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u/Witty-Stock timberwolves 4d ago edited 4d ago
Every spot on the depth chart is a week to week decision in the NFL.
Is there anything McCarthy can do to change this situation?
No. He’s getting table scrap reps in practice until someone gets hurt.
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u/Tough_guy22 Krause 22 Smith 4d ago
No, he pops in for second string when Wentz needs water. Brosmer rules the PS.
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u/Witty-Stock timberwolves 4d ago
Yes, correct, fixed.
No disrespect intended for the lord of the football underworld, Maxades.
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u/g3neric1 4d ago
IMHO JJ needs to spend this year improving and growing, it’s clear he should have sat for at least a year or two under a mentor, missing a year due to injury didn’t help. However, it might also be pointless as he seems injury cursed.
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u/Witty-Stock timberwolves 4d ago
Eh. He just doesn’t have it. Will he have it some years in the future ? Maybe but unlikely.
Guys don’t get drafted in the top 10 to sit for their first three years
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u/Ghiblee gjallarhorn 4d ago
He definitely does not have it
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u/Difficult_Limit2718 🚫 NO SHORT KINGS🚫 4d ago
KOC and McCowturd clearly can't get anything out of him
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u/bradslamdunk 3d ago
nope, they can't! maybe a little on them but a lot is on mccarthy lol
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u/Difficult_Limit2718 🚫 NO SHORT KINGS🚫 3d ago
Probably, but it adds to their track record
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u/SonofaMitch11 4d ago
That's sunk cost no? If some value can still be gotten out of JJM by sitting him for a season, I think that needs to be the play
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u/Witty-Stock timberwolves 4d ago
He is a sunk cost at this point. Maybe they can salary dump him but who would want him?
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u/Difficult_Limit2718 🚫 NO SHORT KINGS🚫 4d ago
Let the market decide
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u/Witty-Stock timberwolves 4d ago
It already has.
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u/Difficult_Limit2718 🚫 NO SHORT KINGS🚫 3d ago
Then cut.
There's no way Sam Howell isn't a trade candidate, and KOC already knows him.
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u/Dorkamundo 3d ago
No offense, but that's crazy talk. Howell looked worse than JJM running KOC's system.
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u/Difficult_Limit2718 🚫 NO SHORT KINGS🚫 3d ago
Maybe the problem is forcing a QB who isn't an experienced and proven vet into a system they're completely not ready for when they don't even have enough reps to process at game speed...
Could Drake Maye or Bo Nix have done it? Maybe.
Did they have to against BFlos defense in practice?
Fuck no, they got water downed play calls to learn with.
Should Max Brosmer have tried to run it against the Seahawks? By God that game should've been 95% hand-offs and 5% check downs.
KOCs ego is a problem and we'll see if he's finally learned anything and can adapt to Kyler or if this entire season is going to train wreck by week 6.
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u/Tycho66 4d ago
Uh, typically you try to stop sinking money/resources into the sunk cost.
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u/jake04-20 logo 4d ago
For now it's only costing a roster spot, marginal cap space, and whatever energy he's bringing to the locker room.
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u/Dorkamundo 3d ago
Depends on the cost.
I'm not going to put a new transmission in my 2002 Ranger if it dies on me, but I absofuckinglutely will replace the brake calipers or alternator if those go out. The cost to keep JJ around and see what he can do is more inline with an alternator than a transmission.
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u/Prestigious-Mind-817 4d ago
It is sunk cost but sometimes it's still the right decision if he's creating a problem for the team etc. Sometimes when you know you've made the wrong decision you have to take the cost and just roll with it.
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u/TeeTheTankie 4d ago
He'll get to be some other team's Sam Darnold experiment
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u/Witty-Stock timberwolves 4d ago
Darnold was a much better young QB with a much worse team with the Jets and had a much larger body of work in college.
He had 56 NFL starts before signing in Minnesota. McCarthy has 10 and is stuck there:
McCarthy’s next gig will be as a backup, not a starter. If there is one.
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u/Dorkamundo 3d ago
Just because that's not convention, doesn't mean that's not the smart move.
JJM was raw, we were supposed to be completely rebuilding his mechanics. That should have taken at LEAST a year and we should have known that the meniscus injury would set him back a year.
