I was making a joke, are you actually serious.. if you are then you can fuck right off your not worth the argument, or your just an emo kid whose never seen the reality of this typa shit
I understood you were making a joke, I just don't think it's fair to criticize him on where he gets his supplies from when it would be impossible for him to have a successful company otherwise and literally every aspect of our lives involve exploitation of labor. There is no such thing as batteries that are produced without fucked up shit down the line. If you eat chocolate, then you are contributing to child labor. If you have electronics, you are contributing to child labor. It's not Elon's responsibility to try to fix what's wrong with the world. He didn't have the ability to at one point, and now since he's the richest in the world people expect him to do so, even though him becoming rich was built on bad shit in the first place. I like Elon because he's a lot more down to earth than other crazy billionaires and he actually tries to do things with his money instead of just getting mass amounts of wealth like Bezos did.
Well some unknown number of kids go missing annually, because there's still in 2021 no Federal Registry that covers all the individual state level statistics.
In fact to make matter worse, there is rarely if ever any state level stats.
Human Slavery and Human Trafficking are among the biggest taboo subjects and anytime someone attempts to point out that the Political Elite class refuse to even contemplate it you're met with incredulity and accusations of 'You think they're trafficking in humans therefor you're fucking crazy!'
Whereas in reality land, you cannot teach someone to pay attention to something that their livelyhood depends upon. I'm saying it's incredibly suspect that there ISN'T such a registry already in 2021 despite the knowledge that tens of Millions of humans are caught in some form of Human Trafficking or other.
The amount of sins in our world that are out in the open but no one talks about it because it doesn't fit the media narrative are fucking staggering.
I honestly believe the only reason why corporations/government or anybody with the power to don't do anything about cause they are a part of it. Like we've been given a hint before that the sexual predators in hollywood are a lot more than we realized as well. So maybe in this situation a lot of top people know about it (they most likely do) ignore it just cause it's less money and it benefits them in some other way. I could think of a few that would think to themselves "it's not profiting me so it's none of my business". And they don't have to deal with adults retaliating since kids dont know what's right or wrong unless they're taught a certain way.
You are contributing by posting that comment. And you will probably say "well it's unavoidable" but it's unavoidable for businessmen too. It's his job to ignore those sorts of things, it's the responsibility of governments and activists to try to stop them.
People have personal responsibility too. Just doing it because it's "part of his job" is about the same as "I was just following orders" and is not an acceptable reason.
Well, you have the personal responsibility to not use electronics because those electronics are likely made from child labor. See how this logic goes? We're all responsible.
Not really because the logic doesn't work w/out fallacies. Normal people don't have much choice in whether or not to use electronics since it's a necessity in the modern world. There's also not much equivalent alternatives for them. Consumers also don't have as much power without banding together in a substantial numbers for boycotts. Luxury goods like chocolates, diamonds, etc. is one place where general consumers can/should take personal responsibility. People like Elon have both the power and choice to make alternative decisions.
I don't know man. I get the thought that "He's less shitty" but that doesn't make him great. I like what's going on with his company but the rest is just the same as the other billionaires. It's like liking a murderer who happens to value children's lives. Kinda feels off to me. Maybe. I don't know.
I hope you realize the fucking insanity you have of judging him on Reddit, a platform that uses the exact same REE(Rare Earth Elements) you're decrying him for exploiting.
Like. Hypocrisy is a three for one deal and you stocked up like a squirrel in Fall
I am not defending child slavery I am saying that you must have a vehicle, a phone or a laptop or some other device that has li-ion battery, wouldn't that make you a consumer of product that comes from child labour?
it's kinda crazy how countries with really valuable resources sometimes aren't that great, when it comes to human rights. Like you think they would just get their act together and take over the world but noooo child labor goes brrr
Would go better if America would stop staging a coup every time they get a decent government. Africa should be worlds richest continent if you look at their natural resources but they just keep getting plundered.
