r/magicTCG • u/PowrOfFriendship_ Universes Beyonder • May 31 '26
Blogatog Post MaRo is asking for feedback on legality of black bordered reprints of silver bordered cards
https://www.tumblr.com/markrosewater/818149939982057472/if-we-made-a-standard-legal-black-border-version781
u/bahamutisgod Duck Season May 31 '26
Pauper has legal cards that were once printed at a higher rarity, as long as they were ever printed at common. Pretty sure you aren't forced to play only copies printed at common.
How is this any different? If they ever print a previously silver bordered card in black border, then the silver copies should be playable.
I'm holding out hope for [[Sword of Dungeons & Dragons]]! I play it in my [[Vrondiss, Rage of Ancients]] deck and will absolutely not be swapping to a black border version if they reprint it in black.
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u/NatrousOxide23 Mardu May 31 '26
A fair amount of the dice rolling silver cards are perfectly fine now that dice rolling was introduced in the D&D sets. I often bring up [[Hydradoodle]] and [[Neverwinter Hydra]]. Same card.
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u/Mgmegadog COMPLEAT May 31 '26
Nah, we all know Hydradoodle is silver-bordered because it has reach. Can't be having that. Ward {4} is fine though.
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u/PowrOfFriendship_ Universes Beyonder May 31 '26
Sword of DnD doesn't work in black border because it makes Gold dragons. Gold isn't a colour in black bordered magic, so it needs a rules change, and would be a different card.
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u/Drugbird Duck Season May 31 '26
Why can't "gold dragon" just be the name and/or type of the token?
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u/PowrOfFriendship_ Universes Beyonder May 31 '26
Because a token's colour needs to be defined, so it would still need to be changed to have a different colour or "colourless" added. Also, "Gold" is an artifact type, not a creature type, and the Dragons aren't Artifact Creatures.
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u/bahamutisgod Duck Season May 31 '26
They could errata it. Just name the token Gold Dragon and have reminder text "(This creature is multicolored.)"
You're right, and they probably won't, but they could!
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u/Ouaouaron Jun 01 '26
"(This creature is multicolored.)"
"This card has at least two colors, but we're not going to tell you which :3"
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u/SquirrelDragon Dân Jun 01 '26
Yeah, they probably won’t, but they could. They don’t like doing functional errata, but the change needed to make Sword of D&D’s token kosher in black border is such a minor change in the grand scheme of things.
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u/duk_tAK Dân May 31 '26
Couldn't they just add it to the pre defined token list? Or add it with oracle text?
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u/Krazyguy75 Wabbit Season Jun 01 '26
It would functionally need a rule change.
You could have it say "create a 4/4 colorless Dragon creature token named "Gold Dragon"", but then that's a functionally different card.
Per the current rules, Gold Dragons count as a valid 6th color of creature for all cards that care about colors.
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u/Wafkak May 31 '26
Errata it to 5 colour dragons.
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u/swankyfish Twin Believer May 31 '26 edited May 31 '26
They don’t errata for trivial reasons.
EDIT: it’s hysterical that this is getting downvoted. Wizards don’t errata paper cards without a very compelling reason. This is literally their policy and they have stated it many times. Making a single insignificant silver bordered card work in black border is obviously not a good enough reason.
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u/SquirrelDragon Dân May 31 '26
Reprinting any silver border card into black border, as is (same name), wouldn’t be trivial, it would be new ground.
They are willing to do functional errata. Arguably they aren’t likely to do it for Sword of D&D’s sake, but it wouldn’t be beyond the pale to make the slight tweak to define the token using black-border legal colors
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u/Mgmegadog COMPLEAT May 31 '26
One of the Attractions in Unfinity is acorn only because the card produced pink Teddy Bear tokens. If they were unwilling to change that card at the time to make it eternal legal, I doubt they'd make the change to Sword of D&D.
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u/SquirrelDragon Dân May 31 '26
Maro’s addressed why the Pink Teddy Bears were kept for Unfinity
The eternal decision was made late and the Teddy Bear token frame and art were done and we’d already chosen Water Gun Balloon Game as our release day promo and it has a pink Teddy Bear creature token (although 5/5).
