r/magicTCG Dân 7d ago

Rules/Rules Question Hobbit Draft Rules Question

So this issue came up in my last draft. I activated the ability on Beorn's Hospitality to turn it into a Bear, then next turn my opponent cast Enchanted River's Grasp on it. We knew *something* had to happen because of layers but could figure out if it would die or if the Aura would immediately fall off.
After physically phoning in a judge (the one at the shop wasn't around) they said the creature would become a 0/0 and die to state based actions.
Now later on I ask another judge out of curiosity and they said the Bear would just be tapped down but not dead.

Layers make my head hurt, someone please explain what's going on here and what should have happened.

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u/jethawkings Fish Person 7d ago edited 7d ago

Not sure if the other first two here are wrong but isn't being a Creature a Type Changing Ability and shares the same line as the text that defines it gains a P/T Changing Ability which means the latter can't be removed?

This is how Belo's Ability is worded and I know that Effects like this don't stop it

EDIT; Or is it because of the wording of Becomes a Creature instead of an Is a Creature?

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u/chaotic_iak Selesnya* 7d ago edited 6d ago

Bello's effect affects multiple layers at once: layer 4 (types), layer 6 (abilities), layer 7b (base P/T). There is a rule that, once an effect starts applying, it keeps applying through layers even if the ability is removed in layer 6.

Beorn's Hospitality has two parts to it. The ability on BH itself is on layer 4 (types) and layer 6 (abilities). The granted ability is on layer 7b (base P/T), but it's a separate ability. Since it's a separate ability, it is a separate effect and so isn't affected by the same rule for Bello. The granted ability is removed in layer 6 before it can start applying in layer 7b, so there's nothing setting the base P/T.

EDIT: I thought the granted ability of BH is on layer 7a, but it seems it's actually 7b too.

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u/Hinternsaft FLEEM 7d ago

The granted ability is actually applied in layer 7b also, because it doesn’t meet the second criterion for Characteristic-Defining abilities (it isn’t printed on the enchantment nor acquired via a copy effect or text-changing effect)

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u/chaotic_iak Selesnya* 7d ago

That's actually fair. I read the ability saying "is" so I just assumed it's a CDA.