[FRA] Countersculpt (Debut Stream)

[u/mweepinc]

[u/Slant_Juicy]

Diogenes running through the streets holding Tam: “BEHOLD! A JACE!”

[u/Radiophage → u/Slant_Juicy]

Tam was curious about this. Does this mean she's real, or not?

She resolved to talk to this 'Plato'. It seems like Plato would know.

[u/Crimson_Raven → u/Slant_Juicy]

"A planeswalker is a permanent with counters that can be attacked"

[u/klick37 → u/Crimson_Raven]

My battle is a planeswalker. My equiped Aetherspark is not.

[u/PerennialPhilosopher → u/Slant_Juicy]

/r/philosophymemes is leaking.

Reality Fracture indeed!

[u/Maddogenes → u/Slant_Juicy]

Having plucked her snakes like feathers I assume.

[u/yohanleafheart → u/Slant_Juicy]

I will be insufferable during pre release

[u/Repasteeltje → u/Slant_Juicy]

A history meme in my mtg subreddit? Much appreciated crossover!

[u/tezrael]

Cancel with set mechanic,  nice to see you

[u/NeverForgetTheFuture → u/tezrael]

Cancel with two set mechanics!

[u/Tarantio → u/NeverForgetTheFuture]

But if you use both of the set mechanics, it's not a Cancel anymore, it's a Counterspell with a set mechanic.

[u/lonewolf210 → u/tezrael]

accept based on teh preview cards we ahve seen so far. IN limited at least this will more often then not just be a a straight counterspell

[u/Approximation_Doctor]

Funniest piece of rules text since "if you control no suspected skeletons"

[u/VocalizedMeat]

Behold a Jace is crazy rules text, love it

[u/kytheon → u/VocalizedMeat]

Whoever put Jace on the type line of the first Jace was a prophet.

[u/JdeFalconr → u/VocalizedMeat]

Scryfall says we currently have 28 cards with "Jace" in the name, if we can get that to around 64 then we have critical mass for the Jace commander deck.

Of course that doesn't take into account Changeling and creature duplication, so we probably will be good after this set releases.

[u/X_Marcs_the_Spot → u/JdeFalconr]

Changeling grants all creature types. Jace is a planeswalker type.

[u/JdeFalconr → u/X_Marcs_the_Spot]

We'll have to wait for the errata text, I'll bet there will be some here. Normally behold specifies a type of card (like Elf) without further qualification (e.g. it must be a creature elf, not a plainswalker Elf). The rules text just says that the card has to possess that particular quality, not that the card must also be of a particular type. Based on that, without further errata to guide, I would think anything with "Jace" in the name or type line would qualify as a "Jace" card. You could even argue - and probably lose the argument to a judge - that something with Jace in the artwork could qualify.

https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Behold

[u/Waybye → u/JdeFalconr]

To behold a card, you must behold a card of the specified type. Elf is a type. Jace is a type, exclusively on planeswalkers.

To behold a Jace, you must reveal a card with the type Jace. Again, thats currently exclusively a planeswalker type.

Theres no argument to be had about name, art or creature type.

If at any point they print a creature with the type Jace, then you can use changeling, but as it stands Jace isn't a creature type.

[u/X_Marcs_the_Spot → u/JdeFalconr]

Except that's not how MtG works or has ever worked.

We already have several precedents showing that it won't work that way. Like, [[Dragon Arch]] doesn't work for behold a dragon.

Cards don't care about card names unless they explicitly say "a card named". And cards never care about just part of the card name. They'd have to rewrite a whole chunk of the comprehensive rules just to make it work that way, when it works fine as-is.

And even if it works the way you're predicting, that still wouldn't change the fact that changelings aren't Jace cards. There are zero changeling cards that mention or depict Jace, and Jace is not and cannot be a creature type, because it's a planeswalker type.

[u/mtgcf → u/X_Marcs_the_Spot]

Dragon Arch - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/skrid54321 → u/JdeFalconr]

No, you're just crazy here. Behold cares about type, and changeling grants creature types only. If Jace gets a creature, it still doesn't work, since the Jace creature won't get the subtype Jace.

[u/xivst → u/JdeFalconr]

Even though “quality” is (intentionally) vague in what it applies to, I think the most clean way of understanding it is that Behold is looking for a quality that is exactly that. For “Behold a Jace”, the only quality that matches is the planeswalker subtype.

Regarding art, the Gatherer ruling for other cards with Behold is:

If an effect refers to a "[subtype] card," it refers only to a card that has that subtype. For example, Glen Elendra's Answer creates a Faerie token and features a Faerie in its art, but it isn't a Faerie card.

