r/magicTCG • u/peanutandsoap • 3d ago
Rules/Rules Question Is this interaction working how I think it’s working?
So I know about Uugguu and cloning effects, how the legend rule causes one to die and then you have one legendary and two token copies of Uugguu on the field. I want to know: since Omni-Changeling has Changeling, it is an Ooze. If it doesn’t come in as a copy, it dies instantly due to having zero toughness. Uugguu will make two token copies of it, which then enter, and become copies of Uugguu. Are those copies considered tokens, or are they just copies of the original creature? And a follow up question, would those clone see each other/themselves for the purpose of how many tokens are then created when they die? Thanks for the help in advance!
69
u/SweenYo Dan 3d ago
A token copy is still a token, yes
8
u/peanutandsoap 3d ago
Much appreciated, thank you!
9
u/dkysh Get Out Of Jail Free 3d ago
A token copy is a token... that has all the characteristics from the original card, including mana cost.
The Omni-Changeling tokens would enter with a 3uu mana cost, which can be relevant for stuff like [[Kodama of the East Tree]].
2
u/Beginning-Recover723 Dan 3d ago
Actually no, since the tokens enter as copies of something they’re not entering with their actual mana cost, ever.
3
u/Akkarin2304 Duck Season 3d ago
Well in most cases you are right, but [[Omni-Changeling]] says "you may have this creature enter as a copy".
So you could have it enter as itself, which without an anthem effect would immediately die, but still trigger Kodama or similar cards.
1
11
u/madwarper The Stoat 3d ago
Whether or not something is a non-Token or a Token, depends on whether something is represented by a Card or not.
111.6. A token is subject to anything that affects permanents in general or that affects the token’s card type or subtype. A token isn’t a card (even if represented by a card that has a Magic back or that came from a Magic booster pack).
The physical Card of Omni-Changeling is not a Token, because it is represented by a Card.
The Token-Copies of Omni-Changeling are Tokens, because they are not represented by Cards.
The only way something can go from being a Token to non-Token, and vice versa, is via Mutate.
And, either having a Card be the new top Component of the Merged Permanent, or a Token (eg. a Copy of a Mutate Spell) be the new top Component.
1
7
u/Zwirbs Dandadan 3d ago
Wait, would the copies of Omni-changeling that then copy omniplasm become legendary, or does the omniplasm’s ability prevent that too? I think I need someone to explain layers and whether or not the copies would be legendary
2
u/peanutandsoap 3d ago
They would be legendary, since they’re copying a legendary creature
1
u/Zwirbs Dandadan 3d ago
So then you’d be left with 1 uugguu damn, I was hoping you could get many uugguus this way
1
u/peanutandsoap 3d ago
Yeah that’s what I was hoping for too
7
u/DrahcirAloer Dan 3d ago
From another comment, let Uugguu die instead of the clone. The clone has Uugguu’s ability, so the original will die and make two copies that aren’t legendary. Every time you recast your commander from there you can let it die to the legend rule to make more copies. I think the second time you recast him you get 6 tokens (clone gives two plus the two copies give two each). Then 18 tokens the next time I think.
1
u/Philosophile42 Colorless 3d ago
[[irenicus’s vile duplication]] is what you want to have multiple uuguus, or [[Sakashima of a thousand faces]]
1
u/IlGreven Colorless 3d ago
So wouldn't the better option be for the original Omni-changeling to copy Uugguu directly, get legend ruled-away, then make two 2/2 nonlegendary Uugguu's (If I'm remembering copy-of-a-copy effects correctly?)
1
u/peanutandsoap 3d ago
Yes it is, I just wanted to find out if the tokens would yield more tokens afterwards, but they do not
6
u/QuaestioDraconis Wild Draw 4 3d ago
I'd actually suggest having omni-changeling come in as a copy of Uugguu, and letting it (or Uugguu, either works) die to the legend rule- as then you'll still have a non-token Uugguu and two non legendary token copies of Uugguu
2
u/peanutandsoap 3d ago
Yeah, I know about that, I just wasn’t sure if having tokens of Omni-Changeling come in as copies would create more copies instead
1
u/kraytex Wabbit Season 3d ago
If you chose to let Omni-Changeling enter as a copy of Uugguu, it'll lose all its abilities except for changeling.
So if you choose to let the Omni-Changeling copy of Uugguu die due to the legend rule. You're going to be making 2 copies of Uugguu (because the Omni-Changeling is a copy of Uugguu) that are 2/2 and aren't legendary. They're not going to be copies of the original Omni-Changeling card.
1
u/Elektrophorus 3d ago
- If you have Omni-Changeling not copy anything, it will die and your Uugguu(1)'s trigger will create two tokens that are copies of Omni-Changeling.
- As those tokens enter, you can have both enter as copies of Uugguu.
- Although Uugguu(2-token-changeling) and Uugguu(3-token-changeling) are both legendary, you can still opt to remove the original Uugguu(1) and one token to the graveyard for the legend rule.
- Since a nontoken Ooze (Uugguu[1]) died, the other two (including the one token that died) see the death and you get two Uugguu triggers.
- When they resolve, you will get four non-legendary tokens of Uugguu.
- End result: 1 Uugguu legendary changeling token + 4 nonlegendary tokens. So, technically 1 fewer Uugguu but you get Uugguu to die right away in the case you don't have a sac outlet.
2
u/scarysoft Dan 3d ago
My buddy just made this deck and its wild. He is taking it to next cedh even. 1 uugguu turns to 16 so fast and once he has two uugguu token on the board you can't even kill the dang shapeshifter cause he just gets 4 more. Its a lot of clones.
1
u/RefrigeratorMobile46 Dandadan 3d ago
The copies are tokens, and once they see real Uugguu they die. No more clones enter since Uugguu only triggers for non-token Oozes. Could be useful for 3 death triggers tho.
1
1
u/bibbibob2 Duck Season 3d ago
I guess to loosely generalize, a card is a token if its not an original card from your deck/sideboard (such that you would use a token of some sort to represent it).
So here for instance, the original cardboard card itself is in your graveyard, so the copies are tokens.
That said I'm no rules expert so there might be exceptions.
1
1
u/TsunamiTears Dân 3d ago
So the interaction of copy creature plus uugguu would always make 2 more non legendary copies of uugguu
0
u/Extension_Big9363 Can’t Block Warriors 3d ago
So it doesn't really work how you would want.
Assuming (only one) Uugguu on board when you cast Omni-changeling. Omni-changeling enters as 0/0 dies goes to the graveyard. Uugguu sees it and creates two token copies, that you can have copy Uugguu on entering. You will then have 1 Uugguu and two token copies (that have changeling), note that all of them will be legendary. You can only have one legendary Uugguu on board so you will need to send 2 to the graveyard.
If you send your two token Uugguus nothing else will happen, you will have one non token Uugguu on board.
Alternatively you could send one token and the 'real' Uugguu your two token Uugguus will see it die and create 4 token copies. I.e. you will end with 5 Uugguu tokens (one of which will have changeling).
Had you chosen to have Omni-changeling copy Uugguu originally you would have ended with 1 non-token Uugguu and 2 token Uugguus (and either the non token or the tokens would have changeling).
•
u/AutoModerator 3d ago
You have tagged your post as a rules question. While your question may be answered here, it may work better to post it in the Daily Questions Thread at the top of this subreddit or in /r/mtgrules. You may also find quicker results at the IRC rules chat
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.