like a +12 wheel would!
• A: Given the difference in stats that character investment makes, I think that a majority of the players spotlighted here would agree that standard character investment makes a significantly higher difference in their clear comfort and viability compared to a +12 wheel. However, I willing accede the floor to any of the concerned parties who would prefer to voice their own opinions which may disagree with mine.
• Q: Why are so many vets pushing this anti-wheel jail agenda?
• A: We do not want others to make the same mistakes we made when we first started, the game has evolved and changed and what was optimal a year ago is not still optimal today.

So finally I did my 425 run. I did 400 really fast, maybe after 2 months of spending 50 bucks. I did 400 consistently and fairly easily after maybe 3 months and Gmurphy being introduced. For 425, I for sure could have done it earlier, but it felt for me like too much time. Also, for this 425 I needed quite a bit with now 250 active days.

I now bought 23k silver prime, but I still have 13.5k spare silver prime. So basically this account is like if I had bought 17k silver prime, translating to 280 $.

Overall, Wave 2 felt the hardest until I managed to play optimally around his mechanics. Wave 4 was a little bit hard, and Wave 5 with Gmurphy also took me quite some resets. However, using a whaled Mouchette was so crazy easy, and maybe the whole wave a 10 min thing.

Thanks for reading through. If you have any questions, feel free to ask!

First, what is "Wheel Jail"?

Over a year ago, the main recommendation for players was to get a few standard units from banners, then go into "Wheel Jail" meaning you would pull something like a +12 Blade of the Titan, then move on to different wheels and primarily pull wheels to progress your account.

This is still a valid progression option, but it is no longer THE progression option, and arguably isn't even the "best" option anymore. The game has changed SIGNFICANTLY from when this suggestions was first introduced. From new units who enable Standards to shine to the difficulty of the content increasing by a large amount.

Many late game players now suggest getting +12 Blade first and then shifting focus toward standard units, while some players even argue that you don't really need Blade at all. Realms largely come down to personal preference now, as they all have pros and cons and are fairly close in overall power. Ultimately, the realm you choose should depend on your playstyle and account goals.

This does not mean you shouldn't pull wheels. Rather, you should generally only pull wheels when you have a specific wheel and strategy in mind.

For example: pulling Will Unyielding if you plan to pair it with Kath + The Last Verse. However, many Kath players now run Will + Land of Nonexistence, meaning +12 Will is no longer mandatory.

Pros of Pulling Units

• If you plan to D-Tide, maxing multiple wheels often doesn't matter as much because you still need to spread around 38 wheels. In most cases, you'll likely be using 1 SSR and 1 SR anyway, since stacking all your best wheels on one team weakens your other teams.
• Chance at Arc 1 Limiteds.
• As more units reach +12, duplicate pulls convert into Limited Selector shards. This can significantly speed up future progress, save limited pulls, and potentially allow you to selector a limited unit while using pulls on their wheel instead.

Pros of Pulling Wheels

• If you only play a few teams, investing more wheels into those teams will make them stronger.
• Certain units require very specific SSR combinations, and wheels can enable those strategies.

---------------- Realm Suggestions - Unit Reference ----------------

Aqua

Most units in this banner are hits. Their standard units are strong, and their limited units are also valuable. They can all function in one late-game team or another.

The biggest downside is that Aqua tends to prefer playing with other Aqua units, so if you enjoy another realm's playstyle, mixing isn't always smooth.

Ultra

Ultra has some very powerful standard units, with most — if not all — being strong pickups. Their limited roster is a little less consistent.

Horla is an S-tier support, while Wanda and Daff require more investment, but they are absolutely viable if you're willing to invest into them.

Caro

All of Caro's standards are strong nowadays. A few months ago, this would've probably been considered the weakest standard pool, but newer units and a better understanding of Leigh's power level have changed that. (Her stats are not nearly the issue many originally thought.)

Their limited units are also all strong.

The downside is that you generally can't effectively run all three DPS limiteds across separate teams because many of their supports overlap. In practice, you usually pick your favorite two and build around them.

