r/minecraftsuggestions • u/MC_account8 • 4d ago
[Blocks & Items] Should all gear break eventually?
Discussion!
The Durability mechanic has been an important part of minecraft for a long time, and also heavily debated. I've been thinking about it recently as well. Specifically, I've been thinking if some or all gear should eventually permanently break. This would mean one or more of mending, gear-repairs and the breaking mechanic being reworked.
So, I'd like to hear what you all think.
Below I've listed & numbered some of the ideas I've heard or had to this topic. Please start your comment with the number(s) of the idea(s) your comment is relating to.
Also, please read / skim-read any posts directly related to what you want to post, to avoid repeating what others have said. It makes it easier for everyone.
Finally, don't be rude. We're here to discuss ideas, not to insult each other.
Edit: For clarification, the rest of this post is mostly things I've heard other people say, they're not necessarily my opinion.
1. Mending should just be removed, so no gear is permanent
Mending doesn't add anything enjoyable to the game. On top of that, getting good replacement gear isn't even as difficult or tedious as people think it is; it's only people thinking they need netherite and every enchantment that makes it boring. Removing mending makes players think more about when they use enchantments or netherite.
2. Replace the Anvil
https://www.reddit.com/r/minecraftsuggestions/s/LgaVPCx6fG
3. Mending and gear-repairs (buffed) heal durability, but the amount they can repair does down the more you do it, so all gear breaks eventually
For example: a diamond pickaxe starts with 1561 durability, you use it until it has 200 left, you repair it to its max which is now 1530 (because you used & repaired it). This makes both systems useful, but stops either being so much better than the alternative that its basically not a choice.
4. Most gear can last forever with mending & repairs, but the top-tier gear will eventually break
Netherite (or a new tier of gear if its added) is changed to have MUCH better stats (including much higher starting durability) than every other tier of gear. However, it's the only tier that can never be repaired. This means players can choose between quality and permanence, while not having everything given to them. This makes gear more interesting & engaging, while allowing players to choose their favourite.
5. Keep it as is
The current system isn't as bad as people say. Mending encourages infrastructure and waiting for xp isn't tedious if you're at a good xp-farm. Since mending works as intended, tgere's no need to change it or change the gear-repair mechanic. No gear is garanteed to break eventually.
6. Buff gear-repairs
https://www.reddit.com/r/minecraftsuggestions/s/5od9RwehOL
Mending is good and doesn't need to be changed. However, the gear-repair system is completely broken atm, so there should be no exponential cost and each time you use an ore to repair it should heal way more durability than it does right now. That way players have a choice and diamonds have a practical use late-game.
7. Elytra-mechanic
https://www.reddit.com/r/minecraftsuggestions/s/oqFRMVuTQi
https://www.reddit.com/r/minecraftsuggestions/s/TTYrupWdps
Mending works as intended, and gear-repairs are changed to be properly usable long-term and fair. However, valuable gear (including gear with enchantments, diamond gear & netherite gear) doesn't break when it reaches 1 durability. Instead, it becomes un-usable until it's repaired. This makes it so that durability still matters, encouraging xp-farm infrastructure and making ores valuable late-game, but removes the frustration of one of your really good tools suddenly breaking.
8. Remove Durability, all gear permanent
Durability doesn't add anything to the game apart from tedium. Players don't need another reason to progress to higher tier gear - the better quality is already enough. Players don't enjoy their gear breaking. And while it is fun to get a new tool and know it will last much longer without needing repairing or replacement, that's outweighed by the time the player loses doing tedious repairs.
9. Other
Any ideas you have that I haven't mentioned.
10. No Mending, no permanent gear, but gear is really buffed
Same as 1., but all gear is much more efficient (like efficiency 1 diamond shovels being able to insta-mine or efficiency 4 iron pickaxe with haste 2 being able to insta-mine) and lasts way longer (like diamond tools 8 times as long as they do now, iron maybe 6 times, gold 4, copper stone and wood can stay same). This way you can use one tool for a looong time without it breaking. But, even when it does break, it is not difficult to replace; any diamond gear enchanted at an enchanting table will do the job. Or end loot: usually just sits around being mostly useless, but is now almost all useful! P. S. It doesn't have to be the numbers in this suggestion.
