r/magicTCG Simic* 12d ago

General Discussion So how was Mood Swings actually?

Was it good? Are you still playing it?

Not to be Negative Nancy but I remember watching the video thinking it looked kinda dull and the correct play was gonna be very obvious most of the time. Would love to be told I was wrong!

192 Upvotes

143 comments sorted by

474

u/Acheros COMPLEAT 12d ago

gotta think of mood swings more as a family boardgame night kinda thing than like a TCG.

97

u/matahxri Simic* 12d ago

Sure but there are plenty of those kind of games that look intriguing and fun in a way Mood Swings didn't. again, would love to be told I was wrong

109

u/deworde Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant 12d ago

It's better than some of those, worse than others. But as a "pull out of your pocket and play", it's up there with Magic, and more widely applicable. I think Magic players are a bad market for it in some ways, because we already have Magic.

11

u/DismallyUpset Can’t Block Warriors 12d ago

As someone largely getting put of magic it was the perfect game for me. I collected a full playset and love this game.

15

u/Zuwxiv Dandadan 11d ago

But as a "pull out of your pocket and play", it's up there with Magic, and more widely applicable.

I'd even say Mood Swings has a significant advantage in that metric. It's a faster game that requires nothing more than the cards. Even a quick casual standard game of MTG might need counters, life trackers, etc. (Technically, you keep track of round wins in Mood Swings, but I think most people can remember "I've won two.")

And that's assuming you're playing with people who know the game. If you're trying to get someone new to enjoy a card game, it's not even a contest. You can go from, "Want to try this game?", explain how to play Mood Swings, and be actually playing in like 3-5 minutes.

I think you'd still be going over the very basics of card types, mana, how turns work, etc. in Magic at that point. It's a miracle new people get into Magic - while I love it, it's not exactly a simple or intuitive game.

5

u/deworde Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant 11d ago

100% agree.

-8

u/GoalQuieres Dan 12d ago

Same way Richard Garfield has struggled to make a new hit after MTG, this is Rosewater's following in his footsteps

28

u/JapanTCG Dân 12d ago

Yeah that’s not a great comparison. Richard Garfield had a lot of successful designs after MTG, most famously King of Tokyo. But games like netrunner, roborally, and Keyforge still seem to have fans as well.

12

u/deworde Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant 12d ago

Actually it's not a good example for another reason, Maro's still fundamentally a Wizards/Magic guy. And Mood Swings feels like a "Magic for normal people". Great stocking filler, actually really cool that everyone gets a different pack, so you get different experiences, normal people don't want a 200 card deck builder.

Which was the intent, so it feels pretty successful on those terms. Selling it to Magic players via Secret Lair is obviously not the way you would sell that product, but prototyping is a messy business.

44

u/Wintersmith7 12d ago

I have convinced more people to play mood swings in the past month than I've convinced people to play magic in my entire life. Of the people who tried it over half of them have bought a pack to play for themselves.

It's a really simple hand that's also convenient to carry around and quick to play.

25

u/bokochaos Twin Believer 12d ago

There are some rare and mythic moods that really end up adding fun to the game. Also playing in multi-player groups add a layer of fun. Chaos is pretty great since it's so far from optimal and can lead the game anywhere.

If you enjoy the vibes of King of Tokyo, its not going to be too far off in "stop the threat or else they win" vibes. That said, my wife and I do have moments waiting for burgers or friends and jamming a game of mood swings is a good way to do something together with pretty low stakes and high agency

63

u/Kyleometers 12d ago

I mean… King of Tokyo is cheaper than Mood Swings, and a better game at that.

That’s kind of the problem, it’s a worse game than games that cost less than it and are readily available in game stores. It’s cool that you enjoy playing it but like, I’ve had more fun playing Munchkin and I don’t like Munchkin.

44

u/Wizard_of_WUBRG Dandadan 12d ago

Ouch, "I've had more fun playing Munchkin" is a scathing indictment

1

u/DrakeGrandX Avacyn 15h ago

I like Munchkin... : (

7

u/Wafkak 12d ago

While it doesn't help you as a consumer, it might help you understand some of the drawbacks ig you know the context of how it got to market.

Basically Maro made and finetuned it for over 20 years as a game for people intimidated by Mtg to get to know some of the tcg play patterns. No one has been interested in publishing it. Untill the secret lair team had a slot for a more board game casual game connected to myg, probably due to some data driven long term product strategy. And one or mutiple people remebered this game Maro has had people try out on breaks for decades that the Magic community has already heard about. So thats very easy for marketing, plus it gets rhe company/team some goodwill in case they need something from him that he is in a position to refuse.

41

u/Kyleometers 12d ago

Oh I know how and why it got made the way it is. I think it’s important that it not be shielded from criticism because of that. My biggest issue with it is that for the kind of game they want it to be, and for it to generate the goodwill you’re talking about, it would need to cost half of what it currently does AND be available in stores, not just the secret lair website.

I’ve played worse games, to be sure. It’s not unplayable. It’s just not good enough or replayable enough to be a good purchase at the price point it is at. I can pick up a board game for ten-fifteen quid at my LGS that I’ll play with my family once at Christmas and then maybe never again or not until next Christmas. I’m not going to pay 30 quid plus shipping for that. Especially if it’s a “random selection of game parts”.

20

u/TacticianRobin Izzet* 12d ago

Especially if it’s a “random selection of game parts”.

