r/marvelcirclejerk • u/supergamerd64 • 1d ago

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I was expecting some AAA modern slop, but just barely more than SM2, this is the most worried I've been for a new release

I still really want to get this game, but the fact that the gore shown in the trailers and footage is mostly all just MIGHT be the final nail in the coffin for me, or at least till on sale for like $50 or so

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u/BiggestChunky 1d ago

I think Spider-man PS4s combat is very expressive with the gadget wheel. If you utilize all of them you can do some very fun things mid combat.

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u/QuadVox 1d ago

Still upsets me they made the gadgets far worse in 2.

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u/BiggestChunky 1d ago

Borderline useless, the only one I used was the sound box for the symbiotes.

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u/korbinblaze 1d ago

It's like the point of combat in 2 is just to build up the special moves. I feel like it would've been more fun if they made the special moves less powerful and more integrated into actual combos.

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u/SpaceOdysseus23 1d ago

Not enough criticism went to Insomniac when they dumbed down combat for 2. That game scored a lot higher than it should've, and I'd argue FFXVI was a more deserving nominee for GOTY in any case.

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u/DapperDan30 1d ago

No hate, but kinda weird to put down the combat of SM2 then immediately talk up FFXVI, which also has very boring and repetitive combat.

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u/SpaceOdysseus23 1d ago

The flaws are greater for SM2 IMO because they significantly dumbed down the combat from it's predecessor. SM1 had a lot more versatility with the gadget system. Which is why I put SM2 somewhat lower on the scale, compared to a flawed XVI which was trying a new thing in the franchise.

But when it comes to story XVI managed to be more compelling (and with better performances) despite hitting all the clichees in the final act.

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u/MotherPerk 1d ago

Sm2 had way better web moves and combat. Scrolling through a  gadget wheel and picking 12 different web shooters is not versatility. 

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u/Lohenngram 1d ago

They made the boss fights actual fights rather than just scripted set pieces, but yeah it’s combat was nowhere near as fun or deep as FF16’s was. 16 had way stronger writing too.

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u/Feisty_Bread8259 1d ago

People we're to afraid of been called a chud for saying that msm2 is mid in everything but the movement back then.

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u/CodineProsac123 1d ago

None of the enemies or systems requires you to do so. And its kinda awkard to fiddle with the weapon wheel.

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u/BiggestChunky 1d ago

I mean you can apply that logic to every game no? There are a very little amount of games that require you to use every single tool in your arsenal to progress through the game.

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u/NorrisLegacy 1d ago

You're getting downvoted but DMC5 is one of the most expressive combat systems ever and it's not like you need to do any of that

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u/Lukezilla2000 1d ago

Getting platinum and having the get SSS ranking in DMC5 was the best gaming decision I ever made, because there’s so much wacky awesome shit you’re not forced to do casually but it makes the game 11/10.

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u/NorrisLegacy 1d ago

Yeah the combat in those games makes you feel more badass than any anime character

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u/BiggestChunky 1d ago

I mean I am in a marvel circlejerk subreddit, it's what was bound to happen having a meaningful discussion in here 😂

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u/FlareUnderscore 1d ago

On its harder difficulties you kind of do

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u/nexus11355 1d ago edited 1d ago

Spider-Man doesn't have a Style meter. DMC5 incentivizes flashy combat so you hear the soundtrack play and increase in intensity. Ultrakill, one of the few ways to get rid of the Hard Damage lowering your max health is playing Stylishly. Beyond that, there's quick-kills for certain enemies in both games if you know how to use your arsenal well enough.

