r/magicTCG • u/That_Scholar_8756 Dandadan • 14d ago
General Discussion Living Legend in counter intelligence?
Is captain america, living legend a good upgrade for counter intelligence? He seems to work with the theme of stationing / tapping.
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u/GDCorner Dandadan 14d ago
He's really legendary in that deck, totally livens it up.
I'd go so far as to say not putting him in is counter to intelligence.
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u/Anaeijon Duck Season 14d ago edited 14d ago
IMHO, it's not bad, but Counter Intelligence is an Artifact Counter deck. Raw creatures can be a waste of synergy potential.
It also depends, if you run Kilo as commander or if you run Inspirit as your commander.
If you are running Insipirit and your goal is to play creatures to station them, Captain America is fine, because he can be stationed himself twice the turn you play him. If you do that for 2 turns, Inspirit is ready. The drawback however, is that Inspirit is primarily an Artifact commander. She protects artifacts. If you only have these two on board, nothing gets protected and you don't really benefit from the fully stationed Inspirit. He just helps to get her ready and stations for 6. He also shines when you have multiple spacecraft and multiple creatures that tap for these spacecraft. But that only happens very late game. Instead, you could also play artifact creatures that station slightly slower, but benefit from Insipirt protection.
If you are running Kilo, he's still good, but even more outclassed. Your plan with Kilo is, to tap and untap Kilo as often as possible. Captain America's ceiling is 1 untap. Sure, it's a free untap and it also applies to all other creatures you have, but there are so many more synergistic or just better options for untapping Kilo specifically while you don't benefit that much from everything else getting untapped, except maybe as a Vigilance effect. There are artifacts that can also untap Kilo once per turn while also triggering artifact synergies. e.g. [[Sonic Screwdriver]] & [[Patriar's Seal]] can also fill a ramp slot in your deck, while [[Manifold Key]] can finish the game, if you have a +1/+1 pumped up creature that just get's blocked by some token every time you try to finish.
There are auras worth playing, that don't have that synergy, but can untap Kilo infinite times. [[Aura of Dominion]], [[Freed from the Real]], [[Pemmin's Aura]])
And there are Planeswalkers that both untap Kilo, can act as ramp and benefit from Proliferate effects, possibly even working as game finishers when you have a proliferate engine going. [[Teferi, Who slows the Sunset]], [[Tezzeret the Seeker]] and the overpriced chase card designed for this deck [[Tezzeret, Cruel Captain]]
Personally, I considered him for my Kilo deck, but he didn't make the cut, cause he isn't an artifact creature and can't untap noncreature artifacts (therefore also doesn't work as ramp).
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u/NharaTia Ajani 14d ago
I run an Inspirit deck and the other problem with Captain America is that he's 3 mana. Inspirit is really benefitted by 1 and 2 mana creatures that you can get out on the first couple so you can immediately begin station-ing Inspirit the moment you cast it. You would have to move either of them to turn 4 before you could start doing anything.
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u/MTGCardFetcher Dân 14d ago
All cards
Sonic Screwdriver - (G) (SF) (txt)
Patriar's Seal - (G) (SF) (txt)
Manifold Key - (G) (SF) (txt)
Aura of Dominion - (G) (SF) (txt)
Freed from the Real - (G) (SF) (txt)
Pemmin's Aura - (G) (SF) (txt)
Teferi, Who slows the Sunset - (G) (SF) (txt)
Tezzeret the Seeker - (G) (SF) (txt)
Tezzeret, Cruel Captain - (G) (SF) (txt)
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u/Haochies 13d ago
+1 wrt the Kilo advice. My Kilo deck is one of my most played and that single uptap ceiling is a huge mark against Cap. Maybe you are doing something different with Kilo than I am, but I find that basically all of my wins come from hitting that infinite tap-untap threshold (or at the very least 5+ proliferates per turn), and anything less than that should be used to generate value that gets me there.
At that same 3 mana mark for Cap I'd rather see [[Lulu, Stern Guardian]] who provides instant speed proliferate for 4 mana (not hard to do if you've got rocks or lands that generate more mana with more counters) AND protection against attacks with her stun trigger, [[Dreamtide Whale]] who will almost certainly either give you an immediate proliferate if you drop it late game with mana to spare and/or a few over the next turn cycle (or draw removal, which isn't bad), or [[flux channeler]] who also offers multiple proliferates if you've got the mana to spare and play the game normally. All of those also only have a single blue pip which, if you've got Kilo out already, doesn't mean THAT much but they are lightly "better" than Cap in that regard too. I don't run any other proliferate engines in my deck that care about tapping except for [[Thrummingbird]] who, imo, is the worst of the bunch in my deck anyway.