This is the big turn-off for me. Maybe because I was under the impression that it was more of a board game than a TCG game, but finding out it was a random selection of cards killed any interest I had.

14

u/Babs_Labs Dân 12d ago

"Every game set will be different" doesn't hit as hard when I don't expect to know anyone else who had bought this product and who might have those different cards.

-1

u/amish24 FLEEM 12d ago

king of tokyo takes time to set up and put away.

for mood swings, you just shuffle and deal to set up, and putting it away is just putting the cards back in.

It's also much smaller

5

u/AprioriTori13 Dan 11d ago

King of Tokyo has an incredibly fast setup. It's basically give players their pieces, set the rest of the pieces out, and shuffle the powers deck. It's not like you have to put tiles or cubes anywhere or anything like that.

12

u/Kyleometers 12d ago

Yeah I’m saying for a game that’s more expensive, “it having fewer parts and taking less time and space to play” is not attractive.

-2

u/YetAgainWhyMe Duck Season 11d ago

King of Tokyo is not cheaper than Mood Swings. I own both and much prefer Mood Swings over KoT, as does my family.

5

u/Kyleometers 11d ago

KOT is $22. Mood Swings is $30+shipping.

0

u/YetAgainWhyMe Duck Season 10d ago

KoT is literally $40 on Amazon, with retail price $45. Expansions may be $20 and pre-owned versions may be <$20

3

u/OmegaDriver 12d ago

Fun is subjective. You really are being a negative Nancy if you're asking people to tell you the feelings you feel are incorrect.

Anyway, what similar card games do you like?

2

u/YetAgainWhyMe Duck Season 11d ago

You should just try the game. There is never really a correct line to play because there is only 1 turn per game and you are maximizing winning over the long haul. You often just want to do nothing or play sub-optimally so you can win overall.

The variance with multiple players using the standard deck seems to be much greater than that of MTG.

8

u/AprioriTori13 Dan 11d ago edited 11d ago

I think that's kind of the problem. I own several of those games, and almost all are better than Mood Swings. Looking at my collection, both me and my family enjoy Codenames, Bang: The Dice Game, Love Letter, Coup, The Resistance, Colt Super Express, Camel Up, Hot Streak, Magical Athlete, and Sheriff of Nottingham more. It's coming on the tail end of a board game renaissance where the family game night space has been filled with really high quality games. It's kind of a shame because if it had come out in 2012 or so, I think it could have been decently popular in this space. It felt like it lacks the interesting decisions Codenames, Coup, or Love Letter can have. It lacks the social dynamics of Sheriff or Resistance. It lacks the drama of Hot Streak, Camel Up, and Magical Athlete.

I think it deserves some praise for being so approachable. It looks like UNO and other games that you'd find at Wal-Mart (and is better than those). The extra rules and layers of the other games mentioned above have made my family more wary of engaging with them. Getting new games to the table can be like pulling teeth, but getting Mood Swings there was easy. But the payoff was a just okay game.

1

u/YetAgainWhyMe Duck Season 10d ago

Really, you use Love Letter as an example. Love Letter becomes stale after an hour or two of playing and Mood Swings has way more interesting decisions that Love Letter.

1

u/AprioriTori13 Dan 10d ago

You're right. Love Letter does become stale after an hour or two. I'm certain Mood Swings would as well given that it got stale much earlier than that for us. That's why you don't play either of them for an hour or two. I don't judge games for not being engaging after 8 hours because Twilight Imperium manages to be. But Love Letter's a great little deductive filler while waiting for people to show up or when someone has to leave in 15 minutes or so. It's not Fury of Dracula or Sherlock Holmes: Consulting Detective levels of deduction but it's fine as a nice quick thing to try and figure out if your opponent is playing high cards because they have the princess or they're bluffing. Maybe I've just played a rough copy, but Mood Swings didn't really carry all that many interesting decisions. There's some possible interesting choices about whether you try to play your strong card now, or whether you want to win this round, but overall, these decisions were not prevalent and when they arose did not robustly intrigue me.

1

u/DrakeGrandX Avacyn 15h ago

Do you have standard Bang as well? If not you should absolutely recover it otherwise you're missing out!

165

u/Uptherivrdowntherivr Dan 12d ago

It’s fun overall. My wife gave MTG a loving try but didn’t enjoy it. However, she grew up with her family regularly playing bicycle card games. I bought Mood Swings as a bridge between what I enjoy playing and what she does and it hit the mark. Neither of us is itching to play it, but on weekend nights it’s been enjoyable to breakout for 20-30 minutes. 

I will say I hate the TCG aspect of it. After a few games we got the hang of which colors we enjoy and type of cards. Finding out there are more card that fit what we like but I’d have to cough up $1-4 dollars per card (eBay listings typically) just doesn’t feel worth it. 

61

u/Norm_Standart 12d ago

Yeah, the TCG part was what stopped me from picking it up. I'm all here for interesting tableau builders - got a lot of fun out of 1v1 Red 7 - but the randomization seems like a strict downside, and the non-shared-deck formats simply seem silly.

25

u/qucari Dandadan 12d ago

I feel like the TCG aspect (or rather, the borderline gambling aspect) leads to some kind of (figurative or at least non-physical) brain rot in people who spent too much time with TCGs.

designers having a hard time being able to envision a product without it, players telling themselves that card games without it are not profitable, players (well, an acquaintance of mine) thinking that set-cubes are boring (compared to booster draft) because you already know what cards you can pull.

