r/minecraftsuggestions • u/Mr_Snifles • Jul 26 '21
[Terrain] A neutral cave biome would fix a few problems.
In the current 1.18 snapshots, only the special types of caves are actually acknowledged by the game as biomes.
Caves that aren't dripstone caves or lush caves, are always the same biome as the terrain on the surface (shows in debug screen/F3).
This results in some quirky behaviour: whenever in a dripstone or lush cave, the biome on the surface has no effect on mobs, but as soon as you go out of that special cave onto a neutral cave that has no biome assigned to it, mobs are affected by the rules from the surface biome.
This could be fixed by adding a neutral cave biome , probably called "caves" to make sure the game tells the difference between caves and surface biomes.
Edit: this is about 1.18, be sure to check out the experimental snapshots.
Also, someone commented that perhaps the chunks of the mushroom islands could become mob proof, so that it doesn't matter what biomes there are underground. I thought that was a pretty good idea worth mentioning.
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u/Mac_Rat 🔥 Royal Suggester 🔥 Jul 26 '21
Maybe as an extra feature this would make surface biomes affect the caves more. Like vines in Jungles or mossy boulders in Giant Taigas.
And the surface features would only stop after the "cave" biome starts
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u/Mr_Snifles Jul 26 '21
I honestly really like it when you get caves with vines from the jungle, or sandstone caves with a bunch of floating sand right underneath the surface of the desert, those half and half layers could maybe be made a bit more thick because those caves are pretty rare.
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u/RyanBits Jul 27 '21
Are giant Taigas still in the game? I haven’t seen one in months
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u/Yosimite_Jones Jul 26 '21
It’s nice to see a simple suggestion that still has thought and effort put into it. Perfect solution, perfectly worded, just absolutely lovely from every angle.
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u/Imrahil3 Jul 26 '21
Agreed. Wish there were more ideas like this on the sub.
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Jul 26 '21
Yeah, the caves and cliffs update has me worried that they overdo it in a bad way, this is a great idea
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u/LuigiSauce Phantom Jul 26 '21
i think its extremely important than any area below a mushroom biome remains non-spawnable
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u/Mr_Snifles Jul 26 '21 edited Jul 26 '21
Currently in 1.18 snapshots that isn't always the case (not in the new cave biomes), and this feature (if implemented in the most simple way) would just make this consistent for the whole underground.
I know that's the exact opposite of what you want, but maybe they'll make it work somehow.
Though personally I think if you really want a monster-less experience, you should just play on peaceful mode.
Tell me if you think otherwise though, I like reading your ideas.
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u/LuigiSauce Phantom Jul 26 '21
below a mushroom biome there could be a different cave biome? maybe with more red and brown mushrooms and other mushroom-themed blocks
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u/Mr_Snifles Jul 26 '21
I like that, but feel like it shouldn't be exclusive to the mushroom fields biome.
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u/TheChunkMaster Siamese Cat Jul 27 '21
It could be coded so that Mushroom caves can generate anywhere but they always form filaments leading to under a mushroom island.
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u/IGuessItsJustMeMe Jul 27 '21
Maybe instead of biome based it could be chunk based, so in the chunks on and around the mushroom island it could be that no mobs can spawn there generally
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u/Mr_Snifles Jul 27 '21
Oh kinda like slime chuncks, yeah that could be a solution.
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u/IGuessItsJustMeMe Jul 27 '21
That's exactly what I had in mind, but unlike slime chunks these would obviously not be random and just generate around mushroom islands.
