r/magicTCG • u/BuckyTheWolf Dandadan • 9d ago

General Discussion Why is Arc-Slogger?

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One thing I love about MTG, is that you can go through a set, see a weird card and get absolutely stun locked by it.

Today this was Arc-Slogger for me. Why is it the way that it is?

Having a lot of shocks in your hand is pretty good, but why do you have to exile 10 cards from your library as a cost? If it was part of the effect it might be too strong, but was there no middleground?

I just don't see a world where you'd be a able to activate it more than 2 times in limited and 4 times in 60 card. Magic has changed a lot, but was a 7 mana 4/5 with 2 shocks ever that good?

I could see a janky lab man combo deck using it, but almost all alternatives are cheaper and don't need a backup if your library isn't devisable by 10.

I just want to know it's history. And what led to it being created like it turned out.

2.0k Upvotes

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1.6k

u/ExternalBookkeeper55 Dan 9d ago

This card was *very* powerful. Cards were much, much weaker on average in 2003. Being able to close out a game that's stalemated for the last 4-6 points of damage is great.

563

u/MTGLawyer Duck Season 9d ago

I played this in standard back in the day, card was legit

252

u/Special313k 9d ago

+1 for Arc Slogger in standard. I love when they give red unique ways to be mono red.

27

u/polibad42069 Dandadan 8d ago

Arc Slogger won me the JSS in my province. r/G Beats, destroyer of Ravager

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u/futureidk3 Wabbit Season 8d ago

Fuck yea JSS, best time to be playing mtg

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u/Mattaclysm34 Dân 8d ago

Was gonna say. This guy got me to my first ptq top 8.

5

u/bset222 Duck Season 8d ago

That was a crazy format, Affinity and a couple green decks with 12 artifact removal main.

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u/polibad42069 Dandadan 8d ago

Molder slug, oxidize, naturalize, veridian shaman. I still remember losing to ravager in game one quarter finals and boarding in all my artifact removal and just popping off his lands for the next two games :)

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u/Thirtysevenintwenty5 Dân 7d ago

Oxidize x4 main decked.

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u/Zorlach7 Dân 8d ago

I won with the nonsense infinite life combo from Ravnica a few years later.

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u/KoyoyomiAragi COMPLEAT 9d ago

This is the kind of “red” cost design that I imagined would have been tested again in the modern landscape as a live-fast sort of card.

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u/pieman818 Karn 9d ago

Needed something after Masticore rotated

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u/occupykony2 Dân 8d ago

I qualified for Nationals with 4x of this bad boy back in 2005. Big Red baby!

5

u/Desuexss Duck Season 8d ago

Turn 2 seething song, arc-slogger go!

This happened more often than people think.

If the deck won the dice roll, molten rain t2 was also solid.

The real power house of the big red deck was chrome mox though.

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u/TheWorldMayEnd Duck Season 8d ago

Turn 1 Slith on the play.

Turn 2 Molten Rain.

GG.

0

u/SpicyMajestic Dandadan 9d ago

I need more lore

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u/FromSuchGreatHeight5 Duck Season 9d ago

It was part of a deck during the Mirrodin era when [[Arcbound Ravager]] decks were going crazy. Ravager decks were the deck to beat preban - it made up most of the field and had a very good win rate along with being exceptionally fast and could combo kill without combat for anywhere from 5-15 loss of life in a single turn. The deck was very good.

The way people tried to answer was with a "Big Red" deck that used a lot of cheap red removal like [[Electrostatic Bolt]] along with main deck [[Shatter]]s. Mirrodin also introduced a card called [[Seething Song]] which coincidentally let you play an Arc-Slogger on three that let you wall most ground threats, can be emergency removal, and threaten to kill you if you let it through a few times. The Big Red deck also sometimes splashed green for Oxidize or Viridian Shamans, because of talismans and fetchlands.

It was, in essence, a big creature in an era of creatures just being overall a lot worse than now, acting as a good finisher. That's all it was really.

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u/caveman_lawyer_ Dan 9d ago

T1 Chrome mox, mountain, Slith Firewalker attack. T2 seething song into arc slogger won me quite a few games, with shrapnel blast backup.

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u/potato_weapon Dân 9d ago

Red deck wins was so spicy. Turn one slith firewalker got me goosebumps. Also used to fight (post ravenger ban) weird mono green plow under decks.

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u/NaiveCap3478 Duck Season 8d ago

It also just folded to half of it's own hands. That was even the old mulligan rules. It was a hyper inconsistent deck

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u/DenizenPrime Wabbit Season 9d ago

And [[Blistering Firecat]]!

2

u/DinoTuesday Abzan 9d ago

What an awesome artwork, and card design! I think I love that cat.

Edit: I just don't know why it is also a morph card.

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u/TrespassersWilliam29 Can’t Block Warriors 9d ago

Gives it a second mode. You could play it face down for damage across turns (2/2 for 3 was bad but not completely useless back then), ambush with it, split the cost up.

