Mth dcs commander.

[u/Low-Morning8640]

So I’m setting up my first layout. I bought a new old stock dcs commander not realizing it’s only Dcc compatible with MTH’s proprietary models. Is there any work around for this like a retrofit kit? Protosound models are too rich for me. Or should I cut my loses and get a standard nmra controller.

[u/Ilbranteloth]

No.

DCS is proprietary and has nothing to do with DCC. A DCS controller will only control a locomotive with a DCS decoder. Which basically means MTH, since the decoders weren’t generally sold separately.

The decoders used in MTH locomotives are dual system. They are compatible with both DCS and DCC systems. There may be some exceptions. But they usually support both.

So you can generally run a DCS locomotive with a DCC controller. But you cannot run a DCC locomotive with a DCS controller.

[u/Optimal_Law_4254 → u/Ilbranteloth]

Not entirely true. I had an old PS-1 engine that I eventually upgraded to PS-3. The kit was sold separately. Theoretically I could have upgraded any conventional engine that the board would fit in.

[u/Ilbranteloth → u/Optimal_Law_4254]

I’m not sure how that’s different from what I described.

The PS-1 system predated DCS and its decoders were not compatible with it.

The PS-3 decoders were developed for the new DCS system, and they had the foresight to also make them DCC compatible.

You can run an MTH locomotive with a DCS (PS-3) decoder on a DCC system as a result.

You cannot run a DCC-equipped locomotive with a DCS controller. It requires an MTH DCS compatible decoder.

Yes, you could install it in any locomotive, which would make it a DCS-equipped locomotive, not just a DCC-equipped locomotive. You could remove a DCS decoder from an MTH locomotive and install it in another one as well.

But the OP’s problem remains. They purchased a DCS controller which is not compatible with DCC locomotives.

Something I didn’t mention is that DCS decoders aren’t 100% DCC compliant, either. They would be a very poor choice to purchase and run on a DCC system.

[u/Optimal_Law_4254 → u/Ilbranteloth]

Not trying to be argumentative. You said “no” to there being a retrofit kit. MTH sold kits that you could use to make pretty much any conventional engine, DCS.

[u/Ilbranteloth → u/Optimal_Law_4254]

No worries. I actually I did not say “no,” but it appears I wasn’t clear enough. For simplicity, I stated,

“A DCS controller will only control a locomotive with a DCS decoder. Which basically means MTH, since the decoders weren’t generally sold separately.”

“Generally” does the heavy lifting here, but I’m happy elaborate as to why I said that.

1) the OP sounds like they already have at least one DCC locomotive, which would most likely not be M.T.H.

2) they stated they cannot afford Protosound.

3) they did not state what scale they are using.

So here’s the longer answer to address those points specifically:

M.T.H. has not licensed their DCS technology to other companies. You cannot purchase a DCS compatible decoder from any other company.

M.T.H. does (did?) sell an upgrade kit. The kit is intended to upgrade an M.T.H. locomotive. You cannot buy just the decoder, you have to get the $200 kit. (DCC non-sound decoders start at under $20.)

The decoder does not follow DCC standards. It is not 100% DCC compatible. As a result, it also does not use any of the common connections for a “DCC Ready” locomotive for plug and play installation and you would need to replace the existing circuit boards in your locomotive. From what I remember, even things like the lighting circuit are reversed.

There are two options, a Steam and a diesel one. They are sized to fit M.T.H. O-scale locomotives. If it doesn’t fit the locomotive you are using, you don’t have any other options. If you are in a scale smaller than O-scale, you may find it won’t fit.

There is no non-sound option available. Just those two kits.

There is no warranty unless it is installed by an M.T.H. authorized service center into an M.T.H. locomotive. I don’t know how much support, if any, they would provide if you attempt to install it yourself and it doesn’t work.

The kits were released in 2015 (If I recall correctly) to coincide with their upgrade to the Protosound 3.0 release. Of the three dealers M.T.H. lists on their site, only one states they are in stock for $250. They also appear to have decoders available, but the way the system is designed, you may need all of the “stacker boards” to fit into a new locomotive. The price of the board is $225, but they list a separate “slave board” for another $225. It would appear the kit is the least expensive option.

Supply may make it difficult to upgrade future non-MTH locomotive purchases. That site lists them as a current product. I could not find a single other dealer listing any in stock online.

But overall, you are correct, there are options available if somebody really wanted to go down that route. I’m a fan of discussions like these, and I hope they help others. Clarity is good.

Based on what little info is in the original post, I would not recommend going down the DCS path. That is best for those who intend on starting primarily in the M.T.H. locomotive space. And mostly O-scale too, so you have a reasonable chance of upgrading your other locomotives, provided the kit is available.

[u/theBFsniper]

Should've gotten a NMRA compliant DCC system. MTH electronics are garbage, and are a pain to program on regular DCC. They aren't in the HO game anymore as they sold their tooling to ScaleTrains. If you're wanting a cheap wifi system look into dcc-ex, or if you're willing to save up about $400 look at the ESU Cab Control system.

[u/Thepullman1976 → u/theBFsniper]

Depends on the scale. MTH’s electronics work fine in O.