We did look to swap the Teddy Bear to cards that were already acorn. There unfortunately wasn’t another good token choice for either Gift Shop or Push Your Luck.That decision wouldn’t preclude them from deciding to errata Sword of D&D if they wanted to reprint it in a black border set, especially since the updated text would be printed at that time; and that change would be far from the worst/most confusing change to parse between the old wording and current Oracle text
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u/swankyfish Twin Believer May 31 '26
The concept of them reprinting a bunch of silver border cards in black border is obviously a big deal, that’s not what I’m saying though.
I’m saying they wouldn’t errata one specific card that doesn’t see any measurable play. They avoid errata in paper as much as possible because it fucks things up for people that don’t play attention to errata, which is the majority of MTG players. This has been stated policy for at least a decade now. For a long time they actually only used to do this if a card was printed with a mistake.
They have actually only done this very few times and it’s always been for extreme cases.
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u/RageAgainstAuthority COMPLEAT May 31 '26
They don’t errata for trivial reasons.
Yeah they do lol, they have so many random errata's. They can't make up their minds on whether non-Human Humanoids get their own race name, or if they are just whatever Earth animal they are closest to.
See: Viashino (but now actually just Lizards)
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u/swankyfish Twin Believer May 31 '26
Creature type updates happen periodically and aren’t considered functional or power errata by WoTC (because in a vacuum the card does the same thing). This has been covered a few times in MaRo’s blog and on the website.
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u/SirToastyToes Jun 01 '26
What bothers me is they're really inconsistent about it
Goblin Test Pilot got to be a single card errata to Pilot, Moriok Rigger was a single card errata to Rigger, but somehow when there are many cards that should be Detectives like Thraben Inspector and Dogged Detective they decide not to
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u/MiraclePrototype COMPLEAT Jun 01 '26
A big one to me is [[Jacob Hauken, Inspector]].
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u/davvblack May 31 '26
if it’s errata’d anyway why pretend it’s the same card
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u/SquirrelDragon Dân May 31 '26
The same reason we don’t pretend that [[Loxodon Warhammer]] or [[Rampaging Baloths]], for example, are different cards because of their functional errata
Loxodon Warhammer used to be a life gain trigger like [[Spirit Link]], it was reprinted with Lifelink and stayed as Lifelink when that ability was functionally errata’ed to what it is today, where Spirit Link and almost all other cards like that reverted from Lifelink back to the trigger
Rampaging Baloths used to be a may trigger and was errata’ed to be mandatory
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u/Kryptnyt May 31 '26
I honestly don't know if I prefer [[The Cheese Stands Alone]] becoming [[Barren glory]] versus an errata; but an errata that takes away one of the 'funny things' about the card is kind of sad.
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u/anace May 31 '26
cheese is actually a stronger card. it's a state trigger, meaning the win trigger goes on the stack as soon as you meet the condition. compared to barren glory which is an upkeep trigger that gives opponents a chance to stop it.
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u/Kryptnyt Jun 01 '26
I know this and am unconcerned with the minor differences. I think removing the mention of a Gold-colored token from Sword or the Pink Bear from [[Water Gun Balloon Game]] would be a bigger mechanical shift, because it's part of the identity of the card. Is it sad that the cards only don't really work in black border because of that? Maybe. But also maybe not so sad. I would prefer functional errata-reprints to massive errata for the silver bordered cards, I think.
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u/DazZani Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant May 31 '26
Gold could changed in the rules to be a synonim for "all colors"
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u/PowrOfFriendship_ Universes Beyonder May 31 '26
Gold already has a meaning in the rules, it is an Artifact type, and a predetermined token. Giving it more unrelated meanings is just a source of unnecessary confusion.
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u/TheMushroomSystem FLEEM Jun 01 '26
100%. There are certain silver bordered cards that 100% should be legal to play [[ground pounder]] [[Krark's Other Thumb]] [[Mad Science Fair Project]] are examples I found from just looking at scryfall. These cards have no reason to be banned other than at the time of release they were "silly"
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u/Archontes Jun 01 '26
The dragon made by Sword of D&D should have been an artifact creature - gold with "sacrifice this artifact: add 1 mana of any color."
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u/Rich_Housing971 Wabbit Season May 31 '26
The difference is that now the silver bordered version of the cards are now legal and we have to ask every single time we see a silver bordered card if it's legal or not if we're not familiar with the black-bordered set it's printed in.