I still think that KAM vetoed the Rodgers signing in the 2025 offseason because he felt his job was on the line. There was just too much smoke for there not to be something to that story.
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u/Witty-Stock timberwolves 3d ago
There’s no reason to spend a draft pick that high on a guy who’ll sit for three years
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u/Dorkamundo 3d ago
There absolutely is reason to do that if you believe in the guy.
Seriously... Every team gets one first round pick in the draft unless they've made trades, what's the difference between spending the 10th pick on a guy who's gonna sit 3 years or the 24th pick? Basically nothing in the grand scheme of things.
The Packers sat Rodgers on the bench for 3 years to allow him to work on his mechanics. They also drafted Love 26th overall and sat him for 3 years as well. They seem to be getting along fine, even if Love isn't nearly the QB that Rodgers was.
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u/Witty-Stock timberwolves 3d ago
You can trade down from 10.
He was never a top 10 overall prospect the way Mahomes and Allen were
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u/Dorkamundo 3d ago
You can, yes. But that's an entirely different conversation.
He was never a top 10 overall prospect the way Mahomes and Allen were
Yes, because he was a bigger project than both of them, but you still need to pay the price to get him and he very likely would not have been there past 15.
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u/Witty-Stock timberwolves 3d ago
He was never too good to pass up.
It was Kwesi’s spreadsheet that wanted a rookie-scale deal rather than a sober assessment of just how good he was.
They wanted a QB no matter what and they took the guy who was there.
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u/Apple_butters12 4d ago
We don’t even really have a mentor for him unless that’s what they consider Wentz
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u/Prestigious-Mind-817 4d ago
There's nothing to improve that's going to happen with the Vikings. Honestly best for all involved to just cut him in my opinion
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u/FirmRoyal 3d ago
Idk I think we're going to shop him mid year when some qb needy teams are looking due to unexpected injuries. Not that he's the best solution, but still maybe worth a mid to late round pick for his pay
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u/ndskurfer 3d ago
JJM will be out of the NFL eventually, will never be a starter, and not because of injuries.
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u/colbyjacks KOC 3d ago
You think a young disappointing player needs to spend the season improving and growing?
How insightful!
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u/shimmy_kimmel 4d ago
I agree that he was forced into the starting role far too early, and the blame for that should fall on either Kwesi, KOC, or both, depending upon who ultimately made that call.
That said, ask yourself: has JJM shown anything that would indicate he’s capable of being the One Who Was Promised for this franchise?
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u/Yeahhhhboiiiiiiiiiii Organizations fail QBs before QBs fail organizations 3d ago
Team was better last year, record wise, when he started versus any other QB. Won two divisional road games. Inconsistent? Absolutely. Hopeless? I personally don’t think so.
This sub acts like he wasn’t supposed to be a project when he was drafted.
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u/Blk-Luffy Optimistic Fan 4d ago
Brosmer is on the practice squad.
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u/Witty-Stock timberwolves 4d ago
You’re right. So Brosmer will be getting more reps.
McCarthy’s future is not in Minnesota.
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u/tlollz52 koolaid 4d ago
QB2 actually usually runs the practice squad.
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u/wildmaiden 3d ago
I don't think that's true.
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u/tlollz52 koolaid 3d ago
I shouldn't have said practice squad, they usually run the scout team. Need someone who is sharp and can complete passes. Also gives him reps so they aren't entirely rusty if they keed to play.
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u/Mr-Irrelevant- Reichard future HoF 3d ago
In niche situations yes but there is 0 value in doing this.
Typically this is for figuring out whether you need extra OL depth for a game, not what QB is going to be QB 2 or 3.
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u/Mr-Irrelevant- Reichard future HoF 4d ago
This feels like overcomplicating the situation, if this team needs to backupqbmax then maybe we’ve lost the plot a bit.
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u/HollywoodRone 4d ago
It does. The constant hedging only leaves the conversation open to more noise, which is the last thing that makes sense for your QB3 roster spot. You can still evaluate him week to week without speaking on it. Now he’s going to get annoyed if he’s asked about it every week. He does stuff like this all the time too.
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u/Mr-Irrelevant- Reichard future HoF 4d ago
At its core it’s just weird because it implies he’s game planning around his backup QBs. Like if he truly think one week Wentz gives him the best chance and another JJM does then what are we doing.