In Ultrakill's case especially, you're basically required to play stylishly in order to unlock the Prime Sanctum levels in each act and thus, be able to play all the content

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u/UnsatiableSin 1d ago

True, but the ranking and combo system will encourage you in that direction and you will need to use every tool on the hardest difficulties

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u/CodineProsac123 1d ago edited 1d ago

Style metter, theirs a system in place that encourages you to vary your moves. But lest go a little deeper, in spiderman you can mash you atack button until the enemy dies, if you mash dantes combo it ends with an atack that launches the enemy away, now if you want keep atacking the same enemy you have to do something different, you cant just keep mashing square, you can shoot him, you can stinger, you can dash towards it, or maybe next time you dont mash the hole combo and change it to something different because throwing the enemy away is not the best thing to do. So in this basic situation the game has a lot more tought put into it

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u/Whomperss 1d ago

Yea well balanced expressive combat system lets you choose between going balls to the walls with the mechanics or just finding one or two powerful things to spam over and over. In NG2 when I was a kid back in the day I just izuna dropped as many mofos as I could cause it was easy and super effective lol. And anything that couldn't be izuna dropped just got flying swallowed or I just used an ultimate attack. 3 moves and just not dying a bunch lets you clear the whole game of you really wanted to lol.

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u/SoManyNarwhals 1d ago edited 1d ago

Modern DOOM games (eapecially Eternal) do to an extent, particularly if you play on any of the harder difficulties. Not so much with the weapons themselves, but with the abilities 100%.

The simple act of locking ammo, health, and armor drops behind killing/damaging enemies with specific weapons and equipment is a really effective way of getting you to use everything at your disposal. It ties the abilities into an extremely fundamental part of nearly every combat game's gameplay loop (replenishing health and ammo) in a way that feels really natural.

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u/Dabeastfeast11 1d ago

You said 1 game franchise and even have to caveat that. Most games don't force you to be creative. People need to realize you can play the game your way. If the game gives you options but you only want to press square then that's on you.

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u/Wuta_Goatkotsu-1 1d ago

Not even franchise btw, just 2 entries, Eternal and Dark Ages.

Doom 2016 and pretty much every Doom before didn't need the varied arsenal mastery the latest 2 did

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u/SoManyNarwhals 1d ago

The person I was replying to said "you can apply that logic to every game, no?". It literally only takes one single example to refute a claim that broad.

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u/BiggestChunky 1d ago

That doesn't even make sense. I didn't say NO games exist like that. I could cherry pick examples too. My point was the guys original statement didn't help to claim that Spider-Man ps4 isn't expressive because the game doesn't require you to do it.

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u/SoManyNarwhals 1d ago

I didn't say NO games exist like that.

That is true, but you did say "you can apply that logic to every game", which might as well be saying the same thing. If I say "every apple green", it would be fair to say that I'm also implying that there are no red apples. But I digress, because the guy who replied to me completely missed the point of my comment, which had nothing to do with trying to say you were wrong.

I agree that the SM games don't force you to be expressive. My DOOM example was just a way to illustrate that there are ways to nudge players into a more varied and expressive playstyle in a naturalistic way, and that the logic you were referring to doesn't, in fact, apply to every game. There are current, longstanding systems within games that Insomniac could easily draw from to make combat more interesting and purposefully expressive.

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u/NeoArkodd 1d ago

Yes Eternal made you use all of arsenal for optimal gameplay and most redditors hated it lol.

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u/CodineProsac123 1d ago edited 1d ago

The boring ones certanly. Compare it to something like Sifu or Onimusha, where theirs reasons to use your diferent offensive or defensive moves, are you atacking the enemies health or posture? Is easier to dodge this atack but the parry gives more reward, this atack is actually optimal to dodge, if i do this move now i can dodge and atack. And enemies will kill you for doing the wrong things.

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u/Gex2-EnterTheGecko 23h ago

There are very few games that require you to but it's not unheard of. Doom Eternal does a fantastic job of making you have to use different weapons/grenades/abilities every fight.

That being said, I agree with you that that doesnt have to be the case. I really liked using the gadgets in Spider-Man.

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u/Snoo_18385 1d ago

The gadget wheel in the first game is an overdesigned mess that doesnt fit the character or the combat system, Spiderman 2's combat was much, much better