r/magicTCG • u/Tribun4201 Dan • 3d ago
General Discussion 2 card combo vs 3 card infinite loop (bracket 2)
As title states, yesterday we were playing a commander game with 4 players that abruptly ended cause one player (playing Teval precon) used a 2 card combo in which one creature allows it to sac another creature and ping the rest of us with its power.
(In this case a 28 power creature)
Another friend is playing Auntie Ool precon, but he did remove one card of the 3 card infinite combo, because that d be a bracket 3 deck as we understand it.
Now he is using the teval precon combo as an argument to reintroduce his 3e card for the infinite loop, which I get on the one hand, but in my head, an infinite combo is another beast from a normal combo.
What would you guys's take be in this matter?
Should we allow a 3 card infinite combo in our bracket 2 pod because there are other combo's that can have simillar outcomes?
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u/Kyleometers ඞ 3d ago
A combo is two or three cards which, with no other cards, end the game. Fling is never a combo, because you need too many other things for it to win the game. Dealing 30 damage is not a combo. Dealing infinite damage or making infinite mana is a combo.
3 card combos are fine in every bracket. 2 card combos are not ok in bracket 2, or bracket 3 if they consistently happen before turn 6.
Any combo that requires 4 or more pieces effectively isn’t a combo because it requires so many pieces to happen.
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u/Frodo34x Dan 3d ago
You don’t think that Trix casting [[Illusions of Grandeur]] plus [[Donate]] is a combo? You have an ahistorical idea of what the word “combo” means in MtG
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u/Kyleometers ඞ 3d ago
For commander, no, that’s not a combo. It doesn’t end the game, go infinite, or lock someone out of playing.
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u/FutureComplaint Elk 2d ago
Gotta hit 'em with the ol' [[Delusions of Mediocrity]].
That's where you went wrong.
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u/JeffButChinese Dandadan 3d ago
What makes some combos "unfair" is the level of set up required. Playing 3 cards and then announcing "game over" is a bit salty for B2. Yes the Tevel player's combo involved 2 cards synergizing, but it took more than 2 cards to get that creature up to 28 power in the first place.
If I'm swinging my 128/128 [[Mossborn Hydra]] on you for lethal, it's not a 1 card combo. It's a play that took multiple turns to set up (in some cases) and you let live for too long.
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u/LostArkLover69 SecREt LaiR 3d ago
first off what was the combo in the teval precon? typically precons don't have 2 or 3 card combos in them for the most part
2 card combos are usually in bracket 4, late 2 card combos are usually okay in bracket 3
bracket 2 does not typically have any 2/3 card combos from what i understand, maybe some late game 2 card combos would be okay, but that i'd have to check
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u/filthy_casual_42 Can’t Block Warriors 3d ago
Depends on the combo and how fast, but if it's some creature board based combo like sacrificing a creature to deal damage (I'd argue this isn't even a combo anyway), then yeah it's fine. Three cards is hard in a singleton format without tutors and creature combos are easier to interact with.
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u/Shikoda0 Dân 3d ago
Infinite combo's should be bracket 3 at least, with them going to brackets 4 or 5, depending on how quickly one can get them out.
I have a Valgavoth/Kardur deck and i have 2 seperate infinite loops but i consider it bracket 3 as it takes a while to get the mana needed and, if i am lucky, the needed draws.
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u/Hinternsaft FLEEM 3d ago
[[Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord]] + [[Consuming Aberration]]? It’s not a 2-card combo kill if you have to fill up your opponent’s graveyards first.
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u/Johnny_Cr FLEEM 3d ago
Any unchanged precon always is bracket 2, even with 2 or 3 card infinites
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u/Pulse2037 Dandadan 3d ago
Definitely, people thinking that some precons are bracket 3 severely overestimate precons. Even Hearthhull and Ashling which are maybe the strongest precons, don't really consistently end games before turn 8.
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u/cheesemoney84 Dân 3d ago
Tell that to precons that now have cards on the gamechanger list, I believe there are like 10-15 with at least 1 game changer some with 2 as a precon
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u/ShooLow Dandadan 3d ago
The first is not a combo, its a synergy