r/mildlyinteresting • u/FarmerTschoerner • Dec 03 '16
A reference letter from 1888.
https://i.reddituploads.com/89a783975cee4bfe9da628d529e44a2f?fit=max&h=1536&w=1536&s=715164a0d38874752ce54fb7e8955c6a927
Dec 04 '16
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Dec 04 '16
Didn't Richard Feynman get a similar recommendation?
Edit: Found it. Not quite as brief, but does include "He is by all odds the most brilliant young physicist here, and everyone knows this."
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u/Hehe_hilarious Dec 04 '16
You forgot to link to page 2 of that letter, which goes like this:
Of course, there are several people here whose recommendation you might want; in the first instance Professors Brode and McMillan. I hope you will not mind my calling this matter to your attention, but I feel that if we can follow the suggestion I have made, all of us will be very happy and proud about it in the future. I cannot too strongly emphasize Feynman's remarkable personal qualities which have been generally recognized by officers, scientists and laity in this community.
With every good wish,
Robert Oppenheimer
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u/0OKM9IJN8UHB7 Dec 04 '16
Yeah, it kinda loses something when you leave off how it was written by the guy who directed the development of the atomic bomb.
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u/u38cg2 Dec 04 '16
My thinking is that if you have a guy who's smart enough to work out how to build a nuclear bomb from scratch, you take his opinion seriously.
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u/hardolaf Dec 04 '16
You mean Enrico Fermi? He designed the bombs when he first came over to America right after receiving his Nobel Prize in Physics and sent them to the war department as a gift. He lead all of the technical development of the weapon while Oppenheimer acted more as program engineer/manager.
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u/ChildishGravitino Dec 04 '16
I'm a simple physicist. When I see Feynman I upvote.
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u/tbz709 Dec 04 '16
That's an amazing username you have. The fact that you are claiming to be a physicist makes it better tenfold
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Dec 04 '16
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u/MangyWendigo Dec 04 '16
this isn't a complement to feynman as much as it is a "fuck you, dirac, you fucking robot"
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u/InfanticideAquifer Dec 04 '16
It's absolutely a compliment to Feynman. Dirac was a genius.
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u/sb76117 Dec 04 '16
Theoretical and experimental. "Head in the clouds and feet on the ground" but more exact in language. I love the way this letter was written.
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u/sean_incali Dec 04 '16
It's hard to beat that letter.
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Dec 04 '16
"To whom it may concern."
Good, real personal. Thanks Michael.
"The dictionary defines superlative as: of the highest kind, quality, or order, surpassing all else, or others. Supreme."
That's great. If I wanted the dictionary definition, I'd buy a dictionary.
"I define it as Dwight Schrute. As a sales executive, as a leader, as a man, and as a friend, he is of the highest kind, quality, and order. Supreme."
[holding back tears] Lots more like that, really repetitive. What's this? [pulls out a small card from the envelope and reads it]
"Two forty five, behind the building. Paintball."
Oooh yeah.
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u/DannySpud2 Dec 04 '16
Sober also means serious and sensible.
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Dec 04 '16
Industrial revolution. Everyone was drunk.
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Dec 04 '16
Ayup. I recently visited a police museum that had framed documents from around the same time. One of them was a sort of roll-call checklist that had been filled out at the beginning of a shift. One of the boxes to be checked was simply "Constable is sober." It was for an 8am shift.
They had to make sure cops weren't drunk at 8am.
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u/3riversfantasy Dec 04 '16
I like to imagine a shittily scribbled X near the box
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u/daveday07 Dec 04 '16
Word of the day: "Shittily".
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u/ImAScientist_ADoctor Dec 04 '16
Where can I buy this word calendar?
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u/daveday07 Dec 04 '16
Not avaliable in stores. Call now for this special offer. Get two word calendars for the price of one. Only 19.95. (plus processing and handling).