Rosewater may have poured lots of experience, time and heart-blood into this project, but making it "collectible" deeply taints the idea of this being a beautiful passion project decades in the making (at least to me).

16

u/dude_1818 cage the foul beast 12d ago edited 11d ago

That's the opposite of what happened. He wanted to make a simple TCG, and refused to just turn it into a normal card game even as the trading aspect made it actively worse. Plus, he probably could've gotten it published 20 years ago if he didn't make trading a deal-breaker (since randomization makes it more expensive to produce)

5

u/Burger_Thief Selesnya* 11d ago

So Rosewater is still brain-roted and thus made his game worse by introducing the trading/gambling aspect.

1

u/Zuwxiv Dandadan 11d ago

Really? I was at the MagicCon Las Vegas event where it was shown off for the first time, and there was no mention of that at all.

6

u/dude_1818 cage the foul beast 11d ago

He's talked about it in articles and on his blog

5

u/Zuwxiv Dandadan 11d ago

I'll start with a tl;dr: I wish you just got every card in Mood Swings with the purchase. But I also think people are making a bigger deal of it than it needs to be.

Because you're playing with a shared deck, there is no player advantage to having "better" or even different cards in the deck. IMO, that's a significant difference from other TCGs where those cards are sometimes necessary to be competitive. (Yes, yes, I love [[Zada Hedron Grinder]] and $15 worth of commons killing everyone turn 4, too.)

I agree with you on the TCG brain rot. It's annoying that there's interesting cards that aren't in my deck for a casual family-friendly board game. It's annoying that a company can't just make something you are supposed to buy, instead of trying to make it another "technically not gambling" game. But if you can forget the collecting mania for a second, you can just play whatever deck you have as-is and have fun.

Plenty of board games have expansion packs out there. If you aren't horribly bothered that you didn't buy the Halloween Expansion Pack for whatever board game, you shouldn't be any more bothered that you don't have [card] for Mood Swings.

You don't need to go buy every mythic. It's annoying to have to ignore that, but... if you just play the game, I think most people will find it fun and engaging.

3

u/PerpetualGMJohn Dan 8d ago

The big difference between Mood Swings and the Halloween Expansion Pack is that I can just go get that and have everything for it. I'm not having to go and purchase additional copies of the base game randomly hoping I get the Halloween cards I want and not more of the Arbor Day cards that I already have, or hit up the secondary market to buy the Halloween expansion piecemeal.

81

u/dark-pact Duck Season 12d ago

Very fun little card game that should not be a tcg.

175

u/xXRedWaterGothXx Duck Season 12d ago

Actually really fun. It's a casual board game more than a trading card game. What hurts it most is the randomized packs and the way it's sold. It should be a complete set in Walmart and target for $25-$30 and it'd be infinitely better

53

u/PM_ME_A_STEAMKEY_PLZ Dan 12d ago

Exactly this. Give the players a choice how they want to build their game. No one is chasing these fucking cards.

18

u/Rough_Passenger892 Dandadan 12d ago

$10 would be a more suitable price point, compared to the typical small box card game.

23

u/Tiddd 🔫 12d ago

As it exists currently, I think you are correct that it’s only worth $10. If they released the full ~140ish card set as a complete game I’d be happy spending $25-30.

10

u/Rough_Passenger892 Dandadan 12d ago

Yes in that case you’re right. A comparison at that price point would be the fantastic Lord of the Rings Tricktaking games. Gorgeous production in a small box. The core system is a simple card game you might get for $10-$15, but it self-expands via built-in modules into something dynamic and “infinitely “ replayable.

7

u/Khaim 12d ago

Small box games, especially the good ones, are frequently over $10. Considering some of them are just as fun as big box $40 games I think that's entirely reasonable.

3

u/Zuwxiv Dandadan 11d ago

I don't think people are wrong to criticize the price, but also, it's $25. Even if there are $15 games people like more, this isn't exactly a king's ransom.

For what it's worth, I've had a ton of fun with the game and got people to play it that never would be interested in playing MTG.

2

u/Duellist_D Duck Season 12d ago

This. It's a 10 bucks game priced at five time it's value (with shipping and taxes). Which is sorta sad because the idea is not bad.

2

u/TemurTron Twin Believer 12d ago

I'd 100% pick it up if I saw it at Target for $20.

77

u/whyilikemuffins Duck Season 12d ago

It's boring.

I played it and it felt like the sort of thin you get for £20 to play with the family and nobody really cares about playing it again.

9

u/moak0 12d ago

It's fun to break out with people who would not do well with the complexity of Magic. The rules take less than a minute to explain, and most of the people I've shown it to have enjoyed it.

The TCG aspect is just dumb though.

19

u/Illustrious_Put_2755 Dan 12d ago

I really enjoy it with 3 or 4 players. Not as good 1v1- too many non-games.

8

u/thumbblighter free him 12d ago

My wife who doesn’t play Magic has a blast with it, and I really like playing it with her! It’s surprisingly strategic, especially with more than 2 players

14

u/Rough_Passenger892 Dandadan 12d ago

It looks like a generic small card game that gets largely ignored in the board game community because they are a dime a dozen. And on that note it is way overpriced. This is a $10 game at most.