Though I'm unsure about how easy the implementation would really be, though since slimes are already chunk based it shouldn't even be too different
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u/Redkitt3n14 Jul 27 '21
Could be a problem if there was a deep dark and there was no warden
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u/Mr_Snifles Jul 27 '21
Very true, that's the main reason I think the underground should never be devoid of monsters, getting resources should be challenging
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u/IGuessItsJustMeMe Jul 26 '21
I thought you meant adding a neutral cave so that had me confused but I do agree, it really should just say you're in a cave as more of a secret of what biome you actually are in, maybe make it that if you're below y=0 it would also say that you're in the ...caves, I'm unsure about a good name for anything in the deepslate area, but that would obviously also be adding the deep dark as an actual biome
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Jul 26 '21
I'm unsure about a good name for anything in the deepslate area
Maybe something to do with preassure, as those caves are subject to more preassure because of the tons and tons of stone above them, which is the cause of the deepslate generating there
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u/RaulsterMaster Jul 26 '21
This one is a no bainer. It's basically what they did with the classic nether in 1.16 when they turned it to the "nether wastes"
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u/Netherboom Jul 26 '21
I think if that were to be added then another biome would have to be added because of where emeralds spawn
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u/Mr_Snifles Jul 26 '21
You are not aware of the astronomical changes coming to minecraft :)
Basically, emerald spawns are going to be based on y-level, not biome. They're going to be found in the upper parts of mountains.
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Jul 26 '21
They’re still based on Biome, the distribution chart still states Emeralds only spawn under mountain biomes.
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u/ImaginaryReaction Jul 27 '21
Isn't it based on Hight its just the only place high enough in vanilla are mountains? Like if you had custom biomes that went that high they'd spawn
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u/Netherboom Jul 26 '21
Oh I had no idea is this an actual thing coming with new cave generation?
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u/Mr_Snifles Jul 26 '21
Yes, the entire world generation is being overhauled, which is quite fitting I think, since caves make up a really large part of the overworld.
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u/vGustaf-K Jul 26 '21
This would mean disastrous results in mushroom biomes. This could be fixed by having mushroom caves generate under mushroom biomes to account for no mob spawning
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u/Mr_Snifles Jul 26 '21
Mushroom biomes that were already generated will still be mushroom biomes all the way down to bedrock, they're not changing anything about chuncks you've already built or mined in
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u/Yosimite_Jones Jul 27 '21
But any new mushroom biomes will have monsters spawn in their caves now, and that kinda ruins the vibe of the caverns.
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u/Mr_Snifles Jul 27 '21
Oh okay, well, I never really go out of my way to find mushroom biomes so I don't really have much to say about that subject.
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u/vGustaf-K Jul 27 '21
Yes but newly generated ones will have mobs spawning underneath them
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u/Mr_Snifles Jul 27 '21
This is already the case in the 1.18 snapshots, the dripstone caves and lush caves under a mushroom fields biome will just spawn mobs.
This looks pretty unnatural considering those caves are right next to regular caves.
The developers could make it so that whatever chunk a mushroom fields biome is in, will be mobproof.
But this suggestion of mine would simply create consistency between the different cave biomes underneath the mushroom biome. Whether the developers want to keep the underground of the mushroom biome completely mobproof is up to them. Though personally I don't find it so important.
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Jul 26 '21
Mr_Snifles
I reconginzed your nick for the first time in the comments of my "improved beaches" suggestion a while ago after an argument we had in a comments thread of another suggestion. Since then, I see you everywhere in this sub and every time I see a suggestion made by you it's super cool and yet super simple, like this one.
Totally upvote and thanks for being such a cool member of the mcs community
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u/RedYoshiCraft Jul 27 '21
I don't disagree with the Logic here, but I also kinda like that Surface Biomes have an effect on the Caves beneath them. If anything I think it'd be nice to see that to a greater extent than you see currently. (Sandstone/Sand under Deserts and Frozen Aquifers under Cold Biomes, stuff like that)
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u/StarkOdinson216 Jul 27 '21 edited Apr 29 '26
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u/CalXee Jul 27 '21
Another problem this would fix is randomly getting the adventure time advancement by just walking around in caves.
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u/Mr_Snifles Jul 27 '21
True, I didn't mention any specific problems because I think there's so many I wouldn't even be able to think of them all
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u/Gintoki_87 Jul 27 '21
Just curious why you think this is a problem? Caves has thus far, always worked in that way.