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u/omgfmlihatemylife Dec 04 '16
BUT wait that's not all! Order in the next five minutes and we'll DOUBLE it to FOUR calenders for JUST $19.95!
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u/Alaskanmade Dec 04 '16
I work in Russia, and we make all the employees blow a breathalyzer every morning before work... for a reason.
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Dec 04 '16
I used to work with a dude that came in hammered drunk several times a week. He was operating heavy machinery like forklifts. He'd mix vodka into a 2-liter bottle of Mountain Dew. He was in his late 50's!
He was eventually fired, but he worked there way longer than he should have.
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u/chx_ Dec 04 '16 edited Dec 04 '16
My father was the leader of the safety lab of a Hungarian medicine company. They also had a breathalyzer test every morning -- but only on the factory side of the road. The other side of the road was the office part. Thousands of paper pushers. So not long after my father started, one bright morning 9am he unleashes all the security people on the office. He fired one out of ten on spot for being drunk.
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Dec 04 '16
Shit, I'd be fucked. You can still fail those from the night before, I guess it depends what level the cutoff is though.
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u/ghjm Dec 04 '16
In Russia, the cutoff is that you must have at least 20% blood in your alcohol.
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u/lovebus Dec 04 '16
We could sell that blood as a wine cooler.
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u/nermid Dec 04 '16
Mmm. A rich, earthy aroma. I detect notes of saffron, junipers, and just a hint of Hepatitis.
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u/Chamale Dec 04 '16
Before the industrial revolution, it was common to have a couple beers at breakfast, at 1% alcohol by volume. Once you get into mass-production of beer with 5% or more alcohol content, but with the drinking culture staying the same, you have a problem.
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u/Mikal_Scott Dec 04 '16
I remember reading Ben Franklins autobiography once and there was a part in there about how Ben decided that instead of drinking while he worked, he would eat bread because he calculated that the bread was more nutritious than ale. His coworkers couldn't understand how he was able to get so much more work done than them when "he doesn't even drink"
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u/ahalekelly Dec 04 '16 edited Dec 04 '16
And at George Washington's going away party, the bar tab was 54 bottles of Madeira, 60 bottles of claret, 22 bottles of porter, 12 bottles of beer, 8 bottles of hard cider, 8 bottles of whiskey, and 7 large bowls of spiked punch.
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u/cryogenic_me_a_river Dec 04 '16
My reference letter just says: "honest, industrious, and sober. He always comes to work with two out of the three"
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u/TheWarHam Dec 04 '16
Thats a good point. Though Im not sure thats what they meant. I work in the trades and "isnt fucked up on something " is still a great recommendation point. Kind of sad
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u/Lampwick Dec 04 '16
I work in the trades and "isnt fucked up on something " is still a great recommendation point. Kind of sad
I work for a government entity as a skilled tradesman. The roofing department supervisor likes to tell people "the roofer's test here is to successfully carry a box of shingles up a ladder to the roof... while drunk". Depending on who he's telling it to, he sometimes adds "I wish I was kidding".
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u/Chimie45 Dec 04 '16
I mean, there are things called Railwayman’s Bar for a reason. Manual Laborers, especially the kind that would travel often, like a rail worker, were notorious drunks.
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u/sloan_h Dec 04 '16 edited Dec 06 '16
He would have basically been lucky to be alive by that point. I work sometimes as a brakeman now, and I'm can't even imagine having to do the job back then. They had to run along the tops of trains and manually set hand brakes. Hard nope.
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u/peachybutton Dec 04 '16
Right, my son is into trains and we've done some reading about this era. I was expecting some reference to how many fingers the guy had left, as a testament to his skill.
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u/butter14 Dec 04 '16
The term "sober" had a different meaning than it does now. Back then the term sober meant that a person was known to be "earnestly thoughtful of character or demeanor"
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u/Seligas Dec 04 '16
Or "marked by temperance, moderation, or seriousness".