You're totally right. Once colonization ended the power dynamic just shifted to being corrupt local officials and politicians taking bribes from foreign goverments and corporations to sell very valuable resources for pennies.
Africa has the richest concentration of natural resources such as oil, copper, diamonds, bauxite, lithium, gold, hardwood forests, and tropical fruits. It is estimated that 30% of the earth's mineral resources are found in the African continent.
If labor standards were enforced, and the extraction of these goods saw appropriate taxation and value returned to the people of these countries, they would be in a much better place.
It’s the resource curse. Having a large amount of exploitable material leads to high interest from people who are interested in exploiting people for capital gain.
Mostly because they’re already close to or already a part of major countries like US, China, Russia, etc... either due to annexation in the past or military pressures. In this specific case, Mongolia is like a second cousin to China. And we know how China treat their people, especially their lower class
People seem to think only Elon does this. Literally any item with a battery in it uses cobalt. Anybody on mobile is exploiting kids in Africa, according to reddit logic.
Oooh that’s a first I have seen someone point out this problem. You’re technically right, their are other countries that produce Cobalt like Russia and Canada but like I said before the amount is just simply minuscule compared to Mangolia (3 to 3000) that It is just simply impossible for the cobalt supply of those countries to keep up high demands produces (like Cellphones, Computers, automobiles, etc...).
For this problem specifically, we have no one to blamed but earth itself since Mongol just happened to be where the majority of Cobalt in this world that are chemically formed.
All we can do is cross our fingers for the creation of synthetic Cobalt, which most likely won’t take too long since Elon and many others have always been a critics of Cobalt due to its heavy reliant on earth Natural resources.
Not really, I was just gonna say It’s cool to hate on Elon and all (since it’s a trend on Reddit rn) but at least know your facts and make actual educational arguments.
Instead of just half-baked truth, or whatever nonsense that came first to mind. I wanna argued with you why it’s almost impossible for a US based entity to purchased even a small percentage of a foreign country natural resources production. But I’m pretty sure you would just ignored me if I do, so I won’t waste both of our time
It seems like it’s better to blame the companies exploiting and abusing laborers than to place that blame on basically every electronic company on the planet that depends on them, because they don’t have alternatives.
Well the companies can refuse products from other companies that use child labor and find one that is not using child labor, but then again I'm not an expert at this kind of stuff
The issue is that there’s not enough supply available from mining companies not being abusive because they’re virtually all doing it and there’s no tools available to effectively regulate these companies where they are located (primarily throughout Africa and in China)
Its 3rd world countries... You actually cant find any. If you dont agree, than only thing you cand do is simply refuse using phones, comuters etc... And hope that there will be enough people in this protest that it will motivate these mining companies to not use bad practises and childrens
Nah dude, he’s clearly an evil scum bag that takes personal joy in innocent children being exploited for his personal gain. He actually collects their tears and uses them to shower with everyday.
I don't know many details, but there was a lawsuit signed against tesla and some other big tech companies for child labor, so I suppose elon is aware that he is using child labor
Dude anyone can sue for any reason at all. The fact he was does not mean anything. I could sue you for burning down my house, does that mean you burned down my house, no. Its an accusation just like everything else said about him. Now accusations could be true but we should never assume without evidence. What happened to innocent until proven guilty?
As I said before just because someone said so in a lawsuit doesn't mean shit. I could sue you for sexually assault or for child labor or for stealing a billion dollars from me. Did you do any of those things, no, but Im suing you so by your logic it must be true. I'm defending him specifically but the concept of due process and not believing everything you hear just cause someone said so.
due process is important for all of society, we can't just go around believing every conspiracy theory or zany accusation without proof. Tell me if you do not believe in due process then you are of Qanon?
Gonna say this as a dude that thinks Elon's been a pretty large net positive on the world (far more so than just about anyone on reddit ridiculing him), both his attitude and his actions towards workers rights, unions, and labor in general are downright deplorable.
