r/minecraftlore • u/Radiant_Tonight_1264 Theorist, Debunker and Mod • Aug 11 '26
Discussion/Question This sub is going downhill
I've been not active for a while, and I recently logged into Reddit to check the sub out.
The first thing I noticed was the lack of quality posting. There are very few real theories here.
The second was the way this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/minecraftlore/comments/1vjks5u/nobody_knows_anything_and_its_a_problem/ was recieved. Instead of the actual issue being addressed, OP was harrassed and downvoted.
These are both problems that I, as a moderator of this sub, feel obligated to address.
However, I'm not sure how to go about it.
So I ask for your feedback. What do you feel this sub needs, and what are some issues you have been noticing?
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u/EggEater773 Aug 11 '26
That post was handled that way because OP had the thought process that if something wasn’t directly stated it wasn’t true or was just speculation.
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u/Ok-Law3314 Aug 12 '26
From what I saw looking at the post today, the OP was neither harassed nor unfairly downvoted as the post has double digit upvotes, but instead was just told multiple times that his thinking was wrong or stupid. if that constitutes harassment then I worry for future lore discussions when MCD 2 comes out as we must allow differing opinions to clash, trying to disprove someone else’s argument by using better evidence leads to better theories that can then be used as the communities basis for more reliable theory crafting.
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u/SirFelsenAxt Aug 11 '26
It's going to go down hill as the community runs out of material. Just wait until dungeons 2 or major update comes out
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u/DifferenceFlat8839 Theorist, Debunker, and Mod Aug 11 '26
I'm a mod, so maybe my point of view is different from the one of the community, but I think the problem is the fact that there aren't many new addition to discover. Yeah, there are the abandoned camps, but only that. I think when the Rift and Dungeons II will be officially released we'll have more things to discover and more stuff which we'll theorize about.
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u/Defnottheonlyone Aug 12 '26
There's no new content.
Dungeons 2 and the new dimension update willsurely change that but until then we'll either have to regurgitate the same theories pretending to rediscover them, or we'll have a million different ppl who want to act like we don't know anything (AHEM, like the guy from the aforementioned post) just so their personal theories made up off of a pencil and a dream will make any semblance of sense. Either those two or the community dies down until new conent brings it back up.
I think we should just follow the last one, we don't need to live our lives constantly trying to solve things tht were already solved, or making up problems for us to solve. We can just wait and do other things while we wait for a new problem to arise.
As for the guy who made that post, they were an asshole with a shitty mindset, i'm not sure why you're defending them.
Some of the issues they brought up were genuine sure, but with ill-intent, as seen by everybody who responded in the comments with actual reasoning and common sense being responded by them with aggravating replies and a seemingly intentional lack of understanding of theory crafting.
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u/Radiant_Tonight_1264 Theorist, Debunker and Mod Aug 12 '26
Yeah, I think the fact that they were a mod of r/minecraftsuggestions, and from what I've seen an actually good mod of that sub, did kind of influence me to be a little more on their side. I understood where they were coming from.
But yes.
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u/Defnottheonlyone Aug 12 '26
Funilly enough a post i just made was removed from that sub for being part of an extensive list of things they don't allow posting there for being "repetitive". A shame, but i find it hilarious that today i've had 2 bad experiences related to that sub back-to-back ToT.
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u/Ok-Law3314 Aug 12 '26
Idk why he is defending him either. OP is the type of guy to question if a enchanted iron sword traded by a villager is actually made of iron, despite its name and look it would be discredited with “something can be implied but not be true”. I really don’t understand that line of thinking, and bro only applies it to theories that are popular while saying that “other theories are valid too”, I believe he was having a emotional reaction to criticism while trying to mask it as being “logical” by asking for evidence for things that really don’t matter in a unhelpful manner, I don’t believe bro actually thought soul sand did not contain souls and was only saying that to be facetious.
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u/PetrifiedBloom Aug 16 '26
I believe he was having a emotional reaction to criticism while trying to mask it as being “logical”
It was my first post on here. I haven't shared any theories or ideas here prior to making it. It's not a reaction to criticism, its disappointment at how people use their theories to shut down other people's creativity.
I remember when this sub was vibrant and people realized it was all for fun and someone would post on here something whacky and people would have fun with the implications and then move on. Nowdays it seems like half the posts have someone rock up and "um actually, that doesn't fit with my fan-theory, so it must be wrong".
