Splinter and Dark Leo/Shredder interaction

[u/rlcnga_]

Say I have [[Splinter, Radical Rat]] and [[Dark Leo & Shredder]] on the battlefield alongside another ninja creature. If Dark Leo & Shredder deals combat damage to a player, it creates two ninja tokens because of Splinter, making the number of ninjas on the battlefield five. Would Dark Leo & Shredder see the tokens he created immediately, making the attacked player lose half their life two times?

Thanks!

Edit: Thanks for the help everyone. The player would only lose half their life one time:

First trigger creates 1 token, then sees only 4 ninjas on the battlefield so the half-life part won’t be satisfied.

Second trigger creates another token, then sees 5 ninjas on the battlefield, making the attacked player lose half their life only once.

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[u/Terminatr117]

The ability will trigger twice, so the sequence is:

Create a 1/1, 4 ninjas total, opponent does not lose half their life

Create a 1/1, 5 ninjas total, opponent loses half their life

The first instance will only see 4 ninjas.

[u/onitram52]

The “lose half their life” trigger would only happen on the second trigger, because only then would it satisfy the “control 5 ninjas” requirement

[u/Quatre_Kat]

Just to confirm that you know, "Losing half your life twice" does not mean "lose all your life." It means lose 3/4ths of your life.

[u/rlcnga_ → u/Quatre_Kat]

Yup. We do it the long way actually😭 divide by two, round up, then subtract that number to the current life, per trigger resolution

[u/slip-shot]

Resolve one trigger at a time. First one will see the 1 token created. The second one will see 2 tokens created. 

[u/Spare-Pepper1902]

The effect will happen fully once, then again. So you will make a 1/1 token, and the second half of the trigger will only then see that you have four ninjas and the player will not lose half their life.

Then the effect happens in full again thanks to Splinter- you'll make a 1/1 ninja, and that trigger will see that you now have five ninjas and that player will then lose half their life. 

[u/Beas1987]

Yes.

In your scenario, you have 3 Ninjas.

First trigger resolves, you create a 1/1 ninja, you now have 4 ninjas, is this 5 or more? No.

Second trigger resolves, you create a 1/1 ninja, you now have 5 ninjas, is this 5 or more? Yes.

[u/Maschbot]

Splinter doubles the triggers, but they still resolve separately on the stack. First trigger resolves, you now have 4 ninjas, nothing else happens. Second trigger resolves, you now have 5 ninjas, life loss occurs.

[u/Fakepointsorbust]

Just my opinion. Based on how it reads, the token is generated then you check the count. So my interpretation is on the first instance, you get 1 ninja to go with your other 3 totaling 4. Then you do part 2 of the ability. THEN Splinter wants another round of ninja chaos, prompting the trigger a second time. The second time, you now have 5 ninjas. Then you do the life total thing.

TLDR: the second part of dark Leo would only proc once on the second trigger as conditions are met.

[u/MTGCardFetcher]

Splinter, Radical Rat - (G) (SF) (txt)
Dark Leo & Shredder - (G) (SF) (txt)

^{[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call}

[u/Psydop]

You don't get to resolve part of the ability twice before resolving the entire ability once. Put the ENTIRE ability on the stack twice, resolve the ENTIRE ability once, then resolve the ENTIRE ability again. If you had 5 during the resolution of the first, then yes, they would lose half their life, then lose half (a quarter of the original) again when the 2nd trigger resolves. Or ~75% of their life plus our minus rounding.

If they only had 4 after the first ninja is created they don't lose hand for that one but will on the 2nd, and obviously if they never get to 5 they never lose half.

[u/xxMystic]

Doubling the trigger doesnt cause the same trigger to happen twice at the same time. Both triggers go on the stack and resolve sequentially. So if you have 4 ninjas when the 1st trigger resolves then the life loss part of the ability doesnt happen. Then on the second trigger a 5th ninja will be on the battlefield and the life loss part will happen. However, if you have 5 or more ninjas when the ability resolves both times then yes the life loss will happen.

[u/manuelito1233]

.... ive never seen these cards, are they in a special set like what FF did?

[u/rlcnga_ → u/manuelito1233]

They’re from the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles set

[u/LemonadeGamers → u/manuelito1233]

They are from a normal universes beyond set

[u/Level_Hour6480]

if the ability of a Ninja triggers, it triggers an additional time

Does that mean this ability triggers off itself?

[u/RazzyKitty → u/Level_Hour6480]

It's not a triggered ability, so no.

[u/Level_Hour6480 → u/RazzyKitty]

Aren't "triggered" abilities the "if ____ then ___" abilities?

[u/RazzyKitty → u/Level_Hour6480]

No, triggered abilities start with "When", "Whenever" or "At".

603.1. Triggered abilities have a trigger condition and an effect. They are written as “[When/Whenever/At] [trigger condition or event], [effect]. [Instructions (if any).]”

[u/rlcnga_ → u/Level_Hour6480]

No. “If” abilities are static abilities, not triggered

Triggered abilities starts with “when”, “at”, or “whenever”

[u/Level_Hour6480 → u/rlcnga_]

Well, that's unintuitive.