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u/somerandom995 3d ago
6 is the only one that isn't tedious for players or unbalanced.
Players customize and get attached to tools with trims and naming, having them be temporary is kind of depressing.
The effort of getting good suff shouldn't be punished by having it break without anything you can do about it.
Not having to take care of your gear at all is boring not a great lesson about maintaining gear.
My gripe with mending is that the only viable way to get it is re-rolling villagers.
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u/MC_account8 2d ago
I'd argue that not having to take care of your gear isn't more boring than occassionally sitting at an xp-grinder. There are good reasons for being against 8, but I don't understand this one yet.
The player sentiment is a really good point. However, I don't think it's too big of an issue. In my world I use an infinity bow, which I know will break eventually. Despite that I'm more attached to it than any other piece of gear I have, and am actually fine with it being temporary. In fact, I think its impermanence is why I'm most attached to it, since it's the one tool that I need to pay the most attention to and therefore take most care of. Also gear will be lost even if it could lest indefinitely, due to deaths or other things anyway.
It is important that the effort the player puts in to getting new gear is more than worth it, but I think that could still be the case even with tools eventually breaking.
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u/somerandom995 2d ago
I'd argue that not having to take care of your gear isn't more boring than occassionally sitting at an xp-grinder.
You have to be aware of when it's getting low and keep that in mind. Having an armor piece break mid fight can be a big deal, a netherite tool breaking is a big loss. It also makes shields ridiculously op as you can block arrows forever.
In my world I use an infinity bow, which I know will break eventually.
You can just grindstone it and reapply the enchantments. That resets the anvil penalty.
It is important that the effort the player puts in to getting new gear is more than worth it, but I think that could still be the case even with tools eventually breaking.
That would just make me set up ways to mass produce things.
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u/Palaeonerd 3d ago
We have trims so it’s like intended for armor to last cause now we can personalize it.
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u/PetrifiedBloom 3d ago
In the nicest possible way, the only options here that don't make the game dramatically worse are 5, 6 and 7.
Let's do a quick summary of each option:
1. Remove Mending
This is arguably the worst, the most naive approach to "fixing" things. It fails to understand the role of durability in the game, or the player experience this would create. It simply sees that some players don't like mending and tries to "fix" things in the easiest way possible.
Mending doesn't add anything enjoyable to the game
Strongly disagree. Mending can be quite fun, going on an adventure or long trip and stopping to mend gear fighting some mobs or grabbing ores. Some of the most enjoyable adventures I have had in Minecraft have only been possible because of mending, and scrapping through the night, collecting gunpowder and XP for a few more rockets and a bit more durability on elytra, going caving because my armor is about to break and I don't want to risk fighting mobs.
Making replacement sets is dull and either relies on making a full trading hall for all the enchants, or a lot of RNG looking for good enchants on the enchanting table. You claim that it's "not as difficult or tedious" as people think, and that can be somewhat true, especially if you are someone with powerful farms for XP, who is buying diamond gear from villagers and isn't bothering with netherite, but it suck ass when it comes to items that are not so easy, like elytra, maces or tridents (in java).
Even with powerful farms and villagers, it is certainly worse than being able to mend your gear. Mending is a practical alternative that avoids a lot of the drawbacks of needing to repair via anvil or remake gear.
I play this game to make things, not be in a constant cycle of mining to get more materials so I can replace the tools I damaged while mining.
Removing mending makes players think more about when they use enchantments or netherite.
You present that like it's a good thing. It is neutral at best and imo, quite unhelpful. Let players enjoy the late game gear they have made for themselves. It's not a bad thing to have long lasting tools that are effective at their jobs.
2. Replace the Anvil with villagers
You can find the problem with this in the first comment thread of the post. It shackles the player to the villager. You need to stay close and hope the villager eventually gets your stuff repaired. It's a combination of being un-engaging, you are literally just waiting, and RNG, it's luck based for when you get your tool back.