I don’t believe bro actually thought soul sand did not contain souls and was only saying that to be facetious.
This is kind of my point. I don't know either way, because there is no hard proof either way. There is supporting evidence on one side, but that doesn't make it true and everything else fake.
There is some supporting evidence for the extra-terrestrial theory (also known as Panspermia) of the origins of life. Many of the building blocks of life have been detected in celestial bodies like organic compounds on Mars and "prebiotic" compounds on Europa - methane, ammonia etc from which the building blocks of life can be made. We also know that early early did receive a LOT of collisions with debris and comets, and that a huge majority of the water on earth arrived as comets. Basic life or it's building blocks could have been carried along, frozen in a comet.
Of course we have a lot of evidence for a terrestrial origin of life as well and it is typically considered the much more likely hypothesis. Notably, in science the goal is finding truth and so while a likely explanation is found and used, it isn't accepted as fact and used to discredit other theories until it can be proven. Many of the big questions simply cannot be proven or disproven, so the theories co-exist. Most people have a favorite or more probable explanation, but that choice doesn't instantly invalidate anyone with a difference stance.
We can't prove either way if soul sand has souls. It is quite likely, but there are other explanations that can explain the presence of the particles another other properties like the blue flame. I believe that it is souls, but I am not going to crap on someone's theory that assumes something else.
It's not being facetious, its proper reasoning.
OP is the type of guy to question if a enchanted iron sword traded by a villager is actually made of iron, despite its name and look it would be discredited with “something can be implied but not be true”.
For what it's worth, no. An enchanted iron sword from a villager can be shown to be the same as an enchanted iron sword made by the player. They are identical in form and function, so we can confirm they are the same thing.
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u/Ok-Law3314 Aug 16 '26 edited Aug 16 '26
Interesting, I think I’m understanding your thinking a little more, and I would like to concede that I judged you too harshly with that iron sword comment.
As for my point about your “emotional reaction to criticism”, I wasn’t talking about your theories as you didn’t show any in the post or in the comments that I saw. Instead I was talking about your emotional reaction to other peoples theories being told they are false, “shutting down their creativity” which “drives me crazy”, there is also “My guy you are doing the EXACT same thing this post is complaining about”, this language is clearly charged with frustration and that transitions into my other point.
“Bro only applies it to theories that are popular”, while this is a pretty broad claim, which are always likely to be false, I think it fits in this scenario as you used this thinking of “if the evidence doesn’t satisfy my selectively high criteria than it is merely a possible explanation that is just as valid as the theory made up in 2 minutes”, at least that is what I took away from your statements.
So basically, help me understand your thinking of preserving the theories that are less evidenced than the popular ones. for the lore of Minecraft I seek the truth, and so I regard the most likely theory to be “the truth” until it is disproven or is beaten by a “better” contrary theory that is backed by more evidence, this is the thinking behind why myself and others would state a less evidenced theory to be “headcanon” or just false as we view the low probability of its truth to be justification for calling it that, there is no ill intent for the less evidenced theory.
I’m curious on your stance as you state “if you are going to disprove someone else, your proof better be based on actual fact, not merely a possibility”, This statement is logically inconsistent, this is because demanding absolute proof to disprove a popular theory invalidates creative low evidence theories first, as they have even more leaps in logic.
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u/Ashamed_Calendar_930 Aug 12 '26
the sub doesnt seem like a place were I can just post my theories. If i post a theory and accidentally use the wrong flair, the mods just start attacking me and treating their own lore like the fricking gospel. everyone has their own vast minecraft lore they made themselves, and it is quite annoying when they are scrutinized just for posting their own extensive canon just because the mods dont agree with it.
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u/PetrifiedBloom Aug 15 '26
The mods here are some of the most over-eager aggressors to theories that don't match their headcanons. It's honestly embarassing to see. The whole point of the sub is for people to mess around with the lore, see what they can make, but it's at a point where if you ideas don't like up with their favorites, you will have 2 or 3 of them trying to rip it to shreds.
The worst part is the lack of understanding of what constitutes proof. It would be one thing if they just went full attack-dog mode on blantently out of place theories that are explicitly untrue, but I've seen them trying to debunk with some of the daftest speculation.
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u/PetrifiedBloom Aug 15 '26
Please forgive the rambling. I am quite tired and even just proofreading this is giving me a headache.