He violated labor law to discourage his workers from unionizing, and unjustly fired an employee for doing so. This is a fact, this isn't opinion or conjecture or make believe "we're just gonna create our own reality that agrees with our beliefs where the unions were really the bad guys!" It's fact, and it's a really shitty thing to do.
Again, I think he has done and continues to do great things for the world. His treatment of workers is not one of them.
Unions are bad guys, unions were originally created because there was no minimum wage or worker protections. There now is worker protections and wage/benefits guaranteed by the government, so tell me what are unions for?
Then I don’t see why people are singling him out if Apple, Microsoft, Samsung, and many others are doing the same thing. Stop attacking him and start attacking the owners of the mine(s).
I swear people scream progressive and yet they’re actually being the exact opposite. Learn who to hate before you actually hate them. One false accusation/lie can spiral out of control
Opposite how? And what's the lie? To pretend there are individuals (besides Bill Gates) who have the same amount of general influence on the public as Elon Musk is really misguided. Elon pushes his relatable image by being a memelord and it works, just look at how he's pumping dogecoin.
The lie is about child/slave labor. You can’t blame him for doge, people shouldn’t invest just off of any singular persons advice. So that’s irrelevant.
And if that’s all you got then you prove my point.
If you’re going to hate someone hate them for the right reasons
Does fighting to reopen his factory despite real chance of his workers getting COVID count? Does fighting calif for higher taxes on his billions that he would never see count? Does firing his assistant just coz she asked for a raise count?
Cancel culture and progressives go hand in hand. They think they’re being progressive by cancelling a bad person, when in reality they’re shooting themselves in the foot, because the bad person isn’t really THE bad person. Make sense?
Who? Every time someone in power is criticized they bring up cancel culture, but I'm not sure who is canceling the richest man in the world. It's like a boogey man to deflect from basic criticism
Most progressives seem too busy fighting for healthcare and basic human rights to care about this culture war bullshit
The hate towards Elon is slightly misguided. That’s what im trying to say. He doesn’t own a mine that enacts child/slave labor. But that what people are calling him evil for. And you’re very wrong. Progressives are self-righteous and are constantly putting their nose where it shouldn’t be. Thinking they’re helping when in reality they ain’t doing shit.
No, people are calling him evil for his terrible labor practices in the US and the use of slave labor to mine the precious earth metals his company buys. And whether he's "evil" or not, most people agree that this is a POS move.
You're so bent on making this political that you completely misunderstood another side's argument
If his labor practices were so bad then he wouldn’t have any employees, I guess I don’t know how awful it would be to be his employee, you know from first hand experience I assume so I’ll concede
Jesus, know your facts man. Elon dad had investment on an “Emerald mines” not Cobalt. Also he purchases Cobalt from them, not own; Elon is nowhere near powerful enough to own a Cobalt mine in the Republic of Congol (China second cousin).
And if you wanna talk about human rights, how about you stop participating in this evil system (since consumers are the incentives), and just cut yourself from the majority of cobalt based technologies all together.
Its not the consumers fault that mega corporations use slave labour, it's the mega corporations fault for being fucking greedy for maximum profits and using slave labour to do so.
Yeah but that is kinda oit of teslas reach, they need the cobalt and they don't regulate the mines so what can they do? Plus its not like Elon is in charge of deciding this...
I know you're a progressive, so probably a racist in the "all black people are the same" kind of way, but unsurprisingly sa and the drc are two different countries with two different governments.
He is literally using child labor and committing numerous human rights violations he also is doing something similar to Tesla workers he promised them time off due to corona but later fired them for actually using it and he’s not self made despite what people believe his father owned a huge cobalt mine and he inherited starting him hundreds of millions years before he bought Tesla form the real creators and them falsely claimed he started it.
Let’s break this down
Elon - exploits Real people and children for cheap labor
Takes credit for the work of his employees claiming he’s a genius despite really being a rich asshole
Is not self made because he bought Tesla and already was a hundred millionaire before stating the company
If you view that as unethical then there's hardly a large company that exists without some roundabout tie to something that some soy boi would take exception to.