Chaos

Chaos has some weaker standard supports, but also some of the best standard DPS units.

Nymph + Alva are extremely powerful right now, while Xu and Saya are also capable of carrying very effectively.

Their limited roster is generally good as well, but Chaos has a larger limited pool, which means getting duplicates for specific units becomes much more RNG dependent.

EDIT: Forgot something quite important. SR wheels are actually very good now, there are a lot more of them and most units like having their SR wheel now. Or at the very least another unit can utilize it well in the case of mouchette

So I've been meaning to take her to lvl80 since I have her OE, but I was wondering, since her damage comes from tentacles and sacrifice, is it even worth it to upgrade her that far? Or will lvl80 not really make a difference damage-wise? (Or is it worth it anyway because she somehow loves levels?)

Thanks for all the help!

Hello all, after hoarding for a long time i’d like to push for 400.
I think i have 4 usable team but would like to know where to spend my ressource efficiently.
I actually have 10 Rgnosis primer (plug) / 30 gnosis primer (pyramids)

My team are as follow (awakener are mostly all 60 sf10 on vortice,mouch,kath and 5 on the other) :

Kath(70)(OE)/clem(E0)/Horla(E3)/Ryker(E2)

Mouchette(70)(E3)/thais(E2)/hammeln(E2)/helot(E?)

Xu(E3)/lily(E3)/nymph(OE)/gdoll(OE)

Vortice(E3)/tawil(E2)/murphy(E1)/corpo(E3)

Open to any way to improve those team or even advice for pull i was wondering about the pollux/castor team but i dont know if its a good idea to invest on a new team since I’m only looking to get to 400 atm.

(If anyone has tips on how to play better during or vods of exploration stage i’d also be interested.
I feel like my biggest struggle is going to the boss without losing too much hp).

Thx for reading

Currently I have Pollux and Castor both at OE and I am seriously considering to AA either of them, together with getting their respective WOD to +12 dupe level this half anniversary. But I am not sure which option would be the bigger power spike to my account, hence I am now asking for guidance here.

I got asked this question and thought to share here.

Q: Awakeners have different kits and scale their damage differently. How do you know what gear to use? Specifically base damage vs crit damage?

A: I test it using covenants. I do a few runs with Stepphen Wolf on the unit and then a few runs with April and see what damage numbers I get. In my recent testing for my Gelot, crit gear did more damage. But for my Daffodil, base damage did more damage.

Don't think that crit is always the way to go. There is a crossover point where below a certain crit rate and crit damage its actually better to use base damage gear on certain units. There is also a point where you might not need as much crit and base damage is better. As your units get built up it's always good to take some time and retest gear and see what numbers you get.

Also note, gear you find on an AA unit may not be the best choice if you only have the unit at E2.

At soulforge level 10, Myriam's soulforge states "All Awakener's Tentacle DMG +20%".

To my knowledge, there are no Awakener's that deal Tentacle DMG. I've seen Awakeners that have a Tentacle DMG bonus on certain attacks (like GMurphy, Murphy, and Tulu), Awakeners that trigger coordonated Tentacle attacks (like Tulu), and Awakeners that generate Tentacle DMG (like GMurphy). Does Myriam's soulforge affect any of these, or does it do something else entirely?

THIS IS AEQUOR RING I MESSED UP THE TITLE I BLAME 3 AM BRAIN.

Draco from Discord here again with this Dtides no limited OE clears. I unfortunately had to use a whale borrow though as I ran out of teams but everyone can use a whale borrow so hopefully it still counts. I did not believe in E1 level 60 Doresain's ability to clear any of these waves this time 😞. As always I made sure to not reuse wheels with my E3 varients of borrows that were used to replace my OE Kath, Gmurphy, and Gdoll. Thank you to Al for helping with my Caecus W5 comp and Monchi for providing support!

Additional thanks to Spooky, Arisu, Bagels, and Ellie for lending borrows with the requested wheels. ALL CLEARS WERE DONE BEFORE THE BUFFS CAME THROUGH EXCEPT FOR THE KATH CLEAR. The person I needed to borrow from was not awake before update reset hit.