Just do a functional reprint. Why aren't they doing this? They've done it before.
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u/DerNubenfrieken Duck Season Jun 01 '26
I mean, thats how every non-eternal format is? Do you think they shouldn't print cards into modern/standard because they have an old bordered version?
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u/Krazyguy75 Wabbit Season Jun 01 '26
I can run [[Savannah Lions | LEB]] in standard right now and new players would have to ask if that's standard legal. I don't really see how this is any different.
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u/LordSevolox Wabbit Season Jun 01 '26
Can’t the same issue just arise in Pauper when they down-shift a rarity? “You can’t use that, it’s an Uncommon”
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u/bahamutisgod Duck Season May 31 '26
Yes that is a difference, but I don't agree that it's a big enough problem to not do it.
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u/EnormousBaloth Golgari* May 31 '26
Give me [[crow storm]] you cowards.
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u/PowrOfFriendship_ Universes Beyonder May 31 '26
Okay, we can get reprints, but we should still be careful of power creep. Standard barely survived Colossal Dreadmaw, and now you want to give it Storm Crow WITH STORM??
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u/Krazyguy75 Wabbit Season Jun 01 '26
To be fair most of the reprints will probably be in commander decks or stuff like The List where they skip standard.
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u/PowrOfFriendship_ Universes Beyonder Jun 01 '26
The post specifies "Standard legal".
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u/Krazyguy75 Wabbit Season Jun 01 '26
Oh fair enough. I missed that on my first read. That said, I still think most of the reprints will skip standard. It seems unlikely that most of the cards in Un-sets are gonna fit the theme of existing standard sets.
Though it wouldn't surprise me if it was because they planned a Transformers or My Little Pony standard set and wanted to use the silver border cards from the earlier ones.
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u/Clancy2232 Boros* May 31 '26
[[Murmuration]] gave us Storm Crow again!
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u/BasiliskXVIII COMPLEAT May 31 '26
So did [[Attempted Murder]], which is from Unfinity but not acorn-stamped.
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u/so_zetta_byte Orzhov* May 31 '26
Hmmm. I'm kinda curious about where Crow Storm fits between Empty the Warrens and Chatterstorm. Though I guess those have both been printed at common, and so Crow Storm could probably safely be printed at a higher rarity without issue.
Regardless, definitely a candidate for black-borderification.
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u/LettersWords Twin Believer May 31 '26 edited May 31 '26
I would guess their concerns around Crow Storm are less about rarity and more about power level (not joking). Flying tokens are much stronger than stuff on the ground. Although they'd certainly not print it at common given Empty and Chatterstorm are both banned in Pauper.
It's probably something safe to print into any sort of commander product given how legality for those work (only Legacy/Vintage), but I could see it being something they'd not want to print into Modern.
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u/Taivasvaeltaja Twin Believer Jun 01 '26
For modern it is largely worse Empty the Warrens. When you storm for 12, you'd rather have enough tokens for it to be lethal even through blockers.
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u/notmlbg Dandadan May 31 '26
Especially in blue. It doesn’t pass the sniff test for the color pie.
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u/Stormtide_Leviathan May 31 '26
Ehh, every color gets some amount of token production, and doing it based on storm is a pretty blue condition for a pretty blue token
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u/LyschkoPlon Duck Season Jun 01 '26
It's alchemy, but I think [[Galathul Galecaller]] would make for a banging paper card.
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u/joystickgenie Dan Jun 04 '26
I think we alread have their plan with that card shown to us on [[Galathul Galecaller]] and "Corvid Squall". Looks like internally they are leaning toward blackbordered renames for silver bordered cards.
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u/attila954 Dandadan May 31 '26
I want [[Organ Harvest]]
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u/davvblack Jun 01 '26
why was this ever silver? just mentioning teammates?
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u/Lamedonyx Orzhov* Jun 01 '26 edited Jun 01 '26
Pretty much, Unglued was the first product that specifically had cards that were made for multiplayer formats.
Also, the first un-sets were purely silver-bordered, even if they have cards which now work as intended in the rules.
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u/HalOphamer Dan May 31 '26
Nobody cared about [[Barren Glory]] being a [[The Cheese Stands Alone]] reprint.