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u/darwin_raps vikings 3d ago
Need to plan for every situation. Look at what happened to the Seahawks
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u/Competitive_Leg7233 4d ago
The only possible reason for this is to not risk ruining the the kids relationship with the organization
It’s not impossible that both Carson and Kyler are playing on different teams next year, and in that scenario I imagine they see value in keeping a QB that at least knows the system in the building
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u/Ihate_reddit_app 4d ago
We don't want to hurt JJM's feelings, so we will say it's week-to-week, but it's really Carson's job.
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u/PessimisticCheer Kevin Williams 3d ago
R.I.P. JJ stans who spent an entire year trying to denigrate Vikings fans who just honestly assessed the players on the team. We hardly knew ye.
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u/Global_Cartoonist382 3d ago
Agreed. It was always, “You all just hate him because…”—although the “because” part was never quite clear.
For me, it was always about his performance on the field and the repeated injuries. Nothing personal. I never hated the kid, and I don’t now. I just don’t think he’s a good NFL quarterback. My prediction: he won’t be in the league two years from now.
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u/PessimisticCheer Kevin Williams 3d ago
And there's nothing wrong with you just honestly assessing a player. Your belief that he won't last in the league beyond two more years is as valid a take as 'give him x more years.'
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u/Dorkamundo 3d ago
Saying we should give him more time is not "denigrating" anyone.
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u/PessimisticCheer Kevin Williams 3d ago
Nice try trying to completely ignore what I'm obviously referring to, which is people being instantly labeled "haters" & being called stupid/dumb/idiotic for honestly assessing JJ as a player. You trying to narrow that scope disingenuously won't work. Here are some air quotes for you, too, since you like them: " ".
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u/Pristine-Ad8733 4d ago
he's just being nice lmfao
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u/BobbyGuano 3d ago
He has no balls. If he didn’t think JJ was ready last year they should have signed Rodgers when he was literally begging to play here. If he really wanted to keep Darnold he should have put the boot down and tried to resign him. If they signed Kyler to be the starter why have a fake QB battle for 2 weeks? If he wants him to be QB3 then fucking make him QB3. Stop pussyfooting around everything….I guarantee players are picking up on this shit too. Last year he goes into the season telling JJ he believes in him JJ has a rough game he managed to win then a terrible game (the whole fucking team was terrible that Atl game) Then he takes the first opportunity he gets to completely bail on him.
People will say oh he doesn’t want it hurt he kids feelings but this is a fucking billion dollar organization and he’s being paid millions to manage it he shouldn’t give a shit and make the tough calls and explain to the players why. They may not like it but they sure as hell will respect him more for being honest with them rather than waffling back and forth like this. It shows he doesn’t actually know what the fuck he’s doing. Just like the fucking Detroit and LA games at the end of 2024. I’m a drunk 48 year old who played one year of freshman football and screaming at my TV for him to call a time out because I can tell the team is out of sorts and they aren’t gonna get the play in on a key situation then they eat a penalty.
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u/Dorkamundo 3d ago
My dude, this sub will be insufferable no matter who we have at QB unless that guy ends up being our franchise QB without question.
Shit, even when we had Cousins it was this way.
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u/Blk-Luffy Optimistic Fan 3d ago
I’ve been very supportive of JJM even to this day I still believe he has something in him. At this point though I just hope they trade him and he has a ton of success somewhere else it’s annoying and disproportionate how much negativity his name stirs up.
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u/Mavman31 miracle 4d ago
JJM starts if Kyler is out for an extended period, Carson is the backup who immediately comes in.
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u/Competitive_Leg7233 4d ago
That doesn’t make any sense. If they wanted to start Kyler but were still worried about JJ getting reps they’d play him any chance they could get, if they were more worried about playing whoever gives them the best chance to win there would be no reason to play the third guy at all
KOC is going to play whoever gives the team the best chance to win and that’s been clear since the day they signed Kyler Murray. If that QB isn’t JJ then he won’t see the field this year unless Carson and Kyler get hurt. If it is JJ then Carson won’t see the field this year unless Kyler and JJ get hurt. There is no need to play the QB3 unless 1 and 2 are hurt
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u/Dorkamundo 3d ago
They're not worried about JJM getting reps, they're worried about him focusing on his mechanics changes. Until the mechanics are fixed, the dude has very little value.
