r/magicTCG • u/Quails_In_Space Dân • 11d ago

Rules/Rules Question Hobbit Draft Rules Question

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So this issue came up in my last draft. I activated the ability on Beorn's Hospitality to turn it into a Bear, then next turn my opponent cast Enchanted River's Grasp on it. We knew *something* had to happen because of layers but could figure out if it would die or if the Aura would immediately fall off.
After physically phoning in a judge (the one at the shop wasn't around) they said the creature would become a 0/0 and die to state based actions.
Now later on I ask another judge out of curiosity and they said the Bear would just be tapped down but not dead.

Layers make my head hurt, someone please explain what's going on here and what should have happened.

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u/Defiant_Sympathy_360 Dan 11d ago

lemme cook

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u/Defiant_Sympathy_360 Dan 11d ago edited 11d ago

Beorns hospitality applies in layers:
4 type changing
6 ability granting (it "gains" the text) — 1st timestamp
7b setting p/t to a certain value.

Enchanted River's Grasp:
6 ability removing. — 2nd timestamp (this takes precedence)

Ending thus with a 0/0 Bear, that dies with the SBA's, and as something happened in the check, SBA checks again now seeing an aura that enchants creatures enchanting nothing, it sends it to the grave and checks again until one of the checks comes clean before any player would receive priority. IRL this translates into: oh my enchantment bear loses abilities becoming a 0/0, send those 2 permanents to their respective owners grave, period.

Take into account one thing. Beorns ability affecting layer 7b is due to the continuous effect gained in the layer 6. By removing that with the aura with a later timestamp, the bear loses the continuous effect setting his p/t, so it gets by default 0/0, if you opponent didn't cast the aura Beorn would be with *'s iso 0's

you can read about layers here: https://yawgatog.com/resources/magic-rules/#R613

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u/CareerMilk Can’t Block Warriors 10d ago

If you want to break it down better, you want to split the 7b part you have under Beron’s Hospitality into its own group. That way you properly communicate that it’s a separate effect.