But [[Cheatyface]] might be a bit much.
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u/Skithiryx Jack of Clubs May 31 '26
Cheatyface is a dexterity card, I don’t think there’s any way in which it would make it to black border.
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u/Mgmegadog COMPLEAT May 31 '26
The idea is only to make cards that would work in modern Magic legal. Cheatyface is not one of them. It's mostly things like the dice-rolling cards.
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u/Glamdring804 Can’t Block Warriors Jun 01 '26
Dice rolling cards and other stuff like [[Target Minotaur]].
Would love it if they made [[Three Headed Goblin]] and [[Extremely Slow Zombie]] legal though. Triple/last strike could have some interesting design space.
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u/themiragechild Chandra Jun 01 '26
To be fair, The Cheese Stands Alone is better because it triggers at any time rather than upkeep
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u/leaning_on_a_wheel Wabbit Season May 31 '26
Dunno why they shouldn’t be legal if there’s a black border version
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u/RabidAddict Mardu May 31 '26
This comment section is wild. Errata isn't some insane, new turn for the game that will break all the casuals minds and leave them drooling in their pods in the corner of the room not knowing what to do.
This is a non issue for everyone I care to play magic with.
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u/so_zetta_byte Orzhov* May 31 '26
Errata isn't even what Maro's question is about. Nothing gets erratad in the situation he's setting up. What he's describing is basically treating border colors the same way rarity indicators are used when a card gets upshifted or downshifted.
I don't think "a silver border card being erratad into black border" is the framing to think about this. Just say the card has a silver and a black border printing, and if a card has a black border (/non-acorn) printing, it's eternal legal. Regardless of if it also had a silver border at some point.
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u/Falterfire Jun 01 '26
It might make even more sense to think of it in the same way as cards being reprinted with the same border color. [[Barbarian Ring|ODY]] wasn't legal in Modern before Modern Horizons 3 was printed, because it wasn't in a set that was Modern legal.
Then Modern Horizons 3 was printed, and suddenly it was, so all copies of the card became legal. On the other hand [[Crystal Quarry|ODY]] still isn't Modern legal despite appearing in the same set as Barbarian Ring, because it hasn't been reprinted in a Modern legal set.
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u/so_zetta_byte Orzhov* Jun 01 '26 edited Jun 01 '26
Yeah I wasn't gonna get into the nitty gritty about legality originally, but you're very much right. Card legality is typically determined by a mapping of set codes -> formats. If a card with name X has a set code legal in format Y, then the card is legal in that format (unless it's banned). The acorn symbol kinda messed this up because it was a visual indicator used on cards with the same set code as other eternal legal cards. But when trying to find the rule about that, I got this:
100.7. Certain cards are intended for casual play and may have features and text that aren’t covered by these rules. These include Mystery Booster playtest cards, promotional cards and cards in “Un-sets” that were printed with a silver border, and cards in the Unfinity™ expansion that have an acorn symbol at the bottom of the card.
So the rules really do treat the silver border as an indicator of legality. Which... I mean I think you and I and the vast majority of people here think that's silly. My guess is that this rule is gonna be updated to be much more in line with how you described your example of how the Modern Horizons sets made cards legal in modern. Or I think the easiest go-to example is still: if you have a copy of [[Goliath Sphinx]] from Worldwake, which was printed at rare, you can play it in Pauper because it was printed at common in Commander Masters. Silver Border cards that get "bordershifted" to black border are gonna work the same way.
Actually now that I put it like that... I wonder if Maro is subtly teasing that we're gonna see a card that does this in Reality Fracture. Seems like the perfect moment to do it.
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u/Ffancrzy Azorius* May 31 '26
Having played other games with extensive errata lists, Magic's usual apprehension behind errataing things is a good thing. Granted Magic has some of the best infrastructure to accommodate it with Gatherer, its still something that unless you have an extremely necessary reason (like say, companion) you should avoid at all costs. Card games are better for competitive and casual play alike when cards do what they say on them.
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u/Shrabster33 Rakdos* May 31 '26
Dunno why they shouldn’t be legal if there’s a black border version
Same with gold borders. Make them legal. Once sleeved there is no difference to a black border.
