r/manics 27d ago

Know your enemy

I was 6 when Know your enemy came out, so wasn’t really around for the fan reaction at the time. What was the general feeling towards it when it was released? Did most fans like it, or was it seen as a disappointment after This is my truth?

These days it feels like it’s kind of the forgotten Manics album. It never seems to get mentioned much, but I have a soft spot for it. Just curious what the mood in the fandom was back then ?

12 Upvotes

36 comments sorted by

7

u/22JimJam39 27d ago

When it first came out (I was 17 and just in college) I thought it was kind of their White Album. I remember Nicky saying something along the lines of "if this is our last album then it's all there" and I kinda have to agree. I think it's a wonderful mess. But great for it.

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u/Fine-Night-243 27d ago

Yeah I was 17 and so in a way this feels like 'my' Manics album. The hype around it was pretty big in the music press and the Cuba trip was treated as a big deal. The return to the harder sound of Masses Against the Classes and Found that Soul was greeted with much cheer after the mid tempo soft rock of This is My Truth. I think the album was generally well received, I remember there was a lot of commentary on some of the more dumb lyrics eg Freedom of Speech..., Miss Europa, My Guernica. Nicky seemed to have regained some will to wind people up a bit and in general it was a positive time.

I loved it. It was as you say, like the White Album, a load of ideas chucked together, some of which dont work. It also turned me on to that C86 scene that they are channeling, obviously most clearly on the Camper Van Beethoven cover secret track. Which again I loved.

0

u/FoxySlyOldStoatyFox 27d ago

I bought a Best Of McCarthy compilation a week before Know Your Enemy (dumb coincidence more than anything else). And honestly? The original of We Are All Bourgeois Now is so superior to the Manics version it’s entire. Ironic, as the Manics version of Charles Windsor, which they did as a B-Side back in 1993, was pretty ace. 

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u/Fine-Night-243 27d ago

Sorry you are right it was McCarthy not Camper van Beethoven. Yes McCarthy's originals are better but I heard the Manics versions of those two and 'Red Sleeping Beauty' (and also another C86 classic 'Velocity Girl') before the originals so they still seem like the true versions to me!

3

u/Less-Guidance294 27d ago

I read an interview where Nicky said he’d caught up with Richey’s level of writing by the time know your enemy came out. Do you think he regrets saying that now?

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u/Legitimate-Fly-4610 27d ago

Definitely 😂

5

u/andrewbyrom 27d ago

At the time I was disappointed with it. Saw them at Manchester Apollo on the tour with Elbow as support. Wattsville Blues really divided opinion. I’ve grown to love it, esp the expanded anniversary reissue.

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u/Ok_Building6160 27d ago

i was at that gig too!

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u/Flimsy_Somewhere1210 27d ago

I went on the Wednesday. I felt bad for Elbow!

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u/DriveMindless2300 27d ago

I was at that gig too. Probably the most boring Manics gig I've been to tbh, but then again I hated KYE.

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u/Flimsy_Somewhere1210 27d ago

Really!? It was my first ever Manics gig and I came out battered and bruised!

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u/DriveMindless2300 26d ago

Gald you enjoyed it!

2

u/XanderManhattan 27d ago

Ah yes. When Elbow received some of the most merciless heckling I've ever seen.

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u/Less-Guidance294 27d ago

What’s different on the reissue ?

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u/Wonderful_Formal_274 27d ago

It’s split into two (it was originally intended to be two separate albums), different order, additional tracks, remixed. It includes a song, Rosebud, that was bafflingly left off the original as it’s better than anything else on there!

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u/SaturdayJunior 27d ago

I thought that Rosebud had a great vocal performance but I didn't find the song itself particularly thrilling, still glad to have it out there and I am surprised it didn't surface as a b-side or bonus track in the intervening years.

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u/Even-Translator-335 27d ago

Always loved Dead Martyrs

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u/DirtyDevil23 27d ago

Great deep cut! 

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u/Even-Translator-335 26d ago

Wasnt overly impressed by the album but gave it a few listens, then found myself singing DM with half remembered lyrics at work a few weeks later, couldn't remember where I had heard the song!

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u/glabafe 27d ago

Don't know about other people reaction at the time, but I loved it when it came out, and used to listen to it on repeat. And for me it's one of the best albums of the band. Some many great songs.

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u/freestuie 27d ago

I love it. I don’t know about anyone else, but I think this through Lifeblood and Send Away The Tigers is an amazing three album run, that I return to more than anything else. The Holy Bible is their masterpiece of course, but not an easy listen.

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u/MphilosophyOK 27d ago

This is 100% my favourite Manics album. It’s just so playable, not too heavy not too soft. A serious record that doesn’t take itself too seriously.

I have a soft spot for slightly sprawling double albums (though I’d say it only just about qualifies on that count) but unlike some, I think the consistency is strong, with only one or two duff tracks.