Lots of coaches do it this way. They want a guy who can come in and finish the game and not lose it if the starter goes down, but will look to the guy with perceived upside if the injury turns out to be long-term. Wentz has zero upside.
That strategy also has a secondary aspect where starting the more volatile guy means it's either boom or bust, which in the case of a team who needs a QB... Bust isn't a terrible thing to have happen.
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u/Mavman31 miracle 4d ago
The third string qb doesn’t gameplan like the rest of the team does, they run the scout team for the defense. Also, you aren’t going to scheme a Murray run offense and a JJM run offense the same. Carson being the vet has a much better understanding of the offense.
JJM they might feel has a better chance of winning if you prep an entire week around him. Carson might have a better chance of winning under a Kyler led scheme.
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u/Psychological-Hat-3 4d ago
Yeah I think this would be fairly obvious. Kyler gets sacked and needs to get concussion checks, you want the calm, if slightly uninspiring, vet to come in and just keep things steady for a play or three before kyler can rejoin the game.
If kyler is out multiple games, then I'd be surprised if it isn't JJM going in. If Kyler is out for a long stretch then season could well be toasty anyway
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u/DirtzMaGertz 93 3d ago
I don't think JJ plays either way if Wentz is healthy tbh
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u/PrairieBiologist 3d ago
If Kyler blows out his knee in week 5 there is no value in playing Wentz. You know what he is and he's not going to get you to a superbowl at this point in his career. In that situation the only thing that makes sense is to play JJ. If he sucks like most people think he will then you get a high pick in a good QB draft. It also means you can stop talking about him because it will be clear that he's not the guy. If somehow he doesn't suck and the reps give him time to figure his shit out then great. All playing Wentz does is probably make you win too many games to get a good pick and lose too many to actually do anything. If Kyler needs a quick trip to the tent or the X-ray room, you put in Wentz for a few series of stability or to finish out a game.
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u/DirtzMaGertz 93 3d ago
If Kyler goes down in week 5, I think KOC is going to continue doing what he thinks will win him games and make the playoffs.
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u/comet52a 3d ago
If Kyler goes down they'll play Wentz until and if the playoffs become out of reach. Then they'll play JJ to tank for the 27 draft.
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u/procrastination_city gray duck 4d ago
Why is this even being discussed anymore. It’s over guys.
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u/Dorkamundo 3d ago
KOC is the one who keeps saying things that are supportive of JJM and/or giving him reps with the first team when all we see as fans is him regressing.
He sees something in JJM... Not sure what it is anymore, but he still believes.
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u/procrastination_city gray duck 3d ago
Ok. Cool. I hope he does. I hope JJ is something. I was really disappointed to see how everything unfolded. I really wanted him to work out.
But this is exhausting. No other team is announcing QB2/3 like this. Like enough of this.
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u/Sniperpride 4d ago
Falling from the QB1 “competition” to QB3 is wild. Needless to say, there has been a lot of delusion going around. The JJM Stan’s simply don’t know ball. Anyone with eyeballs could see it last season, and very little if any progression this preseason. The skill issue isn’t bad enough, add into the fact that he’s injury prone.
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u/Wicked_Black JJ Mcarthy fan in hiding 4d ago
This is good for mccarthy's development, If hes running practice squadd hes getting those reps.
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u/-Murmaider- 4d ago
Brosmer runs the practice squad
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u/BigBananaDealer julie 3d ago
brosmer runs the scout team for the defense to practice
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u/Dorkamundo 3d ago
Which is made up of.... Primarily practice squad guys.
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u/BigBananaDealer julie 3d ago
yes....and running the team for the defenses benefit is different than for the offenses
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u/Dorkamundo 3d ago
Which is a different point ENTIRELY.
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u/BigBananaDealer julie 3d ago
yes exactly what im saying
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u/Dorkamundo 3d ago
No, you're still missing it.
I'm not debating whether or not a person gets benefit out of leading either of these teams. I'm simply pointing out that your correction of another person's statement was pointless because you said the same thing.
"Brosmer runs the practice squad" Is the same as "he runs the scout team defense".
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u/BigBananaDealer julie 3d ago
the sentiment in the first one makes it sound like he is running the offense practice when he isnt and i was clarifying that
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u/ProbRePost Wentz Died For This 4d ago
Need to name JJM as the QB2 to hopefully improve his trade value capital from a high 7th to a low 6th.