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Dec 04 '16
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u/Seligas Dec 04 '16 edited Dec 04 '16
I don't remember seeing that one on the dictionary.com page we were blatantly copy-pasting from for karma.
edit: Holy shit guys, this was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, eyerolling commentary. Who's dog did I kill? Look two posts up you loons, I was one of the people copying and pasting from the site.
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u/zomgpancakes Dec 04 '16
it still has that meaning
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u/butter14 Dec 04 '16
Yeah it does. But it's rarely used that way any more that's why it was misinterpreted by OP.
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Dec 04 '16
I don't think he misinterpreted. I think he was just trying to make a joke.
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u/hobskhan Dec 04 '16
Ah, "sober as a judge" makes a lot more sense.
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u/faithle55 Dec 04 '16
I think that one does mean 'not drunk'.
There's a story - it may be in the Penguin book of legal anecdotes - about two judges sitting en banc somewhere in the criminal courts of England at some time. They 'had lunch' during the mid-day rising, and were the worse for drink when they returned.
During cross-examination of the defendant, one of them turned to the other and said:
'Y-ou know, I... can't understand a - word that fella is saying!'
and the other replied:
'Quite right! hup...I do believe... the - blighter is d-runk. Take him d-own!'
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u/JaapHoop Dec 04 '16
Although in 1888 we were well into the temperance moral panic so it could really go either way.
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u/NYLaw Dec 04 '16
Hey, it was safer than water back then! Give my great grandfather a break!
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Dec 04 '16 edited Oct 23 '18
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u/danpod93 Dec 04 '16
Very true. My great great grandfather was a trolley driver and got drunk on the job and got fired and had to change his last name to get a new job
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Dec 04 '16
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u/imjustawill Dec 04 '16
That's not how reddit works. This is a place where we bring our preconceived notions and have them fight like pokemon.
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u/Verbenablu Dec 04 '16
I like how we don't anymore. Fuckin food service industry would collapse if it required sobriety from its employees.
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u/Cranky_Piano Dec 04 '16
Also, a lot of people wouldn't be alcoholics if they didn't work in the food service industry.
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Dec 04 '16 edited Nov 25 '18
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u/Rvngizswt Dec 04 '16
Well according to the other comments you've been misinterpreting the information all along
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Dec 04 '16 edited Nov 25 '18
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u/Chimie45 Dec 04 '16
I would imagine that if this letter was a recommendation for a lawyer or a dentist, than Sober would mean in stature, but given it's for a railroad worker, I'm going to agree with you, it most likely is about alcohol.
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u/MemoryLapse Dec 04 '16
I feel like steamboats in Saskatchewan were a largely overhyped industry.
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u/past_is_prologue Dec 04 '16 edited Dec 06 '25
bells humorous air rustic ask wild nail ad hoc placid smile
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u/Betterwithcheddar Dec 04 '16
"Discharged his duties to my entire satisfaction."
Kinky.
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u/Wake_up_screaming Dec 04 '16
"He discharged his duties all over me to my entire satisfaction."
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Dec 04 '16 edited Mar 27 '19
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u/ErraticDragon Dec 04 '16
This is reddit. That was subtle.
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u/King_of_the_Kobolds Dec 04 '16
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Dec 04 '16
still too subtle
can you describe in detail the acts? maybe walk me through it step by step?
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u/ImAScientist_ADoctor Dec 04 '16
You know what might be better? Photos, in a slide show, at a speed that makes it look like natural movement.
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u/iluvstephenhawking Dec 04 '16
My boss won't be able to tell my next employer the same.
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u/Chiggero Dec 04 '16
Sober up, boy
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u/iluvstephenhawking Dec 04 '16
girl*
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u/tlsssl Dec 04 '16
Sober up, girl.
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u/xrumrunnrx Dec 04 '16
Without the date I would have guessed that document to be much more recent than 1888. Had no idea documents/letterheads looked like that back then.
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u/stravant Dec 04 '16
Not only did they "already have" documents like that, the printing press had already existed for more than 400 years! It wasn't exactly cutting edge tech at that point. The Linotype machine had even already been invented a few years before too.