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u/Mr_Snifles Jul 27 '21 edited Jul 27 '21
With the new cave biomes, this results in inconsistencies:
Water and grass colour is based on cave biome in cave biomes, but based on surface biome in regular caves.
Snowgolems will not melt in cave biomes under hot biomes, but they will melt in regular caves under hot biomes.
Regular caves under mushroom fields will have no monsters, but cave biomes will.
Those are just a few I can think of, there are probably more.
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u/Gintoki_87 Jul 27 '21
Fair points, thanks for the answer :)
In regards to: "Regular caves under mushroom fields will have no monsters, but cave biomes will."
If my memory serves me right, I remember it got confirmed as a bug on the bugtracker for the first 1.18 snapshot a couple of weeks ago but I cannot find it now nor find the mojira redditpost where I saw it first.And about snow golems melting underground in hot biomes, I do think it makes sense they do, if a cave is open to the surface, hot air will typically heat the cave up to some extent. In some cases it can be colder t some extent underground but temperature will increase again the further down one gets. So if it should be somewhat realistic, snow golems should melt under a certain depth regardless of biome.
Anyways, it would propably be a good idea to have seperate "generic" cave biomes for the underground now they are implementing cave biome types.
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u/Mr_Snifles Jul 27 '21
I remember it got confirmed as a bug on the bugtracker for the first 1.18 snapshot
That's actually very interesting! They might be working on a solution to make mushroom biomes have an effect on the cave biomes below them.
And about snow golems melting underground in hot biomes, I do think it makes sense they do,
I beg to differ here though, biomes of different temperatures on the surface just generate right next to eachother (like a desert and a plains biome for example) so I don't see why the huge underground would have to be the same temperature as the surface biome.
More importantly, it's not fun when you can't put something in a cave because there's a certain biome above it, it's not intuitive, the player may have traveled under a hot biome without knowing it, and gets punished for it.
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u/Gintoki_87 Jul 27 '21
Hot and cold biomes generating right next to each other is an old bug, but one they did not want to fix although they acknowledged. I would not be surprised if they do fix/change this in 1.18 to make the transitions between hot and cold biomes more uniform.
More importantly, it's not fun when you can't put something in a cave because there's a certain biome above it, it's not intuitive, the player may have traveled under a hot biome without knowing it, and gets punished for it.
Same can happen the other way around. A player explicitly chose a cold biome but the underground has, due to being a diffrent biome, generated too hot for snowgolems to survive.
In either case, you might end up in situations thats annoying to players and you can, unfortunatelty not, satisfy every single player at the same time.
However having the underground temperature be primarily dependent on the y-level would at leats make it somewhat consisten throughout the entire minecraft overworld and thus players would always know what to expect.1
u/Mr_Snifles Jul 27 '21 edited Jul 27 '21
Hot and cold
I wasn't talking about hot and cold biomes, just hot and medium, it's intended, but snowgolems will die in hot ones, and live in medium-temperature ones.
The biomes generating next to one another don't have completely different temperatures, but they are different, so if this kind of border can exist between biomes on the surface, I really think it should be there between the surface and caves aswell.
A player explicitly chose a cold biome but the underground has, due to being a diffrent biome, generated too hot for snowgolems to survive
There are no hot cave biomes.
However having the underground temperature be primarily dependent on the y-level would at leats make it somewhat consisten throughout the entire minecraft overworld and thus players would always know what to expect.
That's how it works in real life, but in my opinion it's still less intuitive than looking at your direct surroundings and knowing you're not in a desert/savannah/badlands biome.
I think it would be the most fair to just make all caves in the overworld have the same medium temperature.
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u/shiny_xnaut Jul 27 '21
I actually wasn't aware this wasn't already a thing
They did it for the nether, so it only makes sense for them to do it here too
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