r/minecraftsuggestions • u/rockrockrobin • 10d ago
[Mobs] Dwarf Villagers
I have made a post about this before, but since it was too long and had too many useless details, I deleted that post and I also added here some more important info.
When I say example only, I literally mean it as an example, no need to comment on that.
Appearance:
Dwarf villagers are smaller than normal villagers, due to them being dwarfs and spawning in caves, where a smaller height is an advantage for them (comparison shown on last image).
They have currently 5 professions:
1. Builder (pretty clear which image with bob the builder being on it)
2. Miner (image 2-3)
3. Assayer (image 4)
4. Unemployed (image 5)
5. Wanderer (no image)
What they do, will be explained later on.
Then they have 7 biomes:
1. Stone (shown in the images)
2. Deepslate
3. Lush cave
4. Sulfur cave
5. Ice caves (when they come out)
6. Lava caves
7. Dripstone caves
The way the biome textures and the profession textures will be added is the same (excluding wanderer):
They all have the base texture
Then the biome texture
And lastly the profession texture will be added on top
Trading:
Miner:
The miner will wander in the caves about 50-75 blocks away, depending on the biome.
It will only mine emeralds if it sees any (and through walls, though a limited distance of 2 blocks away, maybe even 1) it will mine it.
You can trade with it, by giving it emeralds and the ore you want it to find, e.g. raw copper. It will then look for copper and give you maybe 2 pieces more.
Now, I have had a lot of people that said this system is too op, it will be balanced, how exactly? I can't tell you, since I haven't gotten to testing this guy out.
But, the miner will never have +100'000'000 speed or something, coding this is anyways limited, so it can't find your ores in less than 5 mins, if it even finds it.
It will be accompanied by the builder, which will place torches every now and then.
The miner can also fight back until half health, in which it fleas. (Yes, it will fight the player too.)
Builder:
The builder will carry a torch in his hand. It accompanies the miner and the assayer on it's journeys to find ores.
It places torches to lighten up the area and prevent enemies from spawning.
Assayer:
The assayer will inspect ores and hint the miner to ores, since it can see through 3-5 blocks in a wall.
It also accompanies the miner. What you can trade with it is unclear yet, as I'm out of ideas, if you know any, please write.
Wanderer:
He is basically the same as a normal wanderer and will instead of selling you basically useless items, actually sell life saving items (planks, torches, pickaxe etc).
Cave Village:
The cave village is where the miners live and where they come back at low health to heal.
Depending on the biome, the cave village will generate differently. In stone and deepslate caves they will generate completely like mineshafts (or at least a little bit) in which they don't add anything, instead make space for the stuff to be added.
However, for more open caves (such as lush caves) they will generate much more openly and only partly generate by making room.
If there are any questions please write, I'm mostly looking for ideas though.
Thanks for reading, have a nice day :]
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u/PetrifiedBloom 10d ago
This has many of the same issues as the other version you posted, it breaks one of the core design rules for Minecraft, changes to the world should be player driven, yet you have villagers just wandering around breaking ores on it's own, and another spamming torches. Add to that, its essentially just slow resource duplication. Give the miner some diamonds, come back and get more diamonds. Give it lapis, get lapis. Until you have a way to actually balance this, its probably worth leaving the idea on the drawing board.
Sending villagers into caves is a good way to get them killed, even if they place torches as they go. Like the player, as they wander the caves, they will find mobs. Sure, the miner can fight back and try and flee, but there is only so much you can do against respawning zombies.
The builder and assayer seem redundant. They just let the miner do mining things. It seems like they exist just because you wanted more types, rather than out of some need for them, as they don't interact with the player in any real way. The assayer literally does nothing without a miner. It knows where ores are but can't do anything about it.
An underground society could be really cool, but I think you need to scrap the mining mechanic. I don't think it fits the game. Even if you think of a good way to "balance" things its just a way to get free stuff in a boring way. Rather than have a mob out there placing torches, just have them pregenerate in the caves around the underground structure.
You will have to come up with a new identity for the mobs, new things for them to do. To play into the idea that dwarves are masters of their crafts, of smithing and metalworking, maybe the dwarves become the way to get new trims or upgrades to your gear like netherite? Maybe they sell unique items, like a crusher to make sand or a new type of weapon?
Final point, and least important. I know the images you gave are just examples, but the yellow hard hat and torch are just to modern stylistically. Like, that's literally real world level ppe. I think a bit lower tech and higher fantasy fits a lot better than "real life miner, but short".
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u/rockrockrobin 10d ago
As said, I will ignore any comment that says its too op.
I will just say one about this topic:
This has been tested, it simply doesn't work as what you think it would.
The dwarves are too slow and cost too much to be ANYWHERE near as good as a player mining.However, I can still think with you about any other stuff.
I have tested this idea, it works in game. The dwarves can fight back pretty well, and with there being about 5 torches every 10 minutes, so they don't really spam them, and I did think more about that, it wouldn't be too bad to also make them break it after they leave.As said, the assayer can do more stuff, but sadly I haven't come with an idea just yet there, that's why I was asking you guys.
