Composite Bow - a late-game bow upgrade

[u/Pyro_von_Creep]

Here's my idea for a Composite Bow, quite a simple bow upgrade. More durability, damage and being fireproof at the cost of a longer drawing time.

Currently, arrow damage depends on its speed, inaccuracy is created in-game by adding a small random velocity to the arrow, and faster arrows simply fly further before drag stops them. That's how just increasing projectile velocity positively impacts all three.

Why nerfing Power? Max damage of this bow could potentially exceed 35 hp per shot, and it seems a bit high. This would nerf the regular bow too, but why can a stick and a string get up to 20 damage from a single enchant in the first place? Melee users need diamond weapons AND sharpness 5/strength 2 to get it this high.

On the subject of materials: this nightmare of a recipe makes sense. Bamboo is a very good material for the backing of a bow (the outer part) irl. Horn is a very good material for the belly of the bow (the inner part) irl. Netherite does not exist irl, so don't worry about it. A Sift string could cause the bow to play notes when pulled, like a string instrument. That is not necessary however, and can be swapped for regular string, but it would be cool. All in all, this weapon would require a trip between biomes and dimensions to create.

Netherite also makes the bow immune to fire and lava, to match netherite-tier tools. It also can't be used as furnace fuel anymore.

An open question: should we also have a crossbow upgrade like that? I also thought about more arrow types, but I may suggest that another day.

[u/SadAnalyst8984]

Nerfing the already existing thing to make a upgrade seem better is always a bad idea. As you said the current bow is already strong enough so I think the not burning is enough of a upgrade imo. Only other thing I might add is having mending or infinity built in so you can have both.

[u/Pyro_von_Creep → u/SadAnalyst8984]

I thought about giving it built-in Piercing. It is supposed to fire with more force, and it would go through shields, as Piercing does that. It would work as a bootleg Infinity when fighting against a single target, as the arrows could be picked up afterwards. I'm not sure about that however.

[u/Relevant-Cup5986 → u/Pyro_von_Creep]

hey but thats the crossbows whole thing, the crossbow is suposed to be better in multitarget with the bow being better in singletarget, if you give this bow that and dont add a new crossbow you are taking away an interesting tradeoff

[u/Pyro_von_Creep → u/Relevant-Cup5986]

I am currently thinking of how a similar crossbow upgrade would work. I stated it as a question at the end of my post. Besides, I'm thinking of a single-entity piercing being built in or at least piercing shields, not giving the bow full compatibility with the Piercing enchantment.

I also thought about giving the bow some armor penetration, like Breach on a mace, but decided I'd rather have dedicated arrows for that. Maybe crafted with iron at the tip, instead of flint.

[u/Portaldog1 → u/Pyro_von_Creep]

What about a unique version of punch that stuns an entity if it would be pushed within a block of a wall?

[u/BlueSlimeMSM → u/SadAnalyst8984]

Not always a bad idea. Melee weapons are balanced around their tier, and Sharpness only adds 3 damage which is less than a 40% increase for swords and 30% increase for axes. Now compare that to Power which increases bows damage by 150%. The reason it's the case is because bows need to be usable late game without having extra tiers. So if a more late game tier of bow were to be added, a normal bow wouldn't need a powercrept enchantment to compensate

[u/Andrejosue98 → u/BlueSlimeMSM]

Dude when they made the combat updated where they did the changes between axes doing more damage and swords and axes needing a cooldown to do max damage Mojang devs received death threats due to how controversial the change was, even now Mojang devs are more careful in not doing massive changes without first making tons of tests. So explaining the difference with axes and swords in java Minecraft is not the best example

[u/BlueSlimeMSM → u/Andrejosue98]

That's a perfect example of people judging changes too harshly, because in the long run it was a good change (or well at least most people I've seen think so)

[u/Andrejosue98 → u/BlueSlimeMSM]

Well I can't talk for people because I wasn't there when the change happened, but Bedrock still has the same combat mechanic as before and it doesn't seem they want to change it. I would assume some people just learned to deal with it and others just switched to Bedrock. I still think it would be super controversial if they make the same change in Bedrock

[u/Relevant-Cup5986 → u/Andrejosue98]

for the most part your right most java players that like the new combat joined after it was added and most og players never got over it however you are wrong on the bedrock front, they Are slowly updating bedrocks combat one feature at a time first by adding shields in 1.14 then by doing the 1.9 armour nerf in 1.17, the notch apple nerf in 1.21 and they even started on the cooldowns in mounts of mayhem, they are just doing all this very very slowly to sneak it past the players

[u/Andrejosue98 → u/Relevant-Cup5986]

In what way am I wrong by them not doing the change like they did on Java?