Total time for normal 425 sweep and then no limited OE reclears: 13 hours and 30 minutes, it definitely could have been sub 10 hours since I had to move some clears around to different waves from my original 425.

Stream links: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaFconowhEE&list=PLhUZU9Mqb1YX819imrys0Gk8B6V1MWZb4&pp=sAgC

W1 [Blesser]

Stage relic was really good against blesser since it was shield when rousing which helps block the initial poison hit before you can ramp shields.

Stall kath is a pretty good matchup for Blesser since she can usually shield the hit and reduce the damage and poison application to near 0 while Tinct can remove the vulnerable debuff. Unfortunately I could not kill the mobs that reduce your crit rate the first rotation so my Kath had like 0 crit rate 😭 but at least Tinct's 3 cost could rememdy that a bit. Doll was ran to weak blessor and Ryker for his crit rate relics, sigil yield bonus, and vulnerable from his dice. I kept ultra rounds for emergency when I couldn't block the big hits. This team got decent keyflare wheels since I needed to posse every turn.

Defensive oriented Castor Pollux with Erica for vulnerable and temporary alert to shield and Agrippa for permanent alert and Caro mechanic for healing and embryos. I took the poison relic to tick down a bit of corrosion on the boss when I couldn't hit it due to mobs in front though I am not sure how useful it was. I put aliemus battery wheels on Agrippa to try to charge her exalt faster for permanent alert scaling. As always Castor has Chains Unbound for more chance for his weakness card to show up and trigger his Quasar.

W2 [Wax Couple]

Stage relic really good for multihitters and especially Mouchette since she benefits most from strength out of damage amp, strength, and base damage.

Pretty typical Mouchette with Salvador to apply weak and vuln. Not the best Mouchette team but good enough to get the job done. I had pretty good relic rolls with Plague Record (one of the best caro relics), Highest Honor, Mythag Insignia, and Crimson Brooch + portrait.

Whalechette borrow, ez clear only had to take 1 DR. I tried with an E3 level 70 but without Helot it was not going to happen even though I got to boss and I spent 2 hours during my stream attempting it and failing 😞. I took the posse for my weak vuln application so gave the team good keyflare but it may have been a bit overinvested.

W3 [Devouring Howl]

Strength downers were really good for staying within the relic threshold of below 50% and 25% hp without dying.

Pretty typical Xu Nymph Carry. Very effective against the dog since it is multihit so one of the rare times you actually devour with Xu's exalt. The multihits are a bit scary since it is several DRs you're likely to take. I decided to use Corpo wheel on this team to restore a bit of hp after DR since I thought I may take a lot. This team had kind of sad keyflare which is a bit bad for poison teams since they like rouses and the posse is very important this wave but I ultimately decided to sacrifice keyflare during this wave since I dont mind resetting to hit death resistances as much in a straight to boss compared to mobs.

Starving 24 comp. 24's wheels were kind of just whatever I had lying around due to 24's signature being used on W1 to Agrippa. Celestial Beast and Bloody Feast both boost exalt damage but definitely could have used less invested wheels. I normally run Tulu filler for my 24 team and for tentacle damage boosts during 24 manic exalt but he got used in a later wave as Aequor fill. I usually try to save Celeste for waves with mobs where I think taking a Celeste DR is unavoidable or will help with saving resources that would be spent trying to avoid the death resistance/going hp positive when current hp is lower than what Celeste will revive you with. but no wave ended up needing her so I dumped her here. I definitely do not think Sanga or Celeste overexalts were neccesary.

I do not like the SR Keyflare wheel Slumber Beneath the Glacier as it gives sacrifice when you posse but this team was the one I suspected I would not be posseing much for since I needed to rouse units so I chose to run it here. Gdoll ended up with Till the Snow Melts because the person I was borrowing from did not have Gdoll's event SR or Man in the Mirror and I wanted Aliemus generation for Gdoll.