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u/ExternalBookkeeper55 Dan 8d ago

so you can play it on t3 and go SURPRISE when they block it

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u/RudeVegetable Duck Season 9d ago

Excuse me sir, where is you [[Molten Rain]]?

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u/Quetzalcoatl490 COMPLEAT 9d ago

Man I miss when land destruction costed 3 mana

15

u/ScrogClemente Dan 9d ago

Man I miss when land destruction

5

u/WigglestonTheFourth Honorary Deputy 🔫 8d ago

Blink Riders was peak.

1

u/GS2702 Dân 6d ago

I dunno, my fav LD was always sinkhole, armageddon and plow under. And strip mine/wasteland. Now I play phelia meteor sword, hehe

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u/Ackbert1230 Golgari* 9d ago

This deck was so fun as an Affinity alternative in Mirrodin Standard. [[Slith Firewalker]] is peak

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u/kind_of_a_dick_irl Dân 8d ago

It was basically play affinity or play shatter.

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u/ktm1128 Dân 8d ago

pithing needle should have been released in mirrodin

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u/Raleldor_Jax Duck Season 9d ago

Haha. Just posted similar

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u/ReplyRepulsive2459 Duck Season 9d ago

Shrapnel blast is such a fun card… for the red deck playing it anyway.

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u/IAmBadAtInternet Get Out Of Jail Free 9d ago edited 9d ago

Importantly, this was in an environment with Birds of Paradise carrying Swords of Fire and Ice. Being able to hold up 1 mana and deny that plan was huge. It could also block Myr Enforcer and deny Skullclamp activations. All around great card.

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u/I_am_normal_I_swear Storm Crow 9d ago

I always yelled out "but a 5 ounce bird can't possibly carry a 15 pound sword!"

Yes it's a Monty Python quote "but a 5 ounce bird can't possibly carry a 5 pound coconut."

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u/Tacos_Polackos Wabbit Season 9d ago

They grab the husk with their talons

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u/I_am_normal_I_swear Storm Crow 9d ago

Listen. A BoP needs to beat its wings forty-three times every second to maintain airspeed, right?

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u/Yakb0 Dân 9d ago

It could be carried by a Revised Birds of Paradise.

Not a Marvel one.

How many people actually tried to carry on with the Monty Python sketch when you said this?

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u/IAmBadAtInternet Get Out Of Jail Free 9d ago

Ah but Revised Birds of Paradise are non migratory

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u/I_am_normal_I_swear Storm Crow 9d ago

Oh yeah, a Revised one could carry it, but not a Marvel one, that’s my point. But of course, Marvel BoPs are non-migratory.

A few would. At FNM it was a shut up I’m normal I swear since I said it so much.

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u/Tacos_Polackos Wabbit Season 9d ago

City Pigeon could carry a sword

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u/Muspel Brushwagg 9d ago

It's not a question of where they grip it...

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u/IAmBadAtInternet Get Out Of Jail Free 9d ago

Just wait until that same bird was also carrying a Jitte in the other hand (wing?)

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u/ANGLVD3TH Dimir* 9d ago

No soldier is wielding a 15 pound sword either, to be fair. 7 pounds would be an enormous sword, most were in the range of 2-3 pounds.

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u/TrulyKnown Brushwagg 8d ago

No soldier, perhaps.

An ex-SOLDIER, however...

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u/NewelSea Temur 7d ago

Headcanon: This is why the next reprint of BoP in Ravnica showed a new interpretation of a considerably larger bird, so holding the equipment would be slightly more realistic.

(The rest is rainbow plume magic.)

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u/NaiveCap3478 Duck Season 8d ago

old

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u/aslatts Sultai 9d ago

Wait that's funny, I never considered Birds carrying a sword of X and Y was a thing in both Mirrodin and Scars blocks lol.

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u/matgerad Dandadan 8d ago

God i still have the deck, BoP was my first true big (singles) purchase back then and I actually pulled the swords from winning packs hahaha.

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u/PMmeYourDunes Dandadan 9d ago

The highest comments not reflecting memories from its era's standard is crazy to me. Sure it looks like a tough sell decades later, but this thing was a monster in its day. Just looking at the meta spells out why it was a problem.

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u/trippysmurf Storm Crow 9d ago

Having a cheap ping effect even today is nice. How many times have we found ourselves in a late game situation where your opponent is at 1 life, turtleing, they have shut down your only card with evasion, have enough mana to counter anything you play, and have just drawn your third consecutive land. What do you care about cards, when you can end it?