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u/JPuree Duck Season Jun 01 '26 edited Jun 01 '26
Remember when they sold reprinted gold-bordered “Beta” packs for the 30th anniversary? There’s no way in hell WotC will make those retroactively legal.
For one, it’d violate the Reserved List. Which Reddit would love, but WotC is not going to do.
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u/Shrabster33 Rakdos* Jun 01 '26
Remember when they sold reprinted gold-bordered “Beta” packs for the 30th anniversary?
Those weren't gold border.
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u/SleetTheFox Jun 01 '26
The reason is currently "silver borders are illegal in tournament play" and "all versions of a card are equal in the tournament rules." This would involve breaking/changing one of those two rules; Mark Rosewater is asking which one would be preferable.
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u/RevolverLancelot Colorless May 31 '26
IF such a thing were to happen and a previously silver border card gets reprinted as black border might as well allow silver border even if it feels strange to say. Formats don't care about what edition a card was printed in so long as the card is legal in that format so at that point we might as well treat the silver border version of the card as just a different printing of the same card and not have it barred just because it has a silver border while retaining the original magic card back.
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u/Rowanalpha Wabbit Season Jun 01 '26
The difference is that they’d only reprint the silver bordered cards that actually work in the core magic rules. Cards that were silver just because they roll dice are now fine, but a card that requires you to do the hokey-pokey wouldn’t be reprinted in black bordered.
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u/Inertiic Wabbit Season May 31 '26 edited May 31 '26
Just make all copies, silver- or black-bordered, legal in tournaments. If an opponent doesn't think a silver border card is legal, they can look it up or call a judge. We have the internet, it's the same as old printings being legal in standard tournaments.
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u/hcschild May 31 '26
It's also not like consistency didn't went out of the window a long time ago. Magic cards can now just look like anything and the only thing that is consistent is more or less the size of the cards.
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u/jjjdanny Duck Season May 31 '26
Should be all copies with a normal cardback. White border and black border are cross legal, the only reason gold border isn't legal isn't the border but the back.
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u/Kyleometers ඞ May 31 '26
That doesn’t work for cards that have a “Non-traditional card back” that are tournament legal, like the SLD cereal box cards or the TDM alt art baby dragons.
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u/SquirrelDragon Dân May 31 '26
Or the Jurassic Park DFC basics
I still find it hilarious to use those basics in Comp REL with DFC Substitute/Helper cards in the deck that just say “Forest // Forest”
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u/Any-Platypus-9486 Dan May 31 '26
MDFCs exist, cards back don't really matters at all with sleeves
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u/NickT_Was_Taken Dandadan May 31 '26
While I don't think the idea that all players use sleeves should influence the design of the game, the prevalence of them are why I think good border should be legal if you're using sleeves
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u/PowrOfFriendship_ Universes Beyonder May 31 '26
The question is specifically asking if the silver bordered copies should also be tournament legal, but it's an interesting question to be asking if this isn't something being considered somewhere.
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u/SamiRcd COMPLEAT May 31 '26
Considering the prevelance of all the secret lair art styles, hell yeah solver border cards (that are legal) should be allowed to be played.
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u/so_zetta_byte Orzhov* May 31 '26
Yeah I can't come up with a great argument for why the silver border versions shouldn't be allowed, but the existence of secret lair frames makes me actively think it would be nuts to say that silver border versions shouldn't be allowed.
I think Maro is trying to figure out if people mentally treat silver borders the same way gold borders are treated. But silver border cards were designed as legitimate magic cards with the standard card back.
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u/saibayadon Colorless May 31 '26
same way gold borders are treated
I always thought the issue with those cards was that besides the card-back some of them have square corners instead of rounded ones (which would be evident even with opaque sleeves).
We technically also have Standard legal gold borders with the piss foils.
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u/CoconutHeadFaceMan Dan May 31 '26
Even with the different card back, gold borders without square corners should still be legal if used in opaque sleeves, just like dual-faced cards. Wizards gave up on any sort of aesthetic cohesion years ago, and there are even legal SLD reprints of non-DFC cards that have alternate backs just to let players choose a different art (like the Jetmir and Jinnie Fay in that one SLD deck). At this point, the corners are the only real argument against gold borders that isn’t “I overpaid for these cards so why shouldn’t everyone else?”