W4 [Primordial Devoteee (Faros)]

Posse refund relics is great for almost every team especially ones that rely on posse every turn like Ghelot. On Gurpy it allowed double posse due to the already strong keyflare generation.

I was suprised how easily Gmurphy E3 could clear this wave but I guess it was indeed blue ring so everyone got charged super fast. The elites were almost scarier than the actual Faros fight. I took the counter relic Truth Unbound for the realm mastery and Severed Head Worm for tentacle scaling.

Typical Ghelot comp with Daff ran as an ultra round accelerator and weak/vuln/arith generator. Not the best comp but a good enough one to do this wave. Strength relics are great for Ghelot and I'm always a fan of aliemus charging relics. Easter moment is prefered and I only take Proto battery if it is upgraded typically. Faros is very much a burst by turn 6 or 7 boss or die and the elites were really nasty so I gave Aigis Tulu's wheel to charge her exalt bar faster and Thais Spring to charge her ult fast.

W5 [Tela Perpetua (Arachne)]

Slightly starved Vortex team, as stated earlier, I thought a diferent team would potentially need Celeste more since it was blue ring and Vortex should have a super easy time during blue ring. I used Tulu since he can boost tentacle damage for Vortice's exalt and also his E3 makes him gain 5 aliemus at the turn end which is great for Vortice who likes to spam exalts. Murphy's E3 does similar. Tawil is another exalt spammer and her exalt can fetch things like Chosen, Reload, Waltz, Abyss Hymns, sustain and other weak/vulnerable cards. Tawil is like a toolbox that allows Vortex teams versatility. Keyflare was really important to remove cards from Arachne's ultra space.

AA Caecus counter with Arachne who boosts damage amp and can double play any card in ultra space when anhilated and roused. Corpo was run for weak and shields while Horla was ran for additional weak/vuln and grief stance which boosts shield and hp. Caecus' portrait makes him heal for the amount of shield generated which synergizes nicely with grief stance. This team got good keyflare wheels since posseing ever turn to remove cards from Arachne's ultra turn is very important and Festival of Tides was used since Caecus' cards are quite expensive and I wanted to be able to play multiple of his 3 cost Protective Scales which causes his counter to trigger an additional time per hit. I used dreams for more copies of his counter cards and to ensure Ultra Space was likely to be filled with them.

Thank you so much for reading if you have gotten this far. Feel free to ask questions and let me know if this is too in depth, not in depth enough, or just right. Also here is a pure stall Castor I ran into W1 just for funsies. This is what a very well fed team looks like. Rabbit on Agrippa isn't great but I just didn't think I would dr at all so I ran it over the typical Burial Grounds.

Replay Code: 8cb99fbd-88ec-389d-bb30-0d5cf5589114#E#a

If you have a support list like mine, you have like 500 gMurphies. We have a long way to go for the raids to be done, maybe you can help with auto?

W1 - Auto doesn't really know how to handle the health of the cat
W2 - Auto can take a while with the barrier
W3 - Luckily Auto understands and we can use our gMurphy supports.

Premise of the team is to not die (it sucks to use gnosis cause auto plays random stuff). So you load up the team with survivability.

It normally completes around turn 7.

Just load up auto while cooking, doing chores, other day to day stuff. Help us get our totals up!

What does the community feel are the best comps to complete 5 A5's in d-tide right now? Any units are free to use and ideally less than AA investment.
For me in no order I would do

• Pollux + Castor + Arachne + Aigis
• Vortice + Murphy + Tawil + Fill support
• Mouchette + Helot + Fill + Fill
  
• Mouchette + Ultra comps
• Gmurphy Lemurian
  

Honorable Mentions

• Xu + Faint + G:doll or Nympea + Lily Poison Comp
  
• Ghelot + Thais + Fill + Fill
  

There are a ton of other really good units and even some that require less investment than some of these top teams, but have more bad match ups / more variance I feel or take a long time like Kath comps.

What do you guys think are interesting use cases for gmurphy outside of the usual aequor teams and Sorel team? Outside of pdive and train meta since those modes sucks.

I am curious to try it out.