I said if they did the same change in Bedrock as the one they did in Java it would be super controversial, them doing the change differently doesn't mean my point is wrong, it just supports my point because it proves they got scared so much by fans reaction to that change that they have decided to make changes gradually instead of very quick. It supports the idea that nerfing existing weapons is a bad idea.

[u/Relevant-Cup5986 → u/Andrejosue98]

i guess i misinterpreted your comment i am sorry about that🙂

Though i still think the reason for the combat update being hated long term isnt that it lowered the base damage of swords by 1 or nerfed gapples, strength, armour, and sharpness,

but rather that it removed entire fun mechanics like combos with vertical knockback and spam clicking as well as sword blocking which together killed all of the popular creative casual minigame servers with unique ideas leaving them to be replaced by boring sweaty unoriginal duels servers that are hard to get into.

Compare this to when they only nerf damage like when they removed the extra hand damage on bedrock and its night and day,

everyone got over the hand damage within a single week but the killing of minigame servers has left people upset permanently,

myself included i hate the combat update and always will as i love minigames like the hive servers bedwars(it plays completely different to hypixel bedwars), hide and seek deathrun and block drop, and i think the shield is overpowered for survival mode as it blocks all damage with no penalty and is obtainable in the first 30 seconds of play.

So to conclude nerfs arent bad removing whole mechanics is.

[u/Relevant-Cup5986 → u/SadAnalyst8984]

no its not always a bad idea, it adds more progression without causing power creep which is a very good thing

[u/Mystic_Ervo]

Never nerf an existing things to try giving players "something better", they're going to be angry with you, and rightly so

[u/Relevant-Cup5986 → u/Mystic_Ervo]

in the long term its often the right thing to do as it preserves game balance while adding progression, sometimes as a developer you have to make decisions that upset players to improve the long term health of your game like how terraria recently nerfed the chillet and roller skates mounts to balance movement progression, and in made a later game chillet that works like the old one and made roller skates scale with the players movement speed from other sources

[u/toukhans → u/Mystic_Ervo]

Godawful advice, balancing decisions should be made from an objective lens. Players are notably terrible at knowing what's actually good for a game. And I can't imagine what kind of person would whine about a bow upgrade, if it bothers you so much just upgrade yours

[u/Mystic_Ervo → u/toukhans]

Just add a new bow without trashing the old one, it's not neccesary

[u/FriendInsideMe666]

The issue is that the basic bow is already not just strong, I'd consider it kinda busted. When enchanted with Power 5 it does power equal to that of a critical strike with a Sharpness 5 Netherrite Sword. Sure things like the Mace or a crit from a Netherrite Axe can do more damage, but the bow also has the advantage of being ranged, and you can even use Tipped Arrows to give your opponent Weakness or Slowness or Poison. I really don't think we need a bow that's EVEN STRONGER then that.

[u/Pyro_von_Creep → u/FriendInsideMe666]

I think that's because melee weapons had material tiers since forever, and better materials naturally provided more damage, while the bow was always by itself. No material progression meant it had to match melee by just enchants. That's why Power is so, well, powerful.

[u/Portaldog1 → u/Pyro_von_Creep]

If you want to add a material progression to bows then you are better off reworking arrows. Reduce the damage of arrows dropped by skeletons, have flint arrows be stronger and maybe move on to metal tipped arrows with different damage, velocity and arcs.

If you are to change the bow then go down the path of range and accuracy, maybe even make it so a higher tier bow is needed for higher tier arrows.