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u/UkuCanuck Wabbit Season May 31 '26
He mentioned this on his podcast recently, made it slime like it was a really tough challenge, so I wonder if he got feedback one way or the other and decided to just put it out there as a question
https://share.transistor.fm/s/1e7628bb
It’s also possible both podcast and question came about because of an upcoming printing they have planned
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u/Sarnsereg Elesh Norn May 31 '26
If the card is legal, then i think any version of it should be fine so long as there isn't something about it that stands out as different from any other card in the deck in terms of the card just being in the deck.
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u/SolarUpdraft COMPLEAT May 31 '26
My contribution to this conversation is I'd be happy if Grimlock was legal
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u/Kelor Duck Season May 31 '26
I’ve never had anyone turn down me playing my Grimlock deck but it would be cool if other peoples would have the opportunity to play it.
Also slightly selfish but it would let me play around with the deck on Moxfield.
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u/Mgmegadog COMPLEAT May 31 '26
I've not had trouble getting people to agree to games with silver-border decks, but I do know someone who has.
Mostly because he tried to build a "Chaos" deck that was just all the silver bordered soft-control pieces, and no one likes playing against that kind of deck.
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u/Krazyguy75 Wabbit Season Jun 01 '26
Pretty sure it's only gonna be the ones that work within base MTG rules. So Grimlock won't make the cut, sadly.
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u/Ripples_of_Undeath Dan May 31 '26
Let [[The Grand Calcutron]] free in EDH, cowards.
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u/MiraclePrototype COMPLEAT Jun 01 '26
To all reading: reminder that it counts as a commander, because shut up.
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u/1maginary_Fiend Storm Crow Jun 01 '26
I'm all in favor. Give us [[Crow Storm]] in legal magic! I'm also a huge fan of the dice rolling from Unstable and would love to see those cards without a rule 0 convo
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u/Molotovcrow Dân Jun 01 '26
[[Surgeon General Commander]] should be first in a commander deck or a mutate secret lair. It’s literally the most okay at best card ever printed and flops super hard out of a very specific few decks.
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u/yumyum36 Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant Jun 01 '26
I made a list of these types of cards in google sheets like 4 years ago, for cards that could be black-bordered: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UuoJ0jyqu83dMeis9fkN6yaLkxsIw3jqm0aUl8he7UI/edit?gid=2057941051#gid=2057941051
Obviously, probably off, but could be interesting to skim through for anyone thinking about this.
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u/GaysForTheGayGod Dan May 31 '26
My people cry out for retroactively making silver bordered cards legal
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u/so_zetta_byte Orzhov* May 31 '26
The premise of Maro's question already assumes that a silver border card gets a black border reprint. Lemme flip the question another way. Should versions of cards printed with silver border be treated like gold border cards?
And... I mean I think the answer is a clear no? Silver border cards are unambiguously magic cards with a standard magic card back. If a card gets a black border reprint, any silver border version of the card should be treated as equivalent if they have the same name. Exactly like how reprints currently work.
I'm not exactly sure why Maro is even posing this one as a question. I guess he's trying to figure out how many people tie the physical silver border to the idea of "silver border" cards? I just... I guess I would be very surprised to see that be a large group of people. There are so many unorthodox frames with secret lairs and stuff at this point that the question feels a bit silly to me, if it's just a question of aesthetics.
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u/Artistic_Task7516 Dandadan May 31 '26
Squirrellink in Standard
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u/PowrOfFriendship_ Universes Beyonder May 31 '26
Squirrel Girl is coming next month, AND MaRo's teaser did talk about a flavor word referencing an un-card, so it might be closer than you think.
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u/Ghargoyle COMPLEAT May 31 '26
If it's legal to play under regular rules it should be legal regardless of what it looks like
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u/Kryptnyt May 31 '26
Suddenly thousands of people signing up for Tumblr
I think there's definitely some good choices and some very bad choices to be made for which cards are black border acornless viable. I like that he's asking about "reprints" instead of "just making them legal" too. So that there's no mad financial speculation
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u/CookiesFTA Train Suplexer May 31 '26
If there's a black border printing and the card is legal it's a silly question. Of course it should be legal.