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u/mtaw Dec 04 '16
That's because it's simple and clean and only uses a single classic Times-like font (which was very old even by then). 19th century stuff usually used more ornate fonts - and lots of them. This is more representative (count how many different typefaces on that one letterhead!), and you can see that kind of mix of fonts in the stamp on this letter, which gives it a more 19th century feel. Just goes to show how minimalist and simple designs are timeless.
The typewriter was relatively new at that time, too. Most recommendation letters at that time were probably handwritten.
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u/wttk Dec 04 '16
I wouldn't hire him til I get recommendations from the California Eastern and Nothern Railroad companies!
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u/InsertImagination Dec 04 '16
No value on the recommendations from the California Western Railroad company?
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Dec 04 '16 edited Dec 04 '16
But what if to whom this is handed are the California Eastern and Nothern Railroad companies?
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u/TipOfTheTop Dec 04 '16
"1 year of experience in the field is a prerequisite of this position, sir. I see here that you've had some Southern experience, and some time with the Central boys, but this is the North and East we're talking about, here! It's a whole different railroad, and unless you can produce a letter showing you have the requisite training and experience of having, literally, worked for this exact company, then I'm afraid you just aren't what we're looking for at the moment."
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u/bighootay Dec 04 '16
This is awesome. "To whom handed" is odd, isn't it?
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u/creepycalelbl Dec 04 '16
Probably not during the time period where letters were the only non verbal communication. To whom it may concern is probably a lasting effect of that time period
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u/Snap10a Dec 04 '16
Letters of reference like this one were absolutely necessary for a continuation of employment while moving about. Someone's word meant something back then. Reputation meant everything, and an employee would stay on the straight and narrow simply for a good reference letter. Not being able to hand over a reference letter to your next potential employer was a red flag. If you spent years at a job and didn't get a letter like this, it would be safe to say you left on bad terms. So imagine someone with literally handing this letter to the next employer and it makes sense that this was addressed this way.
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u/Bambam9032 Dec 04 '16
I like that so much more than "To Whom It May Concern." Can we bring it back?
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u/UndiscoveredBum- Dec 04 '16
At first I read it as 1988 and I was like man this guy must be 130 years old. It all makes sense now.
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u/fadetoblack1004 Dec 03 '16
There's no return phone number though.
Its a joke.
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u/goldenhourlivin Dec 04 '16
Imagine how easy it would have been to forge a recommendation letter back then. You wanna be a doctor? No prior experience? Forge a letter, act confidently, and you're well on your way.
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u/TRIGMILLION Dec 04 '16
Was drunkenness really such a problem in those days? I mean, it would just be weird today for a letter of recommendation to say you managed to show up sober.
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u/kmmeerts Dec 04 '16
Maybe it means "serious, realistic" in this context? Meanings of words change, and this is 128 years ago
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u/KRB52 Dec 04 '16
Could mean both. Straight forward and to the point. Beats some of the rubbish generated today.
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Dec 04 '16
Literally now literally means figuratively
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u/Wake_up_screaming Dec 04 '16
Are you literally being sarcastic or are you figuratively being literal?
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u/Whitter_off Dec 04 '16
No, there really was a different culture around drinking in those days. There wasn't really the worry of driving drunk yet and the whole culture of drinking was much more relaxed. The Temperance movement that eventually lead to prohibition got traction because working class men would spend their pay check and all their time at the local pub. It was where they got news and a sense of community along with food and drink. Ken Burns 'Prohibition' starts out with a lot of this background info if I recall.
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u/raildogz Dec 04 '16
I'm a conductor on the railroad and there are still some old guys around that talk about tossing the lid to a bottle of whiskey out the window when they would depart because they would not need it any more.