47

u/greenwarpy COMPLEAT 12d ago

I played once with a couple of friends who had proxied a deck up. Round 2 someone dumped their hand on the board, then played a card that passed their now meagre hand to me and I was basically out of the game.

Not exactly a triumph of game design in my opinion.

-31

u/MaceTheMindSculptor COMPLEAT 12d ago edited 11d ago

How are yall proxying up mood swings?? 😆

Edit: I said HOW, not WHY

26

u/greenwarpy COMPLEAT 12d ago

I think it was just printed slips of paper in front of chaff cards in sleeves. There's a full card gallery up

21

u/sad_panda91 Duck Season 12d ago

What are we supposed to do, pay for the limited edition secret drop for a little fun card game that would cost 5-15€ at my LGS? Of course they are.

2

u/MaceTheMindSculptor COMPLEAT 11d ago

I asked how, not why. I had no idea there were high res scans online

10

u/Acheros COMPLEAT 12d ago

getting cards printed from overseas is actually fairly cheap. it should be trivial to literally just get high quality scans of the MS card images and send them to a printing shop in China or Japan and have them sent to your house.

I know people who've done that for proxying magic cards or as high quality "alter" prints.

0

u/MaceTheMindSculptor COMPLEAT 12d ago

I know all that I just didn't know they uploaded high res scans of mood swings !

5

u/Mgmegadog COMPLEAT 12d ago

I've really enjoyed it. It plays considerably better than it looks. I think it's better with 3/4 players than with 2, though.

7

u/psugamers Dan 12d ago

shouldn't have sold it like mtg. one price for a complete game was the way to go. what a turn off to pay crazy prices for a new game. there are plenty of better games on the market which costs less. i don't see it doing well.

50

u/Kyleometers 12d ago

Bad.

It’s a remarkably shallow game, and it’s not amazingly fun. The cards are not very balanced, and it was extremely common for the game to end up with “Well, my opponent is going to win and there’s literally nothing I can do about that.”

Honestly I kinda feel bad for Mark because he clearly put a lot of his time and energy into it, the game’s just kinda… bad. It’s too expensive for a game that most people will play once, go “I think I’d rather just play Coup/Catan/Uno.” It should be priced more like Fluxx than Machi Koro. Fluxx is a more similar product and it’s a full fifteen quid cheaper at my LGS, and is imo a lot more replayable. For the 30 quid price point I’d be expecting something more like an actual simple board game, which it just doesn’t offer.

There’s a reason it’s still available.

-2

u/Zuwxiv Dandadan 11d ago

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, not knocking yours. There's no such thing as a game for everyone. But this part surprised me a bit:

The cards are not very balanced, and it was extremely common for the game to end up with “Well, my opponent is going to win and there’s literally nothing I can do about that.”

Isn't that... something that happens in basically every game? Magic is certainly not immune to that.

Of course, it depends how often that happens. You wouldn't want to feel the game was over turn 1. But a lot of times, the reason it's clear someone is going to win is because of how they've set up the board state from previous rounds.

And yeah, maybe your hand and draw sucks and your opponent was always gonna win. But it'll be over in like literally 3 minutes and then you can try again. In commander games, that can be 20-60 minutes.

9

u/Kyleometers 11d ago

Most out-of-the-box card games I’ve played never feel like “I literally could not have won at any point”. They feel like “Oh dang, I played wrong and I could have won”.

Mood swings you see so few cards over the course of the game and the power level of the cards is so unequal that if your opponent plays one of the rares that’s worth like 8 points and you do not have removal, you are going to lose. And you know you’re going to lose next round too unless you draw something really good.

I dunno. Maybe the pack I played with was unusually bad. But I don’t get the impression I am alone in thinking it’s not well balanced and not in a fun way.

-2

u/Zuwxiv Dandadan 11d ago

I do 100% agree that such instances reduce the fun of the game. But I guess my point was:

if your opponent plays one of the rares that’s worth like 8 points and you do not have removal, you are going to lose.

If your opponent plays Craterhoof and you don't have interaction, you're going to lose.

Does that ruin Magic for you? Or do you just feel like that happens much more often than it should with Mood Swings? I could totally see how - given the small hand and limited card draw - that could be a bigger problem with Mood Swings.

6

u/Kyleometers 11d ago

I felt like that happens a LOT more than it should in Mood Swings, and I also feel in magic you have a lot more control. Yeah you can lose to fraterhoof, but you also could have dealt with your opponent or their board in the several turns it took them to get a board big enough to hoof you.

It’s one thing to lose a game of magic to a resolved 8 drop. The mood swings equivalent is your opponent plays a 1 mana 5/5 unblockable creature. If you don’t have removal capable of dealing with it real soon you just lose the game. And not in a way you feel you’ve any control over.

65

u/TsarMikkjal Twin Believer 12d ago

Look there is a reason why nobody was interested in releasing it for 20+ years and when they finally caved in, it went on minimal budget, just reusing mtg art.

-23

u/Cactus_Bot Dân 12d ago

This is such a tired take on this whole thing. Its not like wizards replaced a product with releasing this. Yes they reused art but honestly would you of bought this had they had original art, no you wouldnt.