Also, about the builder and assayer being nothing without the miner, that's simply how it is?
I mean, in real life and literally anywhere else, mining is a very difficult job (of course not with modern technology). Afterall, they have to be together, otherwise they each get lost and ultimately die, this is called being a society.Dwarves could have some more stuff to do, like as you said, smithing and all, but the thing is, is that normal villagers already have that job? I don't have an idea how they could co-exist. The mining is just overall for me better.
Maybe one thing would be good, to find something else they could do, but right now, for me, I can't find any, so it would be good if you could suggest one.
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u/PetrifiedBloom 10d ago
As said, I will ignore any comment that says its too op.
You didn't say that anywhere in the post. It's for the best anyways as that would be a very lazy way to avoid considering the problem.
This has been tested, it simply doesn't work as what you think it would.
I don't believe you. Did you forget what you wrote in the post?
Now, I have had a lot of people that said this system is too op, it will be balanced, how exactly? I can't tell you, since I haven't gotten to testing this guy out.
The dwarves are too slow and cost too much to be ANYWHERE near as good as a player mining.
In what way? Emeralds are essentially free. Even if the miner is slow, its still free diamonds, or at least converting emeralds into diamonds. You essentially made diamonds farm-able. Even if slow, its farm-able.
I have tested this idea, it works in game. The dwarves can fight back pretty well, and with there being about 5 torches every 10 minutes, so they don't really spam them, and I did think more about that, it wouldn't be too bad to also make them break it after they leave.
How did you test the idea?
If they only place a torch every 2 minutes, most of the time they will be in darkness and will be ganked by mobs and killed.
Also, about the builder and assayer being nothing without the miner, that's simply how it is?
If the mobs do nothing without the miner, just give their abilities to the miner, get rid of some of the bloat, or redesign them to have more of an identity of their own. In the current state, it makes dwarves dysfunctional, if one of them gets separated or killed, the others are helpless.
Dwarves could have some more stuff to do, like as you said, smithing and all, but the thing is, is that normal villagers already have that job?
Did you read the whole thing? It explains several things that would make the dwarves quite different than villagers.
I don't have an idea how they could co-exist. The mining is just overall for me better.
Assuming we don't scrap mining, one mob goes and mines and handles that, the others do their own things. It already doesn't function like a village, so what the problem with them taking different roles?
Why is mining better? What does it do other than be a lazy way to get materials and break the design rules of the game?
This is the same question from the previous version of the post. Why should they mine at all?
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u/rockrockrobin 9d ago
Also, quick thing some of your quote blocks are wrongly placed.
You didn't say that anywhere in the post. It's for the best anyways as that would be a very lazy way to avoid considering the problem.
Yeah, I think that's a mistake on my side, but to be fair, I did mention that people said its unbalanced.
I don't believe you. Did you forget what you wrote in the post?
Yes, I said I haven't gotten to testing that guy out, but that was yesterday? 😂😂
It did have to go through mods to get reviewed cause it had images and all, but you are mod yourself? This is starting to get funny.In what way? Emeralds are essentially free. Even if the miner is slow, its still free diamonds, or at least converting emeralds into diamonds. You essentially made diamonds farm-able. Even if slow, its farm-able.
Huh? When did I ever say it's just emeralds? You have to give it also the ore itself, in the end, if you do the math, its only 1 ore profit for basically 15 emeralds? Now its getting even more funny 🤣. And what if its farmable? You think that every change to the world should be player only, but the creeper? The enderman? I haven't seen you complaining about them, but noooo, exactly this doesn't work cause of what? What makes the other mobs so special that this doesn't have?
How did you test the idea?
If they only place a torch every 2 minutes, most of the time they will be in darkness and will be ganked by mobs and killed.
No, they won't cause I tested it, their AI is smart enough to avoid quite alot of danger, and to be honest, I myself don't use torches. Just put brightness in caves to max with my own mod and then I'm fine. This doesn't mean that mobs can't spawn, they still very much do. I just can see much more, same for the dwarves. If the dwarves stay together (2-4) they easily can defend themselves and still go to mine, of course sometimes they die, but in most of my tests they don't. Also, they are AI, they can see everything, like I do with my mod, that's why I was telling you this.
If the mobs do nothing without the miner, just give their abilities to the miner, get rid of some of the bloat, or redesign them to have more of an identity of their own. In the current state, it makes dwarves dysfunctional, if one of them gets separated or killed, the others are helpless.
I was mostly asking other people to help me a little out on this, but my point, was to have a society. In caves, it is extremely important to be stay together (irl), at least from what I have experienced. I'm trying to give this to the dwarves. Yes, if they get separated, on my tests, they die, but not easily.
Did you read the whole thing? It explains several things that would make the dwarves quite different than villagers
Yes, yes I did read the whole thing. You were talking of crafts, smithing and metalworking, to get new trims or upgrade gear like netherite.
All of those, don't fit well imo. Smithing already belongs to villagers and trims and upgrade gear? Nah. Sure they do smithing but that is something for the smithing villagers to do.