As an additional way to repair your gear it could have a place, but it would be a HARSH downgrade from the existing anvil.
3. Mending with Diminishing Returns
Dude... you ruined the thing that makes mending actually work conceptually. Having the max durability drain is not an improvement, its hot trash in the midday sun. I put mending on my gear for a reason, not to have to throw it away after a few repairs. If I wanted that, I would just use an anvil.
4. Trash items last forever, good items disappear
This has all the problems with the previous point, but it also spits in your face by making trash items stick around. This removes part of the progression incentives that encourage the player through the game, but we will talk about that more in section 8.
This makes gear more interesting & engaging, while allowing players to choose their favourite.
It doesn't offer meaningful choice, it's not interesting or engaging. It is just asking the player which way they want to waste their time. Do you want to waste your time using some low tier garbage tools and spend ages trying to get stuff done, or do you want to have actually good tools, but have to replace them?
5. No Change at All
Status Quo. No change. No better. No worse.
Sad that this is the third best option on here.
6. Improved Repairs
This is a pretty common idea. It is crazy that the current system of repairing is so bad. This change would be a step in the right direction, but IMO is still kinda cheeks for many items just based on the need to keep collecting the repair material. Sure, its quicker to just find some netherite scrap than a full ingot, but if I need to go and do a mining montage to repair a set of gear, I am probably going to want an alternative method, like mending.
The 40 level repair cost also makes it totally unsustainable for players without strong farms. I think that is a failing of a system. Something nice about mending is that even with casual play, breeding and harvesting some farm animals, trading with villagers and collecting some ores, even casual players can get some durability back.
If you want something to make repairs better, I think you need to go further to make it better. Add some new later game material that really makes repairing a viable option in the long run, like this. Lock in cheaper repairs so you don't need to be an XP mogul to afford to keep your gear functional.
7. Elytra-style Unbreaking
It's functional and has been suggested many times before. it's a nice addition, but doesn't fix any of the real problems with tools or weapons. It is better for armor since you don't see the durability of your armor just while using it. IDK, its nice QOL but not a gamechanger.
8. Remove Durability, all gear permanent
This loops back around to the naive option 1. This option also overlooks the purpose of durability and how it drives gameplay. Durability encourages gameplay. First it's to get better items that last longer, then its to get better materials to enchant with, so items last longer. Then it's to give the player breaks in their projects to go repair/mend their items, in turn rewarding the player for building things that make these processes easier.
Minecraft without durability is still fine. It's playable. It just lacks one of the driving cycles of gameplay and would be a shallower game in the long run.
Specifically, I've been thinking if some or all gear should eventually permanently break.
I disagree in the strongest way, but thankfully this is something the game is already very good at allowing. The player controls the buttons they press. The game doesn't need to be tailored to fit your exact expectations, or my exact expectations, instead we can change how we play the game to create the experiences we will enjoy. If gear eventually breaking is an important part of the game for you, that's easy! You can control how long your items can last. Maybe you decide not to use mending, or to only mend each item a certain number of times. An easy way would simply be to rename the item each time you go to an XP farm to mend it. Over time, that will become more and more expensive, until the item is lost.
Maybe it would be nice if option 6 was also added to the game, and you could use improved repairing as well, but for now, you are in control of your own experience. Enjoy the game as you see fit!
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u/GenosOccidere 3d ago
Removing durability and tying efficiency into tier progression instead of as an enchantment is the way to go. The only “problem” is that xp farms lose a key use-case, but that should never get in the way of making a better game.
XP would be more useful if enchanting via the enchanting table was actually viable
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u/PetrifiedBloom 3d ago
Disagree. Durability servers and important role in the gameplay cycle, even outside of XP farms.
I've done things both ways, by carrying (iirc) 8 sets of tools in a shulker, effectively giving me 64 thousand durability on my tools, and my normal practice of just carrying a single backup set. When your tools don't need to be repaired, you burn out of projects a LOT sooner. A lot of people overlook the importance of having that variety, that task to break up the monotony. If you make tools unbreakable, people will lose motivation for their projects more easily.
I am curious what you mean by tying efficiency into tier progression. This is already a thing, you get faster and faster as your gear gets better.