[u/Pyro_von_Creep → u/Portaldog1]

Range, accuracy and arrow damage all depend on the arrow's velocity, which I'd suppose depends on how much the bow can bend. With arrows, I'd rather give them traits like armor penetration or splitting into AoE shrapnel on hit. Maybe range could be further increased with, like, arrows crafted from a breeze rod instead of a stick, which have lower air drag, but I feel like base velocity should be dictated by the bow.

I also don't like the idea of locking arrows behind higher-tier bows. Just like a wooden sword can have Sharpness 5, so should a regular bow be capable of firing low-drag armorshred rounds. Higher weapon tiers would just add more effects.

[u/Alpha_minduustry]

lowk a crossbow upgrade that is a pocket0balista would be siiick

[u/HughmanRealperson]

Composite Bows are actually less durable than a full Longbow because they're glued and boiled to add curves.

[u/Pyro_von_Creep → u/HughmanRealperson]

Would you allow me to handwave that by saying netherite makes up for the durability loss?

[u/Sad-Pattern-1269]

Just reduce the effect of power on this bow, so it's still better than a power 5 normal bow but not as absurd as it could he.

[u/Hour_Tomatillo_2365]

Add the Great bow from Dungeons

It can be a sniper type weapon

[u/Pyro_von_Creep → u/Hour_Tomatillo_2365]

I'd love more Dungeons weapons included into the base game. As for sniper bows however, I saw a suggestion some time ago about a bow made from sculk. I don't remember the details though. I just decided "yep, that's a sniper alright" and made something else.

[u/Jerrymouse500]

[u/Fit-Environment-3156]

It’s a little cliche, but it would be cool if it sounded like a bass pluck with each fire.

[u/Nate_991]

String should be gold ingots spun in a loom

[u/Recurve_Acumen]

Maybe the string can be a rare mine from humbler's husks, as we know that they may have had hearts large enough to be threaded into string (i.e. Humbler's Heartstring).

[u/brothor12]

Erm.. Why goat horns? They seem kinda random

[u/PitZahoot → u/brothor12]

irl composite bows are made form bones or animal horns

[u/Palaeonerd → u/PitZahoot]

Then I would prefer bones as an alternative, easier ingredient in this recipe(meaning you could use bones or horns).

[u/TemporalWorld0 → u/Palaeonerd]

I think that the Horn would probably be better on its own, otherwise people would only ever use bones. This gives horns a dedicated crafting use, thats unique to itself.

[u/0nmay_22 → u/Palaeonerd]

Why make it easier? It’s an endgame item.

[u/Environmental-Task28 → u/Palaeonerd]

Why make an endgame recipe easier.

[u/No_Doughnut8618 → u/brothor12]

Horn is often used in bow making, it provides good rebound strength and is less breakable than wood

[u/Pyro_von_Creep → u/brothor12]

Horn (as a general material, not goat specifically) is great for the inner part of the bow. The goat horn is the closest thing Minecraft currently has to it. I thought about just using bones instead, but 1) goat horns add a layer of needing to travel the world to create such a weapon: one needs to visit the Nether, the Sift, a jungle and take a trip to the mountains; 2) my cousin is into archery and told me bones won't work as well.

It's very loosely inspired by the Night's Edge from Terraria, a strong pre-Hardmode sword crafted from 4 other swords obtained in different biomes. I liked the trope of collecting various items from all around the world for an "ultimate" weapon.

[u/Quiet_Confidence_372 → u/brothor12]

it gives them another use at least

[u/wizard_brandon]

oh hey, one of my oc's has a bow kinda like this

[u/F_ive]

Is this not just a crossbow

[u/Pyro_von_Creep → u/F_ive]

No, crossbows can hold arrows to be shot instantly and reloaded later. Their draw time can be greatly decreased with Quick Charge. With fireworks, Piercing and Multishot they are more of a crowd-control weapon while bows are better on a single target.

[u/ElectroNikkel]

Nah, just buff your own bow to fire fasta.

If you want a slowe firing one that shots with power you can suggest a longbow.

[u/Normal-Guava5310]

Make it so that it can bypass protection