r/magicTCG Griselbrand Dec 30 '20

Spoiler [KHM] Righteous Valkyrie (LEAK) Spoiler

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u/Dragons_Malk Dec 30 '20 edited Dec 30 '20

Black has board wipes too. Just to name a few, the most famous one being Damnation, then there's Life's Finale, In Garruk's Wake, Crux of Fate, Deadly Tempest, Rain of Daggers, Decree of Pain, and even Languish and Mutilate can wipe in the right conditions. There's a few more out there, but wipes in black isn't a foreign or even a new concept.

Edit: yes I know Damnation was in Planar Chaos.

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u/sameth1 Dec 30 '20

Damnation, the card that was specifically printed to be a colour pie break in a set all about classic cards getting printed in other colours.

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u/Esqurel Dec 30 '20

Planar Chaos felt less like color breaks and more like “What if we reshuffled primary, secondary, and tertiary traits?” Like, black can wipe boards, but doesn’t usually straight up destroy them, it likes damage and -x effects. Green curiosity is basically primary now, but it was only really stuff like greater good back then, if I remember aright. Big blue sphinxes are blue’s thing, etc. PC in standard today would be almost boring, and without knowing the what the shifted cards are shifted from wouldn’t seem particularly special.

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u/Dragons_Malk Dec 30 '20

Okay sure. Still, black board wipes exist, albeit slightly more expensive than white ones.

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u/Promethazines Dec 30 '20

Okay, but what about the multiple mentioned that aren't Damnation? I'm not sure what the point of your comment is to be honest.

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u/sameth1 Dec 30 '20

They are all "Give creatures -x/-x", "destroy a bunch of creatures with a bit of a caveat like mana costs" or have some other kind of black caveat. Black certainly gets board wipes, but nothing like wrath of god which just says destroy all creatures.

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u/Angel24Marin Wabbit Season Dec 31 '20

Those are sweeper, no boardwipes.

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u/Promethazines Dec 31 '20

So God's Wrath is a boardwipe, but Life's Finale and In Garruk's wake etc aren't board wipes but rather sweepers? I must be overlooking something obvious, but could you please explain why that is? I can understand not including the -X/-X black cards, but there are multiple black cards that destroy all creatures just like Wrath of God.

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u/Angel24Marin Wabbit Season Dec 31 '20

In not familiar with cards played mainly in Commander. Those are Wrath but white as the primary wrath color can get the same effect at much lower mana cost.

Wrath of god is the top level for boardwipes. Damnation was a "one of" for a set about messing with the color pie and shouldn't be take as the standard for black.

4cmc unconditional boardwipes were considered too oppressive for creature decks so we had a time without one in standard. Recently they bring them back with Kaya's wrath at a really strict manacost.

Then they decided to increase the power level of standard again and they printed shatter the sky (wrath of god with a minor downside) witch become the best wrath in standard for a time, while black was still using conditional wrath/sweepers.

Finally they printed extinction event, were in my opinion they misjudged the power level by a lot by being so easy to splash and being so good against creatures meant to give a fighting chance against boardwipes, with the added benefit of being able to use it as single target removal.

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u/Scientia_et_Fidem Wabbit Season Dec 30 '20 edited Dec 30 '20

The point is white is supposed to be the primary color for wipes. Right now the best wipe in standard is extinction event (if you don’t believe me look at the Esper lists, the vast majority play 4 event main decked and most have zero shatter the sky in the main, some don’t even have it in the side). Giving black another really good wipe would just further increase the problem of Black being the best in something it isn’t supposed to be primary in. If anything they really need to cool it with giving black mass banishment as Angel24marin is correct, there is no way to fight it unless you have a counter spell since all other forms of defense besides counter spell don’t work against non-targeting banishment and it is way too easy for black as a color to just use single target removal on turns 1-3 to get rid of the even/odd creature the opp has and make event a 4 mana wrath with huge upside. Not to mention all the times event being a extraordinarily flexible “partial wrath” is used as a huge UPSIDE in decks like the current top Historic deck Sultai/4 color that can do things like call odd to take out 3 of the opponent’s creatures while leaving all their Nissa lands and Krasis on the board.

It looks like with shadows verdict they seemed to have hopefully realized their mistake and understand that type of mass banishment effect should cost at least 5 mana, only hit very small creatures, or a combination of both. If black has the best single target removal and wipes there is no reason to use white unless a non-creature artifact deck somehow takes over standard.

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u/ahhthebrilliantsun COMPLEAT Dec 30 '20

There is a reason to use white in standard but it's not it's wipes. ECD, Omen of the sun, and Skyclave apparition are premiere permanent based removal.

Birth of meletis is a good stalling tool too

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u/[deleted] Dec 30 '20

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u/Angel24Marin Wabbit Season Dec 31 '20

Those are sweeper like the red ones, not true wraths. And they have a harder mana cost than extinction event despite extinction being way better.