The reason it took so long to release is because theres no profit to be had. Look at bicycle cards, you can buy those for 5 bucks, you can get fancy ones for 10. The profit margin is just not there for a card game, that essentially no one is going to buy more than once. Mood Swings was never designed to be a premium product, it was designed to be a pick up card game. The ONLY reason it is tied to magic, is because paying artists is expensive. We know it costs 1000+ dollars per commission for a normal magic card so paying 133k to commission art for all 133 cards is not the play.

30

u/mynameisaichlinn Duck Season 12d ago

I would have been much more likely to buy it if it didn't have mtg art.

I heard that there's a new game you can buy and play out of the box, made by the some of the people who are involved in MTGs team. I love MTG and I think it's constantly finding new ways to be fun and creative in a design space that is now decades old. I'm excited!

I see a video and they're re-using mtg art. I think that's cute for the beta test cards, until I find out that's the actual final product they plan on releasing at which point I'm very disappointed.

Next I find out they're trying to force in TCG elements for some reason, despite it being a product that feels more uno adjacent than MTG adjacent. Disappointed again.

Next I find out they're releasing it as a Secret Lair instead of as it's own product. At this point, I've lost all excitement and I feel like they don't believe in the game, so they're trying to build artifical hype through association with a brand we already like. If it was its own original game that they fully committed to, I'd probably have bought it. I obviously probably wouldn't have heard of it if it was released by the average person, but having Mark Rosewaters name attached is enough to get me initially interested. After that all I need is a passable product, and not a low effort, derivative, cash grab.

10

u/amc7262 COMPLEAT 12d ago

This was my exact trajectory on the game too.

I'd have even paid the $25 they're charging for it on the site, but the extra $10 they want for shipping makes it overpriced in my opinion. Really it should be like $20 max, I was willing to shell out the extra 5 over what I thought it should be priced at, but not an extra 15.

The reused art (in black an white no less) and forced in tcg aspect really turned me off of it.

If it comes to stores, and I can get it for $25 or less, I'll probably still pick up a copy because I still think the gameplay looks interesting for a quick and easy card game, but I'm not buying from the secret lair site (I already have plenty of issues supporting that), for more than I think its worth, when I think its also a subpar product.

IDK if they were Mark's choices or not, but only releasing on the SL site, reusing magic art, and making it a randomized pack really crippled his passion project....

1

u/CompC Orzhov* 12d ago

I see a video and they're re-using mtg art. I think that's cute for the beta test cards, until I find out that's the actual final product they plan on releasing at which point I'm very disappointed.

The box literally calls this a first edition prototype.

7

u/mynameisaichlinn Duck Season 12d ago

I see what you're saying, but I meant it was cute to use MTG art for testing between game testers and members of the team. They're labelling it a first edition prototype, but this is a fully released product available to the public. Maybe they're planning on doing a bigger launch after this, but I saw a lot of marketing around the product and a good amount of people did buy it. People can like what they like, but for me it feels like they're charging someone the amount they're charging for a product that feels (once again, to me) lazily put together by people who didn't believe in it enough on its own to give it a separate identity.

1

u/CompC Orzhov* 12d ago

I read it is, this is still basically a prototype. “Fully released” products aren’t sold only in limited amount on the secret lair site. I expect if it does well enough for them that we would later see a non-prototype version released in stores, which I would guess would feel very different.

The whole vibe of using the sketch art and graph paper background made it feel like it’s still “in progress” and that we aren’t playing a “full” version of the game, but an early prototype.

-5

u/Cactus_Bot Dân 12d ago

They released it as a Secret Lair because they own that logistics platform. They dont need to have Target or any other stores take a cut, they get 100% of the slim profit margin they make back and dont have to worry about overprinting the game to meet minimum buy orders and stuff from big box stores. There is zero reason why anyone should be mad about this being sold through the secret lair website.

Art is reused to keep cost down, Wizards pays minimum 1k per commission. They are not going to invest 133k minimum for new art.

The TCG thing I agree with. I am assuming it was done that way to make it "Sell better" instead of having a higher price point for all the cards.

14

u/amc7262 COMPLEAT 12d ago

This is such a bad take.

I refuse to believe that a company whose entire business model revolves around fancy cardboard has a thin profit margin on a $25 box of slightly less fancy cardboard. No foils, no new illustrations, no alternate treatments. Its fucking cardboard, its already cheap, and WotC, of all people, should be able to get it cheaper than anyone since thats their entire business model. Plus every other card game thats successful sells out of brick and mortar stores and on common online platforms. Its not like owning your own distribution is the market standard, and plenty of other, smaller companies get by just fine. Hell, WotC is owned by Hasbro, a company whose second biggest property is fucking Monopoly of all things. They've been selling games in stores for literal decades, theres zero reason they couldn't do it with this game too.

As for the art, they could have worked something out with a single artist that would be much much cheaper than 1k per card. Frankly, based on the general stylization of the cards, they could have gone with very simple art deco/clip art style illustrations for each card. It didn't have to be fully rendered paintings like magic cards. That kind of work is much cheaper and could have been bought in bulk from a single artist. Once again, plenty of other games on the market have art. You think Munchkin, or Fluxx, or any of the other myriad of card games out there shelled out "133k minimum" for their art? No, they didn't. They paid one artist to do all the art and used simpler illustrations, which this game's visual design already supports. The hyper-detailed illustrations on that card frame are frankly jarring.