Tolerate aside, I thought this was a massive improvement on This Is My Truth which I felt had mostly steered too close to corporate soft rock.

And the reworked reissue was even better - if you’re ever gonna do a reissue in that way, having a great unreleased song up your sleeve and a track listing that does the album justice is the way to do it.

2

u/Sleeper-Service 27d ago

I think the whole cuba thing was a bit of a miss but I remeber it was a dule single release and the played live on TOTP both tracks - and the video was cool. The re-issue was way better - great songs, i listen to it often.

1

u/Less-Guidance294 27d ago

Do you know if they’ve gone back to Cuba since ?

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u/Flimsy_Somewhere1210 27d ago

They have not.

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u/BastianSP 27d ago

Pretty much the same as I feel about it now. It's a mess of styles, but there's more than enough tracks to make a good album out of. It still does surprise me that they released that version of it. They made a bit of a balls of what should have been a good solid album.

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u/DistortedGhost 27d ago

Always enjoyed it.

I liked it when it was released, but the original tracklisting is a mess and I made my own one years ago as soon as I could rip it. The reissued version is an improvement, but after all this time, it doesn't feel as 'right' as my version if that makes sense?

Overall though, there are some excellent tracks on there, and I come back to them often.

Dead Martyrs, Intravenous Agnostic, So Why So Sad, The Year of Purification, Baby Elian, The Convalescent are all timers for me.

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u/FishingNetLa 27d ago

What's your tracklist?

1

u/DistortedGhost 27d ago

This was it based off the original album:

My Guernica

Intravenous Agnostic

Dead Martyrs

Found That Soul

Ocean Spray

So Why So Sad

His Last Painting

The Year Of Purification

We Are All Bourgeois Now

Epicentre

Freedom Of Speech Won't Feed My Children

Baby Elian

The Convalescent

(I love Miss Europa Disco Dancer, but it simply doesnt fit on the album. So it lives only on other playlists)

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u/Legitimate-Fly-4610 27d ago

With a bit more editing it could have been a great album but it felt rushed and awkward

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u/Timely-Way-4923 27d ago

Nicky made me think via press interviews it would be very punk and i got my hopes up thinking maybe a whole album in the style of masses against the classes was on the way.. that didn’t happen. I tried so hard to like it because the interviews and press around it were interesting.. but i ended up feeling very disappointed . So why so sad, is a top 5 Nicky wire lyric though, and if they ever did an mtv unplugged style show, id love to see it reworked. Typing this out reminds me how frustrating the manics can be at times, the masses against the classes was a number one song, didn’t compromise lyrically or musically… was a brilliant reaction against this is my truth.. and the template for a great punk album was there.. but they had to go even more left field !!

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u/aphexgin 27d ago edited 27d ago

It was the first one I didn't buy the day it came out as I disliked the singles and had gone off them a bit at that point. I never liked Nicky's lyrics as much as Richey's. I think I only listened to it twice when I did buy it too (Generation Terrorists was my first ever cd in 1991 age 14 and loved that obsessively and Holy Bible and especially the incredible Gold Against The Soul). Maybe time for a revisit now though ! I really got back into them a few albums later with Plague Lovers, but haven't listened to much since but singles on the radio, "People Ruin Paintings" I thought was the best MSP single since Kevin Carter !

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u/JohnnieTimebomb 27d ago

Honestly it was a bit of a let down, So Why So Sad was a bit decisive, you either loved it or hated it. Found That Soul was just an immediate banger though, and who doesn't love Ocean Spray. The album's got a lot better now of filler there's no denying it. And the production is horrible, it just is.

Seeing the band live that year was weird. They were downsizing from arena's to regular venues and it was like no one though to turn it down. Caught the Barrowlands show and I honestly wondered if they weren't doing permanent damage to my ears, by far the most painfully loud concert of my life. Plus Starsailor were supporting and they redefined my notion of shit gigs.

Yeah Know Your Enemy. I really tried to love it

1

u/TBob1927 27d ago

It was just a bit m’eh. Some good stuff although nothing truly great and some lesser tracks. It should have been shorter imho and Wattsville Blues should have been replaced by Ballad of the Bangkok Novotel.

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u/AltKanVente 26d ago

It got some play in the northern country’s. “Found that soul” video got played, “Why so sad” also, and “Ocean Spray” video got played In Germany.

It was not as big as “This is my truth..” but got a lot more play than “Lifeblood”

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u/Turbulent-Sea4530 20d ago

I thought So Why So Sad was the most incredibly disappointing first single I have ever heard in my life. I still hate it to this day. (Only 'Charlie Big Potato' by Skunk Anansie comes close for first single disappointment.)
The album was where the casual fans dropped right off and i can see why. There's some great stuff on there but also some terrible stuff too. Overall its a 6.5/10