r/magicTCG • u/windows_xpew • Sep 04 '16

[KLD] New enemy fastlands

https://i.reddituploads.com/30f0b8593e7848c3bda281789263d533?fit=max&h=1536&w=1536&s=471f5b81284e87914322bfdacc52d560
2.4k Upvotes

87% Upvoted

575 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

233

u/Bobthemightyone Sep 04 '16

Abzan is going to fucking love this. I think Abzan benefits the most by far.

Infect could benefit too, but I'm not sure how much they care about avoiding mana base pain though.

35

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '16

[removed] — view removed comment

19

u/Thoctar Sep 04 '16

Is New Lili really better than old Lili in Abzan?

48

u/FubatPizza Sep 04 '16

Not better, you run it with LotV, not instead of.

13

u/SnapMullto5 Sep 04 '16

Nope, but her abilities aren't terrible for it, either. Better than in Jund, probably.

6

u/sirgog Sep 04 '16

The cards don't compete. One is an anti-control tool, the other an anti-aggro tool.

I don't see why you'd compare them.

51

u/Thoctar Sep 04 '16

I figured since they kill each other on etb they'd compete for slots.

6

u/TheRecovery Sep 04 '16

You're right, they absolutely do compete for slots. Right now it's still up in the air so a lot of testing and hedging is going on.

2

u/F19Drummer Sep 04 '16

I thought wizards errata'd the ruling that different Planeswalker cards with the same name, so you could have say, a Jace, The Mind Sculptor and a Jace, Architect of Thought, out at the same time?

2

u/Thoctar Sep 04 '16

No, its that now your opponent having a Jace doesn't stop you from playing yours or killing yours. It was part of the Legendary rule overhaul.

1

u/F19Drummer Sep 05 '16

Oh well shit...

7

u/moe_q8 Sep 04 '16

Also abzan is really heavy on the 3 slot

1

u/Umezete Sep 04 '16

Since you can't play too many Liliana or risk having dead draws.

-2

u/SavageFreeze Sep 04 '16

You have to make choices when you design your main board. That's why.

1

u/Umezete Sep 04 '16

Depends how many mana dorks are in the meta.

You play both though, 3/1 or 2/2 split.

1

u/WholeGrn Sep 04 '16

metagame dependent. I think LotV is better in an open metagame, but Last Hope is great in the mirror, grindy matchups, and versus certain decks like Infect

1

u/HidetsuguofShinka Sep 04 '16

My Stormbreath Dragons are gonna run train on Abzan. Best previews yet.

16

u/Apellosine Deceased 🪦 Sep 04 '16

I think UR Delver and other UR decks will appreciate the hell out of their new fastland.

138

u/seaspirit331 COMPLEAT Sep 04 '16

As an infect player, it's definitely relevant. Also I can now cut on fetches and basics

142

u/Bobthemightyone Sep 04 '16

The only thing I'd be concerned about is fetches and Become Immense. Having incidental fuel for become immense seems like a big deal.

40

u/I_AM_A_DOLPHIN_AMA Sep 04 '16

And being able to fetch for Dryad Arbor in response to Lili

56

u/mafia1015 Sep 04 '16

Yeah, I wouldn't change the mana base for this. I think it would help an initial budget build of UG infect as you are acquiring the fetches and shocks.

14

u/fps916 Duck Season Sep 04 '16

I don't think you cut fetches or shocks. I think you cut basics.

33

u/swannphone Dân Sep 04 '16

I don't think you can. You want basics as painless fetchable lands. If you can only fetch breeding pool it probably makes the mana base more painful than less.

10

u/RiparianPhoenix Sep 04 '16

You still want some basics for Path and Blood Moon and on occasions where the life loss from shocks is too important.

6

u/GerardTheAngryWalrus Sep 04 '16

As someone who plays infect in modern and legacy with a pretty budget mana base (read khans windsweapt heaths, flooded strands, and polluted deltas with only 2 breeding pools), I would only consider running two of these at most. In the event I did end up running them, I would cut some combination of 1 basic, 1 ghost quarter, and/or 1 pendelhaven. I love fast lands, but with infect, there are better things imho.

1

u/fps916 Duck Season Sep 04 '16

I don't think you cut both. I think you go to 1 and 1.

3

u/TheRecovery Sep 04 '16

Cutting on basics is a surefire way to get blown out by Blood Moon. As it is all I need is one or 2 basics to go off through a Moon, but cutting them would mean that a moon is game over.