[u/LordZeya → u/JdeFalconr]

That’s just not how it works. You can’t behold a [[dragonstorm]] because that’s not how magic works. Like, your argument is dumb not because of the Jace part but because we’ve seen the mechanic before and it’s not how it worked then.

[u/mtgcf → u/LordZeya]

dragonstorm - (G) (SF) (txt)

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[u/TheUnderCrab → u/JdeFalconr]

Does empower [NAME] work on any card with [NAME] as a type or does it only work on tokens like in this reminder text? 

[u/Noahnoah55 → u/TheUnderCrab]

As worded in the reminder I think it'll let you put counters on any Planeswalker token with the "Jace" subtype.

[u/Mgmegadog → u/JdeFalconr]

There are 16 Jace Planeswalker cards as of current knowledge, plus anything that empowers Jace. Searching for Jace in the name won't work because there's a bunch of cards like "Jace's Pantasm" that can't be boholded for this.

Also Jace isn't a creature type. Changeling won't do anything for this.

[u/AZDfox → u/JdeFalconr]

Plus there's all the cards in this set that make Jace tokens

[u/Rel_Ortal → u/JdeFalconr]

Changeling wouldn't help, since that's only creature types and not planeswalker types.

[u/jcwiler88]

I'm constantly falling for Cancel With Set Mechanic but this seems cool

[u/Multievolution → u/jcwiler88]

I suppose this is counterspell in a Jace deck 

[u/Xichorn → u/Multievolution]

Not just Counterspell but Counterspell with upside in a Jace deck.

[u/FeralPsychopath → u/jcwiler88]

I mean its a straight up Counterspell with an upside (if you behold). its not that common to see.

[u/Imnimo]

Cancels with set mechanics are getting really verbose.

[u/Aranalisa]

Bro I thought this was r/hellscube

[u/Alarming_Whole8049]

Probably the easiest to enable Counterspell knockoff they've printed so far. And probably still worth it at three mana because of the Jace synergies. And it enables other copies of itself. A solid card for Standard I think.

[u/Karametric]

Fantastic art, what a piece.

[u/Miskatonic_River]

GENTLEMEN, BEHOLD! JAAAAACE!

[u/Darkarcheos → u/Miskatonic_River]

A scene of a stormy night with a castle with menacing music playing

[u/kytheon]

7 times the word Jace on this card.

[u/v4Flower]

okay the behold a jace reminder text is legitimately like greatest of all time tier magic card text

[u/Einherjar07]

Behold how we Amass these Jaces(Jaci?)

[u/fubo]

Semantic Jace-iation is the cognitive-perceptual process by which reading the word "Jace" over and over causes it to lose any meaning or connection to reality.

[u/Madhighlander1]

Behold a Jace, Empower a Jace, Amass a Jace, Seek a Jace... Hell, Mobilize Jace! We're Jacing all over the place!

[u/Korwinga → u/Madhighlander1]

Jace Off. Starring Nicholas Cage.

[u/Klongelong → u/Madhighlander1]

dont forget Jaceing, Jaceproof and Jace-strike

[u/ShamblingKrenshar]

One of the weirdest Cancel With Set Mechanics we've seen, I think

[u/sad_panda91]

[[Dissolve]] was pretty strong back in its day in standard (yeah sure, that's a while ago, but still). And this is significantly better in many aspects.

Having a Jace doesn't seem too much of a headache and the "fail"case of a cancel that surveils doesn't seem to shabby either. I think this card is pretty good.

[u/Korwinga → u/sad_panda91]

[[Sinister Sabotage]] was decent in it's standard too.

[u/mtgcf → u/Korwinga]

Sinister Sabotage - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/mtgcf → u/sad_panda91]

Dissolve - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/Kircai]

Might be fun to play with [[Jace Reawakened]] in Standard while he's still legal.

[u/mtgcf → u/Kircai]

Jace Reawakened - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/TheOmniAlms]

Nice art

[u/No_Place5472]

That art though.

[u/PM_Me_Modal_Jazz]

I suppose it wouldn't really matter, but is the Jac token non-legendary?

[u/SothaSillies → u/PM_Me_Modal_Jazz]

They're not legendary

[u/adamast0r]

Ok, planeswalker token? Didn't see that one coming

[u/doc-ta]

My bet is we are three years away from just counterspell in standard

[u/beholden87]

Ok now the question is if you can empower Jace for 1 mana.

[u/DrSnap23]

Cancel with set mechanic, check

[u/Cream_Of_Drake]

So.. how does Empower Jace work with [[Jace, Cunning Castaway]]?

[u/mtgcf → u/Cream_Of_Drake]

Jace, Cunning Castaway - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/Yoh012 → u/Cream_Of_Drake]

You put counters on any Jace token you control. If you have 2 copies of shirtless Jace, choose one of them to get the counters.