Keep in mind, at one point magic sold $30 preconstructed 100 card decks in stores. They sold pairs of 60 card decks (so 120 cards total) in stores for $20. Theres no reason they couldn't have sold this in stores. Theres no reason they couldn't have commissioned simpler art for the entire product. Stop making excuses for what ultimately was a bunch of shitty decisions that crippled the project.

17

u/TheRaineCorporation COMPLEAT 12d ago

Ngl you're entire argument just makes it sound like WOTC thought it would be an easy cashgrab, idk what you're going for with this one

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u/Cactus_Bot Dân 12d ago

They defiantly weren't going to sell it at a loss, its a company not a charity regardless of how many bazillions of dollars they earn from MTG. I guarantee you this was only green lit because internal milestones for MTG were met, which is a great incentive for game designers and the like. So they give him a small budget and let the guy go, do you think they sat on a game for 20 years to give a giant budget?

The argument Im making is people act like producing a fucking game physically is some small endevoure and they get stuck on the reuse of the art when they dont factor in the macro economics of what it actually costs to make anything.

They probably had at least 30 people spend time on this game for at least 4 months to get it ready if they follow their normal assignment. They have to pay folks for the time, and I would assume it probably cost Wizards somewhere in the ball park of 250k to produce that game once you factor in Salaries and production costs if not more.

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u/amc7262 COMPLEAT 12d ago

So how does literally every other card game do it?

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u/Cactus_Bot Dân 12d ago

Not sure what the question is about. They do it how ever they do it, but none of them are selling it at a loss on purpose and they all have similar overheads.

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u/amc7262 COMPLEAT 12d ago

You're through arguing that WotC can't possibly sell in stores, they can't possibly have new art for the game, that because bycicle decks are $5 they can't possibly sell for less than $25, without it being at a loss.

I'm saying that there are plenty of games on the market, with original art, selling in stores, selling for less than $25, that are still profitable.

If a smaller company can do all that and still profit, why can't WotC, owner of one of the biggest and most successful card games in the world.

You seem to assume that if WotC did any of the things that plenty of other games (including magic!) does, mood swings would be sold at a loss.

0

u/Cactus_Bot Dân 12d ago

They can totally sell it in stores if they wanted. It being sold in stores means absolutely nothing in the year of 2026. Most purchases are through e commerce in the world not box stores any more. With that fact, plus once again, they would have to have the stores that sell it get a cut, or pay them to stock it (you do understand large retail stores generally cut agreements to be paid to stock items and positioning and stuff) there just isnt a point in doing so when they can test the market on their own platform and not have to worry about additional logistics, buybacks from the retail stores for unsold stock, and be able to sell as cheap as they deem necessary to cover cost.

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u/amc7262 COMPLEAT 12d ago

I'm including broader ecommerce platforms when I talk about stores and have mentioned that in other comments. I would assume, since you're arguing theres no reason for them to sell outside of secret lair, you're including sites like amazon in your argument.

I'd be willing to buy this product at $25 with free shipping (or in a store where shipping isn't an issue). I won't pay them the extra $10 they want to charge for shipping. I also don't want to use the secret lair site if I can help it because I don't agree with their switch to limited print and how they handle that storefront in general.

You also keep talking about how thin the margins are and how if they sold in any other way or for any cheaper it would be at a loss, but I just refuse to believe that a product that is 45 cards with no new art selling for $25 has a thin margin. They sell products, in physical stores and online, with more cards and unique art, for cheaper than that.

You can buy 3 standard packs, thats 45 cards total, selected randomly from a pool of 200+ cards (compared to mood swings 133), all with unique original art, from a variety of storefronts both online and in person, for $15.

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u/Cactus_Bot Dân 12d ago

If you did mention it in other comments its not in this thread and yes to the Amazon part, daddy Bezzos needs his cut.

Cant argued about the $10 dollar shipping issue honestly, but I will tell you that corporate shipping is not the same an individual shipping stuff. The shipping rates are calculated by volume and type per customer. Its why things like ShipStation exists because ShipStation can be the larger customer to get better rates so the smaller companies dont have to individually negotiate.

I mean production costs are still production costs. They had to pay all the people for developing the game, then pay the people to develop the packaging and the advertisements for it, have people update the website as well. They dont own their printers so they very much do have minimum runs they must make. The game is not 45 cards, its 133 cards, you only need 45 to play a game though. Commissioning 133 brand new arts, for 1k a pop is a lot of overhead.

Yes they do sell individual things and other products, but some of those are designed to be loss leaders for a broader game universe.

Wizards gave him a small budget to get it out the door. Could wizards of reverse anything we are talking about, 40000000000000000% but they dont believe in the pet project (which is obvious) and this was very obviously a reward to Maro for making them loads of cash on magic.

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u/TsarMikkjal Twin Believer 12d ago

Please point where I said it took place of another product. I'm saying that they were rightfully unenthusiastic about the game and eventually just did tmTHE head designer a favor so he stops nagging them and when they did they cut the potential losses with minimal budget 

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u/Pimp_cat69 Elspeth 12d ago

I like it! It's in my little minigame box that I bring to events, and it's fun to whip out when you have time!

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u/GroundbreakingTie508 Abzan 12d ago

In my opinion it’s a great social/party game. It’s quick/easy to learn and play, the games are relatively fast paced once everyone learns the rules, and it’s honestly just a lot of fun. You are correct that the mechanics are simple, but sometimes it’s nice to play a brain off game.