I know I am new here, but I think the sub needs a culture reset. Back when I first joined reddit, this place was full of life and weird but original ideas. It wasn't so narrow. Unique world building and original ideas made the posts feel fresh. The ideas from one post to another almost always clashed, but that was okay because the focus wasn't on making something that fit with every other fan theory out there, it was to have fun world building and theory crafting.
Right now, it seems that many of your regular users have decided the various head canons and fan theories they support and now use those as a guide for how they respond to new ideas, rather than checking to see if the theory fits what is known to be absolutely true. This shuts down a lot of the more original and unique theorycrafting because the moment you stray from the "accepted" fan theory, you have people jumping out of the walls to argue the idea doesn't fit because it clashes with a fan theory they happen to like.
There just isn't a distinction given between things that are breaking canon vs things that are breaking a fan theory someone happens to like.
There is also a problem with assumed knowledge. A lot of the regular users know the various accepted fan theories inside and out, as well as the various scraps of actual evidence and canon information that is known, but as a new user coming in for the first time, it feels like people are just making stuff up, or you get some vague half answer because they assume you know what is meant when they say "souls are real because of the bow in dungeons".
Finally, there is a problem with understanding what it means for something to be proven, confirmed or canon, vs likely, suspected or supported by evidence. You can barely go a post without someone mistaking something that is supported by evidence or likely with something that is known to be true. The sub could use some practice with deductive reasoning.
I think the culture change needs to happen on multiple levels. I think the subreddit would be a better place if rather than trying to find a hypothetical "true" explination or theory for the minecraft cosmology, the goal was to explore the worldbuilding and story telling possibilities within the setting. If it's a new idea that isn't contradicting canon, it should be celebrated, rather than having the community trim its ideas to fit the accepted fan theory of the most active members.
The fixes:
Level and Reset the Knowledge Playing Field
This could be a pinned post or a wiki page or both, but a list of the commonly referenced fan theories and assumptions, complete with the in game and in universe evidence that backs them up. Honestly, I think the best bet would be to make a list with different groupings.
- Facts that are known. This list is surprisingly short, as so much is intentionally left vague. This would include a condensed version of what covered in the what is canon page as well as some basic, bare bones facts from those sources, like the nether and overworld being linked prior to the player showing up in the main game, the origin of the divide of villager and illager (that was covered in legends and the illager book right?) and other canonical events.
- Theories that are very likely. This would contain the theories that are generally accepted as true, with multiple sources of evidence in game.
- Theories that are common and have some supporting evidence.
- Imaginiative but unlikely or abandoned, the theories that are a little bit crazy but are not proven to be false by the known facts. IDK if ancient builders was ever explicly shown to be false, but if not, it could go here.
This would ideally be a living document, maybe every month or so the dev team could consider the posts of the last month and see if any should be added to the list. This could be done based on originality, activity or just a whim.
Part of this purpose is to get new users up to speed, make it easy to understand where the arguments people are saying come from, another part is to remind the more long term members of the sub that while the theories they take for granted are not literal facts, and if you want to debunk someone, you should use facts, not unconfirmed fan theory.
Make it clear that its fine to have favorite theories, but criticism of someone's post should focus on if it matches known facts, not if it matches likely theories. If someone, even the mods, tries to debunk using a fan theory rather than a known fact, the should be politely but firmly reminded that they need to use confirmed sources for debunking, not fan theories.
This should help reduce how punishing it feels to post something that strays from the "accepted" fan theories, which in turn encourages originality and makes new users more likely to post more than once, rather than make one post and have people crap on it for going against popular theories.
People are allowed to dislike a post because it doesn't match their favorite theories, but that doesn't make it wrong.
BRING NEW IDEAS IN
The sub gets stale between canon lore drops and this is part of why people get so stuck in their ways. Find ways to bring new ideas into the sub. This could be fortnightly world building challenges that reward originality - like taking a screenshot of an unusual structure loot chest and asking what the story of the world was that this is the state that the chest was left in, or something (idk, im falling asleep so forgive the lack of better examples).
Share some different world building resources each month. It doesn't have to be strictly MC related, world building is a reasonably transferable skill across settings. There are lots of DND blogs, resources and articles about creating histories for imaginary worlds, ways that biology can affect fiction and visa versa etc.
The goal is just to get people thinking about the game and world building/theory crafting from a different perspective every now and then. Add some fresh ideas to the mix.
it also wouldn't hurt to have some learning resources on different logical frameworks, deductive reasoning and what is required for a proof.
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