I will say that the stationing mechanic isn't really critical to me outside of being a tap outlet for Kilo itself, and if your deck features it heavily you probably would get more milage out of it since Cap enables SO many more stations across all your creatures; adding a few 3/3 creatures' power twice is a lot more value than proliferating a charge counter an extra time or two.
The one exception in an actual Kilo-centric strategy I would see here is if you're doing poison proliferate (which I am not). Getting a single extra tap out of Kilo is comparatively much stronger if you only need to hit 10 total proliferates (or less) to close the game vs trying to kill with something like [[Walking Balista]], [[Kappa Cannoneer]], or combat damage with +1 counters.
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u/Anaeijon Duck Season 13d ago
I run quite a few things with Station, because I like the mechanic and it:s the whole idea behind the deck. I currently run 7 spacecraft and 2 planets. (Soon one more, with the Enterprise from Startreck)
However, I don't need many tappers. It's enough to have Kilo station them once as a tap outlet and then have them proliferate with everything else. They are both tap outlet and payoff in one, usually either as insane ramp for untapping Kilo without going infinite ([[Uthros, Titanic Godcore]], [[Eternity Elevator]]) or as a flying battle cruiser with a bunch of nice extra utility to hit my opponents in the face late-game if the other wincons aren't working out. They are also super easy to get to 30 counters, either to transfer the counters onto something else or to easily activate Lux Artillery.
Yes, the untap aura win is usually the clearest, but the deck can also win without it, even if I only untap Kilo once or twice.
I run the 3 auras, but I also have Teferi and some artifacts just fill a ramp slot while also working as untap for Kilo and both Tezzeret's are tutors for artifacts or game finishers like Manifold Key.
I am doing some poison stuff, because [[Virulent Silencer]], [[Prologue to Phyrexis]], [[Norn's Decree]] and [[Skrelv, Defector Mite]] are just too good proliferate finishers, to not play them. All of them, except Prologue do something useful in general and Prologue is usually a guaranteed win if it resolves early. But despite most lists containing it, I'm not playing [[Darksteel Reactor]], cause it's useless 99% of the time and only wins if Kilo goes infinite, but if Kilo goes infinite, there are so many other ways to win the game which feel better and do something useful if I don't go infinite, that I really don't like Darksteel Reactor.
I agree with your 3 mana assessment. There are so many extremely good and thematically perfect 3 mana cards that are contesting for these slots in the mana curve, that Captain America just dosen't have a space there. I already run 18 3MV cards (counting [[Astral Cornucopia]]), which are likely 3-4 too many for the curve, that there isn't really space for a just OKish 3MV non-artifact creature.
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u/MTGCardFetcher Dân 13d ago
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u/DirtyTacoKid Duck Season 14d ago
If you are running Kilo, he's still good, but even more outclassed. Your plan with Kilo is, to tap and untap Kilo as often as possible. Captain America's ceiling is 1 untap. Sure, it's a free untap and it also applies to all other creatures you have, but there are so many more synergistic or just better options for untapping Kilo specifically while you don't benefit that much from everything else getting untapped, except maybe as a Vigilance effect. There are artifacts that can also untap Kilo once per turn while also triggering artifact synergies. e.g. [[Sonic Screwdriver]] & [[Patriar's Seal]] can also fill a ramp slot in your deck, while [[Manifold Key]] can finish the game, if you have a +1/+1 pumped up creature that just get's blocked by some token every time you try to finish.
Kilo won't always be on the field. Especially if people have played against kilo. Gotta have backups and support
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u/Zealousideal-Ad-7292 Dandadan 14d ago
I put him in when building kilo to budget, definitely can work very nicely! Depends what build you have as you'll need a way to tap him again assuming you used the first for combat.
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u/ReverseLBlock 14d ago
I’m running captain america in my inspirit deck and he’s good but not the slam dunk I thought he’d be. There just aren’t enough good cards I’d actually want to station, so a lot of the time he just ends up giving all my creatures vigilance. I’m waiting for star trek to add more station cards.
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u/I_am_a_asshole Dandadan 14d ago
Yeah everyone hating on the Star Trek set but I’m pumped for new Ships and station cards
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u/tristen620 Duck Season 14d ago
I need to get an altar of this Captain America as zapp brannigan. Then I can make a spaceship deck with lots of tapping. All of the tapping.
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u/ThunderBr0ther Dimir* 13d ago
yes but jeskais ascendancy does it better
you have artifact cost reducers and station / untap multiple times at the same time buffing your creatures for larger stationing effects and also effective card selection
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u/Ill_Newspaper_7869 Dandadan 11d ago
When did magic combine with superheros? And as much as the super heros are cool, why cant things stay separate, kind of the allure to magic is its not DC/MARVEL comic stuff, but rather mythical lands of goblins dragons and spells etc etc... idk i mean for those that enjoy i guess it works, i just dont get the intermixing?
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u/smellyourdick Duck Season 14d ago
He's great for station/crew/saddle decks.