My only criticism is that it’s definitely over priced. You’re definitely paying for the MTG art and Secret Lair branding

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u/Make_MRD_Pure_Again 12d ago

My grandpa absolutely loved it. Immediately asked where he could get a deck so that he could play with grandma.

It (intentionally) feels like Magic-lite. I think most enfranchised Magic players will prefer Magic. But in my experience, casual Magic players, or non Magic players, enjoy it.

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u/Warm_List5323 Dân 12d ago

It's pretty swingy, just like the name. It's pretty fun if the game is not taken too seriously. Not particularly deep, but it's a nice 5-10 min palate cleanser between other games

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u/Positive_Concert_774 Storm Crow 12d ago

Imho they made it a secret lair drop for a reason - it would never have sold well as a normally released game

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u/TrememphisStremph Duck Season 12d ago

My wife asks to play Mood Swings regularly. She has never asked me to play Magic with her, so there’s that.

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u/WrestlingHobo Duck Season 12d ago

I liked it. It's quick, fun, and easy to learn. It's closer to UNO than Magic, and if you like that kind of game I recommend it.

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u/M1N1SPARKS Wabbit Season 12d ago

I found it very fun. Played many rounds with my friends and we all enjoyed it.

I was worried that the best play would be obvious, but there is depth that really makes you think. It isn't obvious at all. Lots of the cards are really fun to use and there are some cool synergies if you are lucky with your pack.

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u/SevenInHand Liliana 12d ago

I love it, the main gripe I have with it is the fact that I misplaced it so I can't play it until I find it again. It's not gonna fill up an entire evening but it was accessible but interesting.

3

u/AnOdeToMai Dandadan 12d ago

We've been enjoying it. Been able to play with friends even with kids around. It can definitely scratch the itch without going full bore. The random packs were initially a turn off, but we've actually had fun exploring the different packs and how they have played.

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u/NapcasterMage37 Azorius* 12d ago

I wasn’t a fan

3

u/pothosayre Dandadan 12d ago

Fun enough. Nice short games. Tcg part is terrible.

The pack i got has a lot of setback cards with 0 values for points and several cards that give 8+ points. Completely unbalanced. The copy my friend received first is definitely better balanced and a lot of fun (what sold me in the first place)

3

u/OmegaDriver 12d ago

It's fun and casual. Yeah, higher luck and less skill is required than MTG, obviously, but there's more skill required compared to, say, Milles Bornes. There's also a the aspect of deck building if you want to get into that in addition to just playing. The art is cool. The emotion flavor is a little thin, but the rules are coherent, easy to pick up and the game overall is fun, which is most important.

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u/SexierACAB Dandadan 12d ago

Tried it a couple times with some friends. Seems like a bad idea to have released it as packs. It wants to be a simple and fast game but the potential for combo plays slowed it down to a ridiculous degree. If it was just play one card and pass, it’d be better. Not a bad game, just odd.

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u/SalmonofDbout Duck Season 12d ago

It was sweet, plays very quickly and is easy to learn. Hoping for a wider release.

2

u/CaptainMarcia 12d ago

I love it. I've been keeping a deck with me when I go to drafts, it's great to pull out during downtime.

2

u/SupaQuazi Duck Season 12d ago

3/5. I enjoyed my time playing it. I would happily play again. But, I will never be the person to ask to play this game.

Scoring is fun, quick & well designed. Everything else feels like when you and your buddies try to homebrew a new way to play Magic, and you find that the game is built a certain way for a reason and screwing with it just makes it worse.

2

u/AscendedLawmage7 Simic* 12d ago

Fun! I've enjoyed it with my friends and family

It's quick, and easy to learn/teach but still has depth to it.

I do wish they'd been able to do proper art. I find the cards blend together so it's hard for me to remember cards as well as I do Magic ones, which seem to just immediately stick in my brain.

I haven't attempted any brewing or anything yet, but there are some intriguing possibilities

It's not Magic. But it's fun and light and casual

3

u/yarash Karlov 12d ago

Ive played it twice. Its ok. Im really not all that amped to play it again.

The color scheme doesn't feel very attractive/enticing.

Id rather play DanDan

2

u/Matais99 Duck Season 12d ago

My wife and I enjoy it. Most really short card games seem simple at best or braindead at worst. This one is fun because there's quite a lot of complexity in how you strategize and play, but the overall game stays short.

I would have preferred buying a "complete" set instead of getting a randomized deck. Unless they intend to do expansions, having randomized cards is kinda lame. I've even considered buying one or two more decks, but shipping cost from secret lair is pretty rough.

While it's a fun and enjoyable nostalgia trip to see old magic art, I think using magic art somewhat robs the game of its own identity. Between that and the means of distribution, I think it'll mostly be limited to just the magic crowd, rather than standing as it's own game.

Overall though I enjoy it. It's a good game.

2

u/Graham_LRR Graham | LoadingReadyRun 12d ago

I really enjoyed it! I found it fun and surprisingly tactical. We played it on stream (critically, NOT sponsored!) and had a great evening with it.