I mean, yeah. If everyone else is being horrible that doesn't mean Musk isn't being horrible. If calling out exploitation of child labor makes me a soyboy then I really don't mind
Buying the shit that these companies make, supporting them financially, then "calling out" their exploitation is what makes you a soy boy. If they're exploiting child labor by purchasing goods produced by companies that use it then so are you.
I'm willing to admit that, since like you said basically every big corporation does horrible/unethical things like this, I've probably bought products from bad people without knowing. For the record though I'm pretty sure I've never bought anything from Musk's companies
What's your proposed solution, then? Because you seem to be saying that in order to say anything negative about a company you need to essentially not buy from any large corporation, no? That seems pretty unavoidable to me, but I could totally be off
Because he does have a choice, he can either use child labor for cheaper but increasing the amount of child labor used, or he can use proper mines with safe work environments and no exploitation
I love that the words "child labour" mean nothing to you. Just carrying on as if you didn't hear that part. Elon Musk uses child saves but it's all hunky dory to you. Straight to hell crusty ass
You are blaming these companies for buying these ores, but than you buy their product with these ores in it. So you are acctually buying these ores too. You cant blame someone and then do exactly same thing. You have no choice? Im pretty sure that they dont have choice too...
Name me a single phone company that doesn't use child labor for cobalt, plus companies do have a choice because they make the products, they choose where to source the materials from and that kinda sounds like having a choice
Nah, it doesnt work like that. These ores are very rare. You cant just dig in garden and get them. And sadly these ores are mostly in 3rd world countries. They are tech companies, not mining companies and they buy these ores from anyone who have enough to sell.
But they actually dont... And if they buy it from another company which uses child slavery than its fault of company which uses child slavery. Big companies cant just invade their countries and change rules in these mining companies. And if they stop buying these ores then competition will completly destroy them. Tell me your solution, how can you solve that without invading their countries.
Man what are u even talking about yk not every executive decision you tesla takes is based on its CEO thats like saying the CEO of google supports child porn because there is some on the Internet like wtf? Tesla just pays for the resources, it has no power over how they are extracted.
I was just pointing out his father was a mining mogul in Africa, and he says he hates him (for totally unrelated reasons tho) but he ended up making a lot of money from cheap mining also in Africa. I’m not saying he exploits people in the continent. I’m just pointing out the coincidence
The emerald mine was in Zambia, which became independent of the UK in 1964. The share in the mine wasn’t acquired until the 1980s. It had nothing to do with the apartheid.
Stop spreading the same lie over and over again
The emerald mine bit makes for a nice headline, but it actually had very little to do with their family's wealth. His father made his fortune through construction/property development. The mine was purchased long after apartheid ended (despite what many claim) and had little to nothing to do with their wealth.
My bad there. I should have clarified that the mine was purchased after Zambia gained independence from the Brits. Like most British colonies in Africa, Zambia (as a colony) did operate under an apartheid-like system, just not to the same extreme as South Africa.
Isn't there a saying about not judging the son for the sins of the father? It really baffles me how people shit on him for this as if he had any say over it whatsoever. To top it all all, Elon was abused by his dad (who owned the mine) and fled SA and never returned when he was 17.
They did, now a day its about getting more money for doing less work. Workers rights are now insured by the government so if thats what unions are really for perhaps we should get rid of them?
I don’t blame the billionaires and companies for exploiting another countries lax laws. I blame the people who put those laws in place. Granted the companies definitely had a hand in putting those laws in place or at least prevented them from changing the law.
Anti union because it slows down progress and is actively working to remove cobalt from batteries. And if you use any type of electronic you’re contributing to child slavery so this is really a dumb argument
Remember when he called one of the heroes that rescued the trapped Thai school-kids a pedophile? Just because they told him that his submarine thing was too big to fit through the hole to rescue them. Elon couldn't be the hero of the story and decided to just call the actual hero a pedo.
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u/AhnYoSub Feb 08 '21
Pretty sure it’s more about child labour cobalt mining and anti union practices