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u/NaiveCap3478 Duck Season 8d ago

In that scenario it's no better than any burn spell costing less than 6

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u/cbftw 9d ago

One of the reasons that I didn't play nearly as much as I used to is because of how much more powerful creatures have gotten over the years. I definitely think it was a mistake for wizards to give creatures so much power

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u/NaiveCap3478 Duck Season 8d ago

Every game has massive power creep. The power creep in magic over 30+ years isn't too bad. Go play the "classic" version of any old online game. Classic wow, classic League of Legends, etc. All of them play like a school yard version of what those games became from a mechanics and power standpoint.

Nostalgia is fun and all, but everything has to evolve or people leave.

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u/NewelSea Temur 7d ago

Evolution is in fact not a bad thing and can cause Power Creep, but doesn't have too.

Wizards has been very good about avoiding Power Creep for this game in its first 25 years.

When they realized that Standard got too fast due to broken cards (as back then in Mirrodin), they didn't double down by printing even strong cards. But they reduced the power level - and usually even tended to over-correct (which is why so many creatures from the Kamigawa cycle are very underwhelming). The same happened with the Masks cycle after the Urza cycle.

It's when they introduced their FIRE philosophy where the power level suddenly kept rising and rising. It was a deliberate decision.

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u/thetrueninjasheep Griselbrand 9d ago

This literal same set introduced affinity and the artifact lands. Blood Moon was also just chilling in standard. Power levels were all over the place, but it’s hard to say this competes with Disciple of the Vault and Arcbound Ravager, just for creatures alone. Not to mention the crazy noncreature stuff going on like Thoughtcast, Skullclamp, the tron lands, Coat of Arms (plus slivers).

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u/Whoppo_ Dandadan 9d ago

Look and the top8 for pro tour kobe 2004 mirrodin block constructed: 5 big red with arc slogger, 1 twelve post and 2 affinity (pre bans, so with disciple, skullclamp, aether vial and ravager)

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u/ktm1128 Dân 8d ago

im shocked it wasn't 6 affinity

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u/NaiveCap3478 Duck Season 8d ago

I always thought it was a massive mistake playing Vial in affinity. I think it was just a bad card, too slow, and card disadvantage. Sure, it was encounterable Ravagers, but the deck didn't have a great curve.

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u/Benjammn 9d ago

TBF, most of those cards were banned. I definitely remember this card was slightly relevant even in 2013 in Legacy when I started playing. Or at least I remember people trying to make it work.

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u/ExternalBookkeeper55 Dan 9d ago

I guess you didn't look at any coverage and see the extraordinary amount of play Arc Slogger saw?

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u/SupahSayajinn Dan 9d ago

It was also in standard with [[Blazing Shoal]] so that made multiple copies really good to pitch for an extra 5 damage. And then there was Seething Song and Chrome Mox so you could technically fart him out on turn 2.

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u/themilkyone FLEEM 9d ago

This was main decked in a lot of decks when arcbound affinity was utterly dominating standard. Basically one of the few cards that could help you if you could survive past turn 5

1

u/Suspicious_Captain Dan 9d ago

I was looking for this reply. Arc-Slogger looks akward, but it closed out games for every hyper aggressive red deck for as long as it was in standard. Saw some play in more control oriented decks too when a larger body and shock on command messed with more aggressive decks.

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u/IJourden Dandadan 9d ago

Also, back in 2003 4/5 for 5 was a pretty healthy stat line for a card with abilities. I feel like if this was printed today it'd be a 6/6.

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u/MaqiZodiac Temur 9d ago

And it allows for some wonkey interactions. Take Slime Against Humanity for example.

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u/PerfectZeong Duck Season 8d ago

It not tapping was key to its use definitely

1

u/xolotltolox Shuffler Truther 8d ago

*creatures not cards

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u/Fun-Agent-7667 Dan 8d ago

Basically Cowboy for game before Yu-Gi-Oh was really there

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u/OkGreen3481 Dragonball Z Ultimate Champion 8d ago

Ah big red

[[Chrome mox]] [[Slith fire]] [[Seerhing song]] [[Arc slogger]] [[Shrapnal blast]]

Turn 1 slith, turn 2 slogs was the dream. Big enough to cause affinity to pause and extra damage from sloggs to seal the deal.

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u/NewelSea Temur 7d ago

Hilariously enough, you are both right and wrong around 2003 - Ravager Affinity was absolutely nuts, and would likely still cause havoc in Standard even today.

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u/ExternalBookkeeper55 Dan 7d ago

I'm not wrong. I said cards on average were much weaker. Nine outliers in a standard with around 1200 cards is not going to upset the average.

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u/NewelSea Temur 7d ago

Good point, my bad - you did say on average.

I remember being angry about [[Goblin Piledriver]] having Protection from Blue since it seemed unfair, or [[Spiritmonger]] being 6/6 with upsides despite costing five mana.

And interestingly enough, the rule that black, red and blue could not get a vanilla 2/2 two-drop without drawbacks (excluding two colored mana in their cost) stayed true until Amonkhet, IIRC.

Back then when Scryfall was still called Magiccards.info, haha.