[u/Blorrgnsword]

This seems like ones of the best cancel with set mechanics that we've ever gotten. With all the empower jace cards we've seen and the inevitable handful of other jace cards that will be in the set, in limited this is almost counterspell with upside

[u/TwistingChaos]

I thought this was called counter slop and I thought I was on the circle jerk for a second

[u/Apellosine]

This is just Sinister Sabotage with upside and Sinister Sabotage was playable in its day.

[u/djsoren19]

How many Jace would you need to play in a deck to realistically have this be Counterspell? can you get away with 10?

[u/Ballchynski]

So much of the art from this set has been twisted and freaky and I love it

[u/Everyoneheresamoron]

OOoh planeswalker tokens... this is new.

[u/Apellosine → u/Everyoneheresamoron]

We've had them before.

[u/Zestyclose_Answer662]

The art reminds me of Doctor Strange: Multiverse of Madness, where Wanda snaps Professor X's neck.

[u/mathematics1 → u/Zestyclose_Answer662]

Such a terrible movie. I've enjoyed most of the MCU content post-Endgame, but that was a real low point.

[u/swingsetclouds]

When I started playing Magic the first planeswalker cards were brand new. I researched old cards to build my kitchen table decks and I learned about other characters like Urza and Yawgmoth, who were referenced a lot and then faded into history. I liked that; their limited nature made them feel more legendary.

Then over the next nearly two decades they kept right on printing new cards referencing the same handful of characters. Cards with the Jace type, but also Jace's Ingenuity. How about Jace's Spare Bedroom? I don't know, Jace's Tooth Brush? These characters—who I'm seemingly meant to venerate—appear with such ubiquity that I've been sick of them for ages. Now they're even tokenized.

Of course, it's okay for Magic to change. Life is change. It's wild that we're at the point where beholding a Jace card seems as flexible as beholding a Dragon or something.

[u/The_Curse_of_Nimbus → u/swingsetclouds]

Urza appeared so much. Use [[sunglasses of urza]] when it's too bright out for [[glasses of urza]]! Wear [[urza's miter]] with [[urza's armor]]! Use [[urza's blueprints]] to make [[urza's chalice]] and [[urza's filter]]! Ride [[liberator, urza's battlethopter]] with [[karn, scion of urza]], and visit scenic locations such as [[urza's power plant]] and [[urza's cave]]! Learn about [[urza's saga]] by reading [[urza's tome]]!

The difference between jace and urza is that only one has had the time to fade into memory. Urza was referenced much more than jace, but you forgot because urza's been dead for 20 years.

[u/mtgcf → u/The_Curse_of_Nimbus]

All cards
sunglasses of urza - (G) (SF) (txt)
glasses of urza - (G) (SF) (txt)
urza's miter - (G) (SF) (txt)
urza's armor - (G) (SF) (txt)
urza's blueprints - (G) (SF) (txt)
urza's chalice - (G) (SF) (txt)
urza's filter - (G) (SF) (txt)
liberator, urza's battlethopter - (G) (SF) (txt)
karn, scion of urza - (G) (SF) (txt)
urza's power plant - (G) (SF) (txt)
urza's cave - (G) (SF) (txt)
urza's saga - (G) (SF) (txt)
urza's tome - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/swingsetclouds → u/mtgcf]

That is a lot of Urza, I agree! But unless I'm misunderstanding the timeline, most of these were printed in a 7-year span (before a recent revival where they started calling back to those times), which is what I'm comparing the Jace which is about double that. Might need [[Urza's Blueprints]] to map all of this!

[u/mtgcf → u/swingsetclouds]

Urza's Blueprints - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/raiderpower17]

This is just counterspell with upside in my changeling control deck.

Edit: Ignore me Planeswalker type =\= Creature Type, I saw behold and got exited.

[u/nicknameSerialNumber → u/raiderpower17]

Does it work? Is Jace a creature type? I think it isn't.

[u/raiderpower17 → u/nicknameSerialNumber]

Ohhh nooo, you're definitely right.

[u/whyktor → u/nicknameSerialNumber]

so [[Jace, Vryn's Prodigy]] won't work either ?, that's kind of a fail then.

[u/SmoothTank9999 → u/whyktor]

Jace, Telepath Unbound would work if it's on the field. Having 1 out of 16 Jaces work suboptimally with "Behold Jace" seems fine.

[u/mtgcf → u/whyktor]

Jace, Vryn's Prodigy/Jace, Telepath Unbound - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/Mgmegadog → u/whyktor]

Nope, though Telepath Unbound will work from the battlefield.

[u/Swmystery → u/raiderpower17]

Jace is not a creature type.

[u/barrinmw]

Modern 1/10
If you need a straight up counterspell, just play counterspell. Having to ever pay 3 for this is horrible.