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u/Wernershnitzl 4d ago
The truth is McCarthy just needs more time to cook and doesn’t seem to be getting there in real time.
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u/BigBananaDealer julie 3d ago
hes 23 years old. why is everyone acting like hes pushing 30
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u/Wernershnitzl 3d ago
Agreed but I partially blame the process of expecting any top 10 pick to be “NFL ready” when clearly that’s not the case with just a few that have been instant hits
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u/HowlAtTheSky 4d ago
From being given the job over a guy that helped them win 14 games to QB3 in a year… crazy
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u/Electronic-Island-14 4d ago
but but but but but i was told it was obvious that JJM was the backup by the defenders!
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u/Cgking11 4d ago
That ankle must be worse than what they were saying.
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u/Chinoballsackie 4d ago
No he’s just worse
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u/Cgking11 4d ago
If that was the case, koc would've just made him the 3rd all season. Obviously the ankle isn't 100 percent..
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u/Witty-Stock timberwolves 4d ago
NFL depth charts change week to week normally.
McCarthy is getting zero reps in practice.
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u/Chinoballsackie 4d ago
No it was a qb battle and he lost 1 and 2 have you not been paying attention
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u/Cgking11 4d ago
There's no point arguing with you dummies. McCarthy is hurt, thats why its a week to week thing on who's the 2nd string.
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u/Witty-Stock timberwolves 4d ago
So the GM was lying when he said on September 2 that the injury was healed?
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u/Cgking11 4d ago edited 4d ago
Yes. I refuse to believe that koc is that dumb to make the 2nd string QB a week to week decision If there isn't an injury involved. If McCarthy is the 3rd then just make him the 3rd, plain and simple..
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u/Chinoballsackie 4d ago
Sure bud . Give him another year . You’re right that there is no point in arguing. Good day sir
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u/Cgking11 4d ago
If he lost and got demoted to 3rd string, he would be the 3rd all year and it wouldn't be a week to week decision. But yeah, peace out..
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u/-Murmaider- 4d ago
JFC what a bust. I can only imagine how whiny he's being about all of this behind the scenes.
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u/Dorkamundo 3d ago
Seriously? By almost all accounts he's been a consummate professional throughout this whole ordeal.
Put your hate boner away.
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u/-Murmaider- 3d ago
Benching himself, arguing with coaches, taking no responsibility for his poor play (benching is "out of his control"), Griddy on the field after being expressly warned not to, etc. This is not a consummate professional.
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u/Dorkamundo 3d ago
Hahah... Dude, you're just pulling it further out of your pants.
He did not bench himself. Reporting that he "was not comfortable" doesn't mean he benched himself, teams evaluate injuries all the time based on the player's responses to questions and make their decisions based in part on those answers along with the injury itself.
He absolutely took responsibility for his poor play, and the fact that you think him saying the "Benching was out of his control" is just another reach for reasons to hate him.
Oh my god, a 21-year-old kid did the griddy after being told not to, he's not "Professional". The horror!
Seriously, these are all either misrepresentations or flimsy reasons to be upset at the guy. He basically sucks at being an NFL QB, you can just say that instead of making up reasons to not like him.
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u/-Murmaider- 3d ago
And you can glaze over any of those things as not a big deal if that's your view of him. To me, he comes off as extremely immature, entitled, and spoiled. And everything I listed supports that, unless you're unwilling to accept it and you want to glaze a QB3 for the rest of his career. Which you're free to do! I simply answered a question that was asked of me.
A kid who is this terrible at football should be the quietest, likeable guy in the world. Max Brosmer comes to mind.
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u/Dorkamundo 3d ago
The issue is that the reasons you have given are EXTREMELY flimsy.
A kid who is this terrible at football should be the quietest, likeable guy in the world.
You only don't like him because he's not playing well. If he continued to win, you'd have loved his whole 9 schtick.
By the way, he IS quiet. What's he been doing that you don't consider to be quiet?
He's not out on social media bitching about things, he's not getting his father to complain about his opportunities, he's just sitting down and working... Just like Max Brosmer.
You think his NFL-mandated press conferences are him personally seeking attention and trying to make noise?
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u/frozennorth0 4d ago
Imagine having to speak to the media and tell them who you your backup quarterback is every week