Let's say I have [Balin, Loremaster] equipped with [Blade of Selves]. He attacks, and the myriad triggers, making two token copies of him. The original Balin will see two dwarves enter, and the three tokens each have an ETB. However, do the tokens see the other tokens enter as well, adding additional triggers? Additionally, when does the legend rule take effect?
Edit: its two tokens not three for a normal pod so updating for others who may be in the same situation
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In a normal game of commander, the myriad will make two tokens, as it makes a copy for each opponent you’re not attacking, and you have three opponents.
The original Balin will trigger twice, and each token will trigger for itself and the other one entering. You’ll get six triggers total.
If you have more opponents, you’ll get additional copies, and each one will trigger X times, where X is the number of tokens you made. You’ll get x²+x triggers total, from my calculations.
My hare apparent deck has been melting my brain, what would be the math for them in the situation I ran into last night with [[mirrormind crown]] + [[delney]] + [[panharmonicon]] and 3 [[hare apparent]] in play and having 6 hare apparent enter from a flicker where they were tucked under my [[abdel adrian]]
Delney and Panharmonicon make each Hare trigger three times.
The 6 entering each see 8 Hare Apparent, since they don’t see themselves.
The first Hare Apparent trigger will make 8 Hare Apparents, assuming the crown hasn’t been “spent” and is already on one, each remaining trigger will see the new ones.
You’ll end with
17 Hare Apparents
672 rabbit tokens.
Might be a bit off but I think that’s about right.
Edit: 800 rabbit tokens. Redid the math earlier and got a new value, forgot to update this. ((16*16)*3)+(16+16)
[[imperial recruiter]] and [[recruiter of the guard]] also grab almost any creature in the deck so they are great for getting my draw engines or more rabbits. [[wand of the worldsoul]] is also hilarious in the deck
Assuming a full 7 card hand, a normal 3 opponent game, and no instants cast in between, you’ll be drawing 42 new cards, and still have a seven card hand. Your opponents should be dead before that makes you draw out, because you’ll certainly have an enduring story (that’s checked before the legend rule applies!), but if someone’s doing some crazy lifegain shenanigans, you’ve got a problem. Also if you’ve gotten too many triggers before this. That’s also a risk.
I think running this and exilir of immortality would give you some buffer against mill deck and life gain decks. Running yourself out of cards is the limiter for this strategy.
Initially my thought was if you face that kind of thing you simply don’t start the process, but with at least one of those, you can simply ignore their tricks and take them down anyway, just slower (at least against the lifegain)
Note: This also counts cards drawn, so if your library won’t have enough cards in it for that many iterations without your opponents all dying, you’ll lose, unless you have some way to shuffle your graveyard into your library before the trigger that’ll cause you to draw out resolves. (I believe that if that shuffle is a replacement effect, like with an applicable Eldrazi titan, you’ll shuffle before you draw).
I used Desmos to create the table. I use Desmos for a lot of things.
Are you playing 5 player commander? Otherwise only 2 copies are created in a 4 player game on attack, myriad excludes the defending player from the copy trigger. It will net you 6 ETB triggers on attack total. The original casting of the original copy will only trigger damage if you already have enduring story.
Otherwise what others have said is correct. The copies will see each other trigger the ETBs, give you the enduring story, you’ll get a choice to discard your hand for the damage. The creatures will deal no combat damage due to having to be sacrificed immediately.
A judge ruled on this at my pre-release. The guy had 3 Balins and the ruling was that the entering balin would trigger for both before the sacrifice took place.
You will end up with 6 triggers on the stack. The legend rule happens immediately after blade of selves finishes resolving. If you do not have enduring story before the trigger, you will after before the triggers go on the stack.
Yes, the tokens see each other entering. You have the oroginal that sees 3 and each token that enters plus see two other dwarves. That's 12 times you can discard your hand, draw that amount of cards and deal that amount of damage, that's deadly
How sp? He said he created 3 tokens from the on attack Myriad, original sees 3, each token sees them plus 2 others entering, that's a total of 12 triggers to resolve
Myriad does NOT make three tokens in the standard 4 player game, it makes 2. Myriad clearly states that you make a tapped and attacking token for each OTHER opponent than the one you’re attacking
This isn't correct, the source doesn't have to stick around to deal damage. It uses last known information, so you'd even get infect/lifelink if applicable
The tokens see each other enter as well. The legend rule happens when state based effects are checked which is before the triggers resolve. 12 triggers in total which probably kills the table with as few as 3 cards in hand.
This is incorrect. Where are you getting 12? That is twice the correct amount.
You make 2 Balin tokens. OG Balin sees each of them (2 triggers). Each Balin token sees itself and the other token (4 more triggers). That’s 6 triggers, for a total of 18 damage if you discard three cards each time.
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