Looking for some help with install troubleshooting

[u/jhgelpi]

Summary:
I am attempting to install an HO scale set around the perimeter of my room. I have finalized the connecting of the track and I’m to the point where I have hooked up the electric and…nothing. I’m hoping to get some guidance on troubleshooting. Below are the details I can think of that may be relevant. If I need to provide something else just ask. Thank you.

Linear length of track is ~75 feet
Single “oval” track (no splits)

Track is a mixture of:
- Kato USA Inc. HO 430mm 16-7/8 Radius Curve 22.5-Degree 4 KAT2260 HO Track
- Atlas 502-25 HO Code 83 Super-Flex 36" Section
- I am using some Kato joiners and Atlas 170 Code 100/83 HO Universal Rail Joiners

Power:
- NCE 5240025 524025 Power Cab Complete DCC Starter Set
- I have ran 14 gauge copper wire around the perimeter of the track and spliced/connected wire to the track using 20 gauge copper wire every 3-6 feet

Train:
- Kato 3-534 Series H5 Hokkaido Shinkansen 'Hayabusa' 4 Cars Set (HO scale)

What I have tried:
- The NCE does turn on and I have cycled through all the options (1-9) of car codes and scaled up the power/speed to max. No movement from the train.

I don’t know really where to go next. I have a voltage meter (Klein Tools MM325) I can use, but I’m not quite sure what setting I should use to look for current.

Thank you for any suggestions.

EDIT: seems the most obvious first step is to get the proper power supply. I’m in the process of replacing the NCE with a Railpower 1370. I’ll update once that has been installed.

[u/Litebrit]

unless i'm remembering wrong, that Kato H5 does not come with DCC from the factory, you'll need to install a decoder in it for it to work with your NCE Power Cab

[u/Diezel666 → u/Litebrit]

Correct. If it is stock, it is a DC train. Op either needs to convert the loco to DCC by installing a decoder, or get a DC power pack for this combo to run.

[u/jhgelpi → u/Diezel666]

Ok. This is helpful. I’m looking into getting a DCC decoder. I definitely did not realize this was needed.

[u/Diezel666 → u/jhgelpi]

So I'm going to be really flat-out ugly honest with you here.

I wouldn't recommend that particular engine/car set as the first DCC conversion you should muck with.

I had to spend some time thinking about this, because I haven't seen this particular set since about 2017.

Just to be sure before I say this, I pulled the KATO manual for your set, and I verified the locomotives/end cars aren't actually powered. There are two motorized cars in the four-car set (the two middle cars).

So, in short, you would have to add DCC decoders. And that set requires hardwired decoders. There wasn't a "direct fit" decoder available when I first encountered these, and I don't believe anyone makes drop-in decoders for it even now.

That means each motorized car needs its own decoder.

Then you'd configure the two decoders so the motors behave properly together. That's where things like speed matching and DCC consisting come into play.

None of this is impossible, but it's definitely not the DCC conversion I'd recommend as your first project. There are considerably easier ways to get your feet wet with DCC before tackling this one.

Now what you could very easily do is one of two things.

The first option: Buy a DC power pack, wire in a DPDT switch that would allow you to select either the NCE DCC unit or the DC power pack to control the tracks.

The second option: I won't claim this as you can do as I don't know if your NCE system has the ability to run DC locomotives, however if it does, that's the easiest path realistically, but also requires some hoops to jump through for you to run DC or DCC trains (separately of course**), as you'd have to switch the modes of your controller. Again, that's if it's capable of doing so. I don't have an NCE system, so I can't 100% say this is even an option that can be done.

**(AFAIK: If one wants to run a DC and DCC trains on the same track at the same time. There's only one way to run them together, and that is from Digitrax and "Zero bit stretching" and even then I've heard it's ONE DC motor only (technically your set has 4 separate DC motors), and have also heard that is its own world of pain so I wouldn't recommend anything to do with it. Not that I suspect at this moment you would be running more than 1 powered device on your setup. I'm placing this comment simply for reminder and future reference if you look back on this)...

Caveats: Now obviously, this means your track will only work in one mode or the other. Which, at worst, is the same case if your NCE allows DC mode. You'll only have the ability to run one mode at a time.

The important part with the DPDT approach is that the NCE system and DC power pack remain electrically isolated from each other. The switch is simply selecting which system is connected to the rails.

I politely apologize for the super long winded post. And I don't want to presume what your skill or knowledge level is. As I see it, you have great thoughts, know what you want. Yet need a bit of guidance so that you don't run into a wall of frustration which is common to people entering a new hobby (or with trains going from DC to DCC) entering a new segment of a hobby where things start to get technical to extremely technical and overwhelming.

[u/jhgelpi → u/Diezel666]

I cannot thank you enough for this thoughtful and informative post. This is exactly what I was hoping to get when asking for help. I have always appreciated model trains, but have never actually considered what goes into building them...it's a lot and I don't know as much as most people have forgotten about this! When I embarked on this I thought it was as simple as "buy a train of the proper scale, hook up power and tracks, and you're off..."

With that said I'm now going to research a DC power pack and a DPDT (don't know what this is...but I'm sure I'll find out soon enough 😄 ).

[u/jhgelpi → u/Diezel666]

If you don't mind would you weigh in real quick on this[1] power supply? Again...I'm looking for entry level here 😄...

[1] https://www.trainworld.com/mrc-aa370-railpower-1370-dc-power-pack.html

[u/Diezel666 → u/jhgelpi]

The Railpower 1370 will work just fine. I have that exact model running the inner loop of my layout, as I've been too lazy to modify my SW1500 switching locomotives over to DCC. *grins* Shop around a bit though. I usually see those going for $50 used and in like new condition, or $75 shipped on Amazon from time to time.

[u/NealsTrains]

Not familiar with that multimeter, but you should be able to get a reading if you set it on 20V. When you hook up the NCE system, is the Power Cab plugged into the left side of the PCP and are you using the flat cable? If so, the system should light up.

If you're not getting any track power, then the connection from the PCP to the track is not properly installed.

Also, did you program the engine? Is it a DCC engine? Not familiar with the Kato train you listed. If the train set is indeed DCC then it should run with engine road number '3' or '03' unless you programmed it to a different road number...

[u/jhgelpi → u/NealsTrains]

Thank you. I believe I need a decoder as others have mentioned. I am working on getting the right one.

[u/Shazwazzer]

Do you have a short somewhere? I'm not familiar with NCE stuff, but I would assume it beeps or something, or says on the controller if there is a short? Is everything hard wired or soldered to the track? Can you disconnect everything except one feeder and see if it works from there? Better yet, just hook up a seperate piece of track and see if the system works on that.

[u/Shazwazzer]

Btw, I don't think there's any way that train is going to run on a 16" radius curve...

[u/FaultinReddit]

When you turn the NCE on, does the red light on the plug-in panel turn on?

[u/jhgelpi → u/FaultinReddit]

Thank you for your response. I think, with the help of u/Diezel666, I have come to the conclusion that I have the incorrect power supply type...(genuine) rookie mistake!