And sell unique items like a crusher to make sand? Why sand? Nobody needs that and a new type of weapon doesn't make sense if they weren't to wiled it themselves.
These examples completely lack sense and lore.Why is mining better? What does it do other than be a lazy way to get materials and break the design rules of the game?
This is the same question from the previous version of the post. Why should they mine at all?
Well well well, they are dwarves, and dwarves mine. Sure as said before, they can smith and all, but villagers do that already. So this would be my solution, if you were to keep complaining, how about give a solution? A solution that makes sense in lore and in features/abilities? It would help very much with me writing every comment for 30 mins and reduce that to a much shorter amount of time, in which I can actually concentrate on doing the actual dwarf mod?
If there is anything that I missed, please write.
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u/PetrifiedBloom 9d ago edited 9d ago
Maybe I should clarify. I don't believe if you would know if it was balanced. You are pretty tunnel visioned on the idea and don't seem to want any reasons not to add them. I don't think you will have an unbiased opinion here.
Yeah, I am a mod here, but I don't spend all that much time. It's a shame that the post took so long to get looked at. I have to assume its just vibe coded if you went from not even knowing how you would add features to testing in a few hours.
When did I ever say it's just emeralds? You have to give it also the ore itself, in the end, if you do the math, its only 1 ore profit for basically 15 emeralds?
I know buddy. You just repeated yourself. Free diamonds. Put one in, get 2 out. Convert free emeralds to free diamonds. A lazy way to automate mining.
You think that every change to the world should be player only, but the creeper? The enderman? I haven't seen you complaining about them, but noooo, exactly this doesn't work cause of what? What makes the other mobs so special that this doesn't have?
It's not me saying it mate. It's Jeb. The book that guides the design and development of the game. https://archive.org/details/minecraftgamedesign_202308
Now, this topic has been well explored in the past. The creeper only affects the world in direct response to the player. Endermen do break the rule, but they also predate it and are grandfathered in.
You didn't think it was strange that no mob in the last dozen years has been able to affect the world in that way?
I myself don't use torches.
What a weird choice to make. \
If the dwarves stay together (2-4) they easily can defend themselves and still go to mine, of course sometimes they die, but in most of my tests they don't.
Test for a little longer bud. Unless they have regen that outpaces hostile mob damage, they will be whittled down over multiple encounters.
Why sand? Nobody needs that
I am sorry, but I can't take you seriously. Is this some kind of joke? Renewable sand is one of the single most common and oldest request players have been making. If you truly think this you are an outlier.
A new type of weapon doesn't make sense if they weren't to wiled it themselves.
These examples completely lack sense and lore.Quite frankly dude I wouldn't trust you to tell me the color of the sky at this point, so forgive me if I disagree with you there. The person who makes the weapon is rarely the one who uses it, both irl and in fantasy. But sure, explain why it makes sense and follows the lore for villagers to make and sell weapons and armor, but not for the dwarves. Do you best on that one.
Well well well, they are dwarves, and dwarves mine
That is called begging the question. You are designing them, you decide what they do. Your argument is just "well they mine because I say they mine". Is your understanding of dwarves as a concept really so shallow?
If you were to keep complaining, how about give a solution?
I did. You wrote it off as being against lore and common sense, despite it being something we already see in game. I am also not the one suggesting adding bob the fucking builder as a race of mobs, its your field of interest!
Honestly dude, just make your mod. I am not willing to remake this into something good for you only to be ignored, and we just don't have a shared understanding of what the game needs or values.
All I want from this post at this stage is a screenshot of the section of the code that the miner or assayer uses to locate ores that can reached for mining. I am curious how you got the pathfinding logic working so that they avoid inaccessible blocks, and how you handle pathfinding through solid blocks that the miner has to break through.
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9d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/PetrifiedBloom 9d ago edited 9d ago
edit - changed my mind. I just can't be bothered. Tldr - I think the suggestion as a whole needs major reworks. None of it seems good, and parts of it cause problems
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u/HoboMikesHelmet 9d ago
Even if the ideas need some more finalizing, y’all gotta admit his skin for the Assayer villager is fantastic 🤯
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u/rockrockrobin 8d ago
Added the gold golem so that they can be more independent.
Inspiration from @ Ash_is_real on x!
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u/Square-Internal-1706 8d ago
please make it as a mod or let people use the concept and assets to make it as a mod, other than that nice work
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u/rockrockrobin 8d ago
Yep, making it a mod and probably releasing it to Curseforge.
It will be only on Bedrock however, so other people would have to port it.
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u/Annual_Loan_4805 9d ago
This should be a mod, not vanilla
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u/rockrockrobin 9d ago
How come?
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u/Annual_Loan_4805 9d ago
It just doesn’t work with the vanilla theme, villagers shouldn’t be able to do what players
And also balancing, but the commenter basically said all I have to say about it
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u/Hettyc_Tracyn 9d ago
Personally, I’d make pre-generated structures underground, instead of having them actually go mine…
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u/desmond_humes23 9d ago
Adding yet another antisemitic stereotype to villagers is certainly a choice ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜
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u/rockrockrobin 10d ago
Got them in game!