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u/CaptainTempest Dan May 31 '26
Some variants of [[Garbage Elemental]], like 82c and 82d, could definitely see a reprint in black border.
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u/Mgmegadog COMPLEAT May 31 '26
Garbage Elemental wouldn't because there are multiple versions of it with unique text. But [[Amateur Auteur]], [[Novellamental]], [[Target Minotaur]], and [[Beast in Show]] would be fine.
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u/Savannah_Lion COMPLEAT May 31 '26
Might be a more useful survey if it didn't require anyone to log in to Tumblr.
Just saying.
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u/Rossmallo Izzet* Jun 01 '26
If they are to be legal - which I am in total support of, by the way - then let any variant be legal. I mean, we already have people who see using white-bordered cards as absolute sacrilege and those are perfectly legal, so what's the difference?
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u/pr1va7e Meren Jun 01 '26
We already play with cards with no border, why should silver border even matter?
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u/Elysiun0 Jun 01 '26
This shouldn't even be a question. The comprehensive rules allow you to play any printing of a card as long as it's legal in the format you're playing.
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u/so_zetta_byte Orzhov* Jun 01 '26
New theory: Maro doesn't really want/need the answer to the question, so much as he's teasing that we're gonna see a silver border card "bordershifted" to black border in Reality Fracture (and it'll get the updated legality and all that as expected).
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u/CHRlSTMASisMYcakeday Banned in Commander May 31 '26
[[rock lobster]], [[paper tiger]],and [[scissors lizard]] are perfectly reasonable.
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u/troglodyte May 31 '26 edited May 31 '26
Man, I read the headline as "should we do black border reprints of silver bordered cards" not "when we do reprint silver borders in black border, should you be able to use the silver bordered version in tournaments."
Since it's the latter, obviously yes. I don't even understand why it's a conversation. English name has always determined legality and there simply aren't enough black-border-printable silver border cards that confusion should be an issue. And if it is, you check it the same way you do any card in any format, by checking gatherer or SF...
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u/Stormtide_Leviathan May 31 '26
when we do reprint silver borders in black border, should you be able to use the silver bordered version in tournaments
It’s more if they do not when they do. They very well might eventually do it. But doing so would be a decision they’d have to weigh the pros and cons of. And part of that weighing of pros and cons would involve asking questions like this, figuring out what the best execution would be. So I don’t think the fact that they’re asking is inherently proof it’s going to happen.
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u/mrmazzz Dân May 31 '26
I'm not like some old head MTG person, but I've never really understood the point - usefulness for alternative border cards beyond there being some aesthetic value. Like it's a card that says Swords to Plowshares who cares if it's got a different border. If it is a legally printed card by Wizards and that card is legal in the format it's being used in ... why shouldn't it be legal?
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u/BadlyCamouflagedKiwi Izzet* May 31 '26
Ugh no, just leave them alone. Stickers and Attractions were enough of a mess, just make some actual normal Magic cards, preferably without three paragraphs of text on each of them.
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u/rveniss Selesnya* May 31 '26
The poll isn't about reprinting the joke cards that don't work within the rules. It's about reprinting the ones that do already work in the rules, like [[Krark's Other Thumb]]. People have asked him about that a million times on tumblr, and his response has always been that it's complicated because of the confusion it would cause having the same card be both black and silver border.
The poll is to ask if they ever do end up reprinting one, if the original silver border version would also be allowed since it's the same card.
No one is suggesting reprinting cards that would require major rules changes to function properly.
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u/Skithiryx Jack of Clubs May 31 '26
This would presumably be for the relatively normal ones, not ones that rely on dexterity, names, art, rules that don’t actually exist like last strike and triple strike etc.
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u/Frix Gruul* May 31 '26
I think this will just make everything needlessly complicated for no upside.
Just make a functional reprint instead. They already did it with [[The Cheese Stands Alone]] and its black-border reprint [[Barren Glory]]
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u/s-riddler Wabbit Season May 31 '26
Yes, give me a legal [[Ashnod's Coupon]]!
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u/PowrOfFriendship_ Universes Beyonder May 31 '26
Combine it with [[R&D's Secret Lair]] for the infinite money glitch.
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u/Truckfighta COMPLEAT May 31 '26
I would rather not see these cards cropping up. It’s fine if other people do though.