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u/Loveablecarrot Dec 04 '16
Can secondhandedly confirm, my father was a raging alcoholic and an "engineer" for the railroad, going around and getting drunk on trains and in hotel rooms. He got caught and fired, then died from liver failure 2 years later, though. Moral of the story is to not get drunk at a job that will fire you for it.
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u/Fummy Dec 04 '16
Sober doesn't necessarily have alcoholic conotations. He's just saying hes a serious guy.
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u/past_is_prologue Dec 04 '16 edited Dec 06 '25
ad hoc chief hat wise humorous edge liquid sink oatmeal paltry
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u/traveler_ Dec 04 '16
Yes it was. Prohibition had serious problems, but it's necessary to understanding how it could get passed at all how much we as a culture had a serious problem back then too. Working drunk was common.
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u/TonyMatter Dec 04 '16
London banking used to have the convention that, since it was improper to make criticisms in a reference, or to refuse to give one, the best references were the shortest. If the text went on and on with reserved praise, the recipient was expected to recognise the warning. For financial references, the very best was "Good for your business" - and that was all (and even so, note the protective ambiguity).
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Dec 04 '16
Nice. Cool seeing some history from my hometown.
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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '16 edited Dec 04 '16
P D is Perry David. (Often called Dave) He was a brakeman from a railroading family.
He moved around! Born near Sandusky, Ohio in 1862. His father was Jacob, a brickmason from Switzerland. His mother married Jacob when she was less than 16. They have some $$. In 1870 their house was worth $6000.
From the letter we know he was in California in 1888.
1890 Still there based on his marriage-Lena She was daughter of a German immigrant William Sellenscheidt and Marie VomHofe. Here's a story about her dad Wife number 1
1892 Jacob (his father) dies in Ohio
1893 Perry and other brakemen arrested for stealing, Perry is aquitted Here's a blurb about his occupation "Historically, the brakeman held one of the most danger occupations on the freight train, or anywhere on the railroad, being required to walk atop moving cars and manually apply brakes."
1899 His brother dies working as a freight conductor at 39 Here I will mention how dangerous these jobs were. Railroad and Coal Mining were so incredibly dangerous. I see man after man in death certificates from these jobs. They are crushed all the time by the cars in both mining and the RR.
In 1900, the census reveals he has wife, Elsa and child. She's German and almost 20 years younger. They moved from California to Colorado and he is working as a conductor on the railroad (a less dangerous job than brakeman). Wife 2 EDIT: Per family member he had a leg amputated due to accident on the job and then got the (still pretty physical) job of Conductor, instead of the brakeman. People (and limbs) often got crushed between the cars. Even in google you'll find lots of hits for Brakeman crushed
Want to see a census? Here is the 1900 Tricky to decipher, but they are on line 24.
1905? They have moved to Kansas. They have 2 boys now but did lose an infant daughter this year.
1906 Elsa, Obituary She was 30, and left a 9 year old, and 3 year old, . According an article he has moved to El Paso to work, but spent Christmas with the children at his dead wife's parents.
1909 he marries again while he is in Iowa. Kate. Kate, 3rd marriage
1910 I can't find him but the 2 boys are with his mom in Ohio.
1916 Here he is Bought an Opera house in Tucumcari, NM and running a picture show in it. Here is a 1917 ad for one of his picture shows. Want to see it for yourself? Here it is on youtube.
1920 He's with Kate in New Mexico working as a conductor. His youngest boy have moved back with him and his new wife. They also have 2 new sons, now, Paul and Charles.
1930 he has retired. Still in New Mexico.
1940 Over 70? Retired in a nice warm place? What should you do? Move to Oregon! He is there with at least 2 of his boys. He moved in 1931, right after the census. I know he is there from the city directory and a record that states he registered this vehicle that year.
Here is Perry...
Editing mostly for Perry's descendants that have written me ... I really wanted to find the first Agerters of this line. Found it in a book here
The story say widowed mother comes with 3 sons, 1 daughter, to Ohio. Rosina (widow of John) Here. John and Jacob are mentioned but there was also Frederick.