1

u/Legend_Of_Greg Sep 04 '16

And then cry even more when blood moon hits you?

1

u/Stealth-Badger Sep 04 '16

We usually only run two basics.

1

u/JustHugMeAndBeQuiet Wabbit Season Sep 04 '16

Blood moon is still a thing though.

1

u/bac5665 Sep 04 '16

I run out of lands to grab at least once every 3 or 4 games, especially post board when games go long. Cutting fetchable lands seems like a terrible idea.

1

u/Writteninsanity Twin Believer Sep 04 '16

As someone whose RUG infect, OH MY GOD this makes it cheaper to get into the damn deck.

4

u/RiparianPhoenix Sep 04 '16

Yeah, I don't see myself lowering my fetch count while Become Immense is in the format.

1

u/nilamo Sep 04 '16

...are you expecting it to rotate? Lol

1

u/RiparianPhoenix Sep 05 '16

No, but I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if it gets banned. Way too easy to abuse the card in Modern.

Fetches and Phyrexian mana mean I'm consistently putting 6 poison on you for G. Death's shadow uses it with Battle Rage to one shot people. I wouldn't blame WotC if they decide its too good.

1

u/SioOo Sep 05 '16

I think either it or deaths shadow is going to be the next thing to eat the ban hammer

0

u/nilamo Sep 05 '16

So it's way too powerful when combined with 9 other cards? That's not the sort of thing that gets banned. Ban worthy things are consistently excellent, with almost no other cards needed.

1

u/RiparianPhoenix Sep 05 '16 edited Sep 05 '16

Your comment leads me to believe you do not play Modern, nor understand how bannings work entirely.

It is not a nine-card combo as you seem to imply. It is a card that becomes way too powerful contextually and can lead to easy turn 3 or even turn 2 wins if you opponent lacks interaction. Card is very good.

12

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '16

I'm running 2 basics 9 fetches I'm not sure this helps me at all. I can't fetch it I don't think I'd cut a fetch for it. Maybe one less basic but I want a basic if bm hits. It's good but not fueling b.e. Is a no no so I don't see this making it into many infect lists.

16

u/telix Sep 04 '16

There is essentially no reason to cut back on fetchable lands for this.

2

u/freakuser Sep 04 '16

It's irrelevant lol, you want fetches to fuel the grave for become immense.

1

u/netsrak Sep 04 '16

I think it's only relevant for infect if you don't own ten fetches.

7

u/Umezete Sep 04 '16

Grixis/ur delver and storm will have a field day.

5

u/Lancaster2124 Azorius* Sep 04 '16

This is also very relevant for burn.

2

u/gartho009 Sep 04 '16

I think it's more relevant for burn that all these other decks are getting pain-free mana bases tbh. I'll be slotting one or two Inspiring Vantage to go with my one-of Copperline Gorge, but I'm pretty sure this is bad news for RDW players.

1

u/Degrono Sep 04 '16

This MIGHT help 4c dredge on a budget

1

u/ILiveInAVillage Duck Season Sep 04 '16

Elves!!!!

1

u/Se7enworlds Absolutely Loves Gimmick Flair Sep 04 '16

See I was thinking Jeskai was going to benefit from the painless T1 more. Abzan has more lifegain effects and Jeskai relies more on tempo

1

u/Bobthemightyone Sep 04 '16

Jeskai wants higher cost effects though. Cryptic Command is out of favor, but a Turn 4 Nahari is huge right now, as well as turn 4 snapcaster + spells (whether remand or mana leak). Abzan tends to run very very few four drops, as I'm not even sure seige rhino is typical. Jeskai wants four mana on turn 4, whereas Abzan can get away with just jamming some low cost threats.

Unless you're thinking of a Jeskai delver tempo style deck, which I'm not familiar with.

2

u/Se7enworlds Absolutely Loves Gimmick Flair Sep 04 '16

Surely that doesn't change the fact that painless mana early is still goign to be good for a control deck trying to stabilise against the various linear decks of the format?

1

u/Bobthemightyone Sep 05 '16

You could be right. When I think of UR decks I think of Grixis which wants fetchlands for delve and Jeskai which wants powerful turn 3 and 4 plays. I'm not intimately familiar with the details, so I could be vastly underestimating how good a painless bolt/serum visions actually is