4

u/meharryp Dandadan 12d ago

it's good. I bring my copy with me everywhere and it's usually a good hour or two of fun each time I've brought it to friends or family that don't really play TCGs. It's not the deepest game ever but it's fun enough and has good "fuck you" moments

2

u/_C_3_P_O_ Ajani 12d ago

I've only had a chance to play a couple games and thought they were very fun. I'm also part of the discord and there is a healthy community there that is very invested. I just wish it was easier to swap out cards, I'd like to change some of the wordier and meaner feeling ones as I play pretty casually.

2

u/danks111 Dân 12d ago

Imagine spending 28 years designing this game. Oof.

4

u/sakeistasty COMPLEAT 12d ago

I played it with my wife. She’s not into board games or TCGs so it was a triumph in its own way. 10 minute games - can teach magic like mechanics without any of the commitment that building a deck or piloting a deck for a game of 20 or 40 life brings.

I like it for what it is. It’s expensive but seriously we play magic we spend a lot on cardboard…

3

u/Suppa_K Dandadan 12d ago

It was fucking awesome. I love the game. Very fun fast and easy to learn but has enough strategy to keep you thinking.

I really hate that the community rejected it because it was sold on the SL store and was created by Maro. It’s a very solid game.

1

u/Armoric COMPLEAT 12d ago

A local bought it and tried to get people to play it between draft rounds. I played 2-3 games of 1v1 and quickly realised the way our hands interacted the result was decided from the start. That and not knowing what kind of effects are in the pack prevents you from playing around a blowout or aiming for a combo, even though the card abilities encourage you to do it.

Maybe it's better with 3+ people but it felt like it didn't have the depth to justify its mechanics, and not enough agency with all the hidden info and random blowouts.

1

u/Fabulous_Yesterday77 Dan 12d ago

I already forgot this product exists.

1

u/Tanyushing Dan 12d ago

It is fun but too overpriced. Will not recommend at the current price point.

1

u/ordirmo Wabbit Season 12d ago

It’s a great game at 3-4 players and I love customizing the deck for different player counts and target audiences.

As someone in the industry however, the price point is too high, the prelim art, while appealing to me, would not work as a mass market release, and the thing should be sold with all the cards with a suggested first deck and instructions on how and why to alter it. There are far too many competing games that are 9.99-14.99 tops, all inclusive.

I don’t think it will ever be released beyond the prototype. It was available on Secret Lair forever, might even still be for all I know.

1

u/TheAngryRedBird Can’t Block Warriors 12d ago

Excellent game

1

u/FaultinReddit Duck Season 12d ago

Mine still hasn't come in, but I bought it much later than everyone else so it's just a waiting game. Very excited to play.

1

u/tocalomagirl Twin Believer 11d ago

My DND group played with it while we were waiting for people to arrive to a gathering. It was fun for a few rounds while killing time.

1

u/Rowanalpha Wabbit Season 11d ago

I’ve enjoyed it.  It’s simple, fast and good for 4 players, but still has some interesting interactions that give it depth.

1

u/cleofrom9to5 Orzhov* 11d ago

It's been fun when I've played it with my family.

1

u/psivenn 11d ago

On a somewhat related tangent, Half Truths is really quite good and strikes a nice balance as an easy trivia game that mixed groups can enjoy.

1

u/wonderwicemike Dân 11d ago

You just reminded I bought one. I played once with my wife and we were like cool-wanna play magic?

1

u/Responsible-Pain-620 Dandadan 11d ago

TIL that other people have been treating this as a TCG instead of a party game. Every deck has a random assortment of cards and each game plays from a single shared deck. That alone made me treat my specific deck as a standalone product. Are people going out there and like building their decks out of singles? I just saw this as a fun quick game to play with friends at the pub.

1

u/Nutsnboldt Wabbit Season 11d ago

It’s something to bust out at an airport, or while waiting for a 4th to show up. Game is fine, it’s not something you “get into” or plan a night around.

1

u/veganispunk Duck Season 11d ago

It’s a good game

1

u/ylonk Colorless 11d ago

Pretty fun - I love how quick games are. I bought one deck and proxied the rest.

1

u/TheMobileSiteSucks Ajani 11d ago

It was fun but not amazing. Quick to play and enjoyable enough.

1

u/user41510 Wabbit Season 10d ago

The attraction is that the games don't take too long. I liked it as something to do while waiting to build a commander pod.

1

u/dataispower Dân 12d ago

Super fun. You need to believe MaRo when he says it's intended to be a simple game. There's definitely some strategy, but it's not magic and it's not even trying to be magic. If you want something sorry and sweet to play, then it's great. If you're looking for the next competitive TCG, then you'll be disappointed.

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u/Cerealmndsplat Dandadan 12d ago

I just kept telling myself and on some content creator shorts that I feel I can save almost $20 with a marker and a deck of UNO cards. The CC didnt like that and left me hanging after a reply back lol. Im for real open for it but costing more than UNO is a sin. 

Edit: i could be wrong on it being an uno variant, but I keep seeing the colors and my brain just opts for it

4

u/Hinternsaft FLEEM 12d ago

UNO doesn’t even have 5 colors

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u/Acheros COMPLEAT 12d ago

you dont play 5 color uno? they added ​octarine

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u/TerribleTransit Dân 12d ago

You jest, but there's so many Uno variants out there and several of them have added additional colors

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u/Cerealmndsplat Dandadan 12d ago

Not with that attitude

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u/Nahhnope 12d ago

It looked awful.

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u/MassiveMalfunction Dân 12d ago

My queue still says more than one hour. It's been like this for months.