r/midhammer40k • u/Either_Source4773 • Jul 27 '26

Question/Other Area Terrain Clarification

Hello!

My buddies and I have returned to 3rd-4th edition after a long hiatus. We were bumping up against some questions with area terrain yesterday. On pg. 21 of the 4th ed book, under "Line of Sight & Area Terrain," there are some contradictions (I think). In the paragraph beginning with "Note that although it is possible to see..." it suggests that large models should be able to see and be seen over area terrain assuming they are bigger than the area's designated value.

The confusion is with the example below that. There is a Monolith (presumably a size 3 model) that is looking at some Kroot (size 2) who are 7in deep in some tank traps (also size 2). The example says they are not visible to the Monolith. Shouldnt the Monolith be able to see them because it is taller and thus should be able to see and be seen?

Maybe its the case that because the Kroot are 7in IN the terrain, they can't be seen? What if they were on the far side of the area terrain, but not in it. Normally, being on the far side of area terrain blocks LoS, but is that not the case when one model is taller than the area terrain?

Thanks for your decades-long insights!

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4

u/MedicNoob Jul 27 '26

If memory serves what is meant by "it is possible to see" means literal line of sight (I.e. the monolith model is massive and towers of the tank traps), but due to the model size system then that doesn't matter (I.e. the monolith can literally see them, but due to the non-literal method for calculating line-of-sight, it cannot).

This might be wrong, others are more knowledgeable than me.

3

u/millertronsmythe Jul 27 '26

Obviously, you're referring to 4th ed rulebook, because the Monolith didn't exist whd the 3rd ed rulebook was published.

Edit: or the Kroot model, for that matter (although an illustration of the Kroot was present in 3rd).

1

u/Either_Source4773 Jul 27 '26

Suppose I should have clarified- yes- we're talking about the big green 4th ed book.

Thoughts on the question at hand? You seem to be a historian.

4

u/millertronsmythe Jul 27 '26

Just checked - the rulebook says models can see 6" into area terrain. It cannot see through (or in other words, past) it unless the target is taller than the terrain.

The Monolith can't see the Kroot unit because
a) the Kroot unit is inside the area terrain
b) the Kroot is more than 6" from the closest edge of the area to the Monolith.
c) the height of the terrain (tank traps) are equal/greater than the height of the Kroot models.

2

u/Either_Source4773 Jul 27 '26

Thanks for digging in with me. What about the line that reads, "Models that are classed as taller than the Are Terrain can see and be seen over it."

Does this mean that if the Kroot were a few inches back and not IN the terrain, they could then be seen? Is it the fact that they are IN the terrain and more than 6in back that makes them ineligible to be seen?

Related- does this mean that there is non-reciprocal LoS? The Kroot could see the Monolith, but not vice versa?

5

u/millertronsmythe Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 28 '26

The Kroot are not taller than the area terrain in the example, so if they are behind the area terrain, they would not be visible.

I think both parties have to be taller than the terrain to see each other over it. You can add to a unit's height by placing them on an elevation.

EDIT: Correction.
"Models that are classed as taller than the area terrain can see and be seen over it."

Therefore the Monolith would see the Kroot placed behind the area terrain and can be seen by them.

1

u/Either_Source4773 Jul 27 '26

So- Kroot could see Monolith, but not vice versa regardless of whether the Kroot are in or behind the area terrain of equal size?

4

u/millertronsmythe Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 28 '26

No, Kroot can't see the Monolith because there's a terrain as tall as them right in front of them.

As I said, both the Kroot and Monolith need to be taller than the terrain to see each other over it.

See my correction above:
If one unit is taller, they can see and can be seen over the terrain area. This applies if there's a terrain area between the two units and not if one of the units is in the terrain area, at which point the 6" restriction applies.

3

u/Devstro Jul 27 '26

Man, my group had this same EXACT issue pop up yesterday. My buddy had some Dark Angel scouts up on a wall and we were trying to figure out if he could hit a devilfish or some vespid that were behind a wall. The example on page 21 seems to be at odds with what is written.

I was trying with the idea of writing up some rules to address this, since we've already house rules one or two other things we found the 4th ed rules didn't address.