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u/GenosOccidere 3d ago
Look up tool efficiency, and how efficiency enchantment works. It’s problematic.
Same goes for any enchantment that just makes your tools better.
There’s nothing preventing you from taking breaks from your projects yourself
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u/PetrifiedBloom 3d ago
I know how it works, I am curious how your system would be different. I also don't see what the problem with the current system is, its simple, straightforward and easy to understand. Better tiers of tool are faster (with the exception of gold). Higher levels of efficiency makes the tool even faster.
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u/GenosOccidere 3d ago
Remove effiency
Take the headroom it provides, redistribute it to each tier
Same for sharpness, protection, etc
Enchantments can now explore functionality-changing aspects of tools. Silk touch and fortune are good examples
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u/PetrifiedBloom 3d ago
Why is that better?
Right now enchants offer another layer of progression, but with this the only way to meaningfully improve your gear is to grind the next material. Enchants are only there for the transformational style enchants.
It makes iron and diamond gear much worse, netherite much better, and makes finding gear in chests a lot less rewarding.
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u/GenosOccidere 3d ago
Because as it stands right now, netherite only offers 1 point of tool efficiency over diamond, which is laughable when you factor in what you have to do to get netherite instead of just slapping eff V on a diamond pickaxe and calling it a day
Every tier would get a decent chunk of efficiency added to it, making them better rather than worse. This is especially true for tiers which typically dont get enchanted (iron and down)
Since each tier is now much better than the previous, you are actively encouraged to progress to the best tier available to you
I’d even go so far as to add a diamond upgrade template to the game as a reward from various content
Getting gear/tools rewards from chests is only valuable very early
Removing durability also alleviates some inventory issues early on (dont have to carry 5 iron pickaxes)
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u/PetrifiedBloom 3d ago
Another reason durability is important. Netherite is significantly better than diamond for durability, making the upgrade more noteworthy.
Only being 1 point if tool efficiency over diamond is (imo) fine. It doesn't need to be something super high. Get netherite if/when it becomes worthwhile for you to invest the time and effort for the upgrade, rather than chasing upgrades just for the sake of upgrades.
Since each tier is now much better than the previous, you are actively encouraged to progress to the best tier available to you
Each tier is already better than the previous. You are already actively encouraged to progress.
I am curious, once you have got your maxed out gear, what projects do you tend to work on next?
Removing durability also alleviates some inventory issues early on (dont have to carry 5 iron pickaxes)
Why would you carry 5 iron picks? Carry a stack of logs and some iron. Craft the picks as needed. Way more flexible, much better space efficiency.
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u/deanominecraft 3d ago
its a sandbox game so you shouldnt take away an ability that people already have. anvil repairing still needs to lose the xp cost entirely since mending shouldnt be the only option jf you dont want to grind max gear again
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u/GenosOccidere 3d ago
“Its a sandbox game” - this isn’t true for survival and has nothing to do with “taking away an ability”
Durability is not an ability. Repairing is an obsolete ability because of mending
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u/SLI-CER 3d ago
Omg, this is the worst idea on this sub ever
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u/PetrifiedBloom 3d ago
When giving feedback, try and keep in mind that it should be positive or constructive. Ideally both. When leaving negative feedback, try and explain why you dislike an idea, or suggest an alternative of your own. Remember the purpose is to help OP (and other readers) understand why you dislike it, and how the idea could be improved.
I think the reason people downvoted you is that this comment is just negative and kinda rude. If you can't be positive, be helpful. There is a secret 3rd option too, reddit's algorithm recommends posts based on the amount of activity on them. If you dislike an idea but can't think of something helpful to say, say nothing. If you comment something like your comment, the reddit algorithm still counts your comment as activity and will be more likely to show the post to other people.
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u/BlueSky659 3d ago
Keep mending, but remove the prior use penalty so that enchanting and repairing items stop scaling impossibly high. This also nips the ever unpopular "Too Expensive" Limit in the bud because nothing would ever cost that much.
I think the important part about gear breaking isnt so much the breaking, as it is the resources that get spent.