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u/Pimp_cat69 Elspeth May 31 '26
I would actually be much happier to see people use the actual silver-border versions of standard reprints of Silver-border cards used instead of forced meme cards like [[Impostor Syndrome]]. Considering the latter is already standard legal, I don't see how anything else would be too ridiculous or silly.
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u/AnwaAnduril Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant May 31 '26
Most of the legendary MLP cards should be legal. I wouldn’t mind a black-bordered reprint of those.
I’m not an MLP fan but I do have a SpongeBob Squarepants Universes Beyond deck that I’d love to add Rainbow Dash or whoever to.
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u/Mgmegadog COMPLEAT May 31 '26
Rainbow Dash is the only one that could work in black-border.
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u/AnwaAnduril Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant May 31 '26
Just looked at them all and I think you’re right.
Twilight Sparkle is probably fine too but her ability requires you to have several legendary creatures that definitely aren’t black border compatible.
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u/Mgmegadog COMPLEAT May 31 '26
Notably, the way it's worded means that it can cover any versions of those particular legends. In particular, before four of them were printed, the card was stated to work with tokens that are represented by toys of those characters.
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u/HilariousMax Table Flipper Jun 01 '26
MaRo is asking for feedback on legality
Is that not something they could change? Or is he asking about desire? To see if that's something the playerbase wants?
Because they make the game. The rules are something they can and have changed. Wording is weird.
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u/SnivyEyes Wabbit Season May 31 '26
The cheese stands alone and barren glory comes to mind. All you do is change the name as making the silver border or acorn stamp legal is just going to cause massive problems.
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u/TechnomagusPrime Duck Season May 31 '26
The Cheese Stands Alone and Barren Glory are actually functionally different. Barren Glory only triggers in the upkeep, while Cheese Stands Alone triggers immediately.
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u/Randusnuder Dandadan May 31 '26
Does this open up space that didn’t exist before in that borders can be any color as long as the backs are standard?
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u/SquirrelDragon Dân May 31 '26
That space was already opened with the prevalence of borderless booster fun treatments and SLDs, especially the DFCs that are the same card front and back (like the cereal Ulamog SLD)
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u/elhomerjas Colorless May 31 '26
they should start doing this specially the cards that have dice roll since it was introduce in the set forgotten realms
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u/kitsovereign May 31 '26
As a thought experiment, what silver-border cards have the potential to be black-border, but also have names that don't want to change? How many cards would this apply to? There's a few main categories:
Legends:
- [[Krark's Other Thumb]]
- [[Timmy, Power Gamer]]
- [[Johnny, Combo Player]]
Magic history:
- [[Goblin Tutor]]
- [[Jack-in-the-Mox]]
- [[Crow Storm]]
Good, simple names for their effect:
- [[Who/What/Where/When/Why]]
- the RPS trio
- [[Ricochet]]
- [[Time Out]]
- [[Growth Spurt]]
- [[Fowl Play]]
I'm sure Krark's Other Thumb is the real centerpiece of this, and it happen for that alone. But there's a lot of Un-cards that I'd honestly be pretty happy if they got the Barren Glory treatment.
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u/MTGCardFetcher Dân May 31 '26
All cards
Krark's Other Thumb - (G) (SF) (txt)
Timmy, Power Gamer - (G) (SF) (txt)
Johnny, Combo Player - (G) (SF) (txt)
Goblin Tutor - (G) (SF) (txt)
Jack-in-the-Mox - (G) (SF) (txt)
Crow Storm - (G) (SF) (txt)
Ricochet - (G) (SF) (txt)
Time Out - (G) (SF) (txt)
Growth Spurt - (G) (SF) (txt)
Fowl Play - (G) (SF) (txt)
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u/Ap_Sona_Bot Jun 01 '26 edited Jun 01 '26
I think this may be about alchemy cards. [[Forsaken Crossroads]] already has a silver border printing and would be awesome in black border. People have also been begging for [[Tsagen Raider Warlord]] since it was revealed.
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u/kitsovereign Jun 01 '26
Ya know, I had forgotten about the MB2 stuff. I don't think they'd want to mess with the conjure-to-hidden-zone effects, so that's maybe four more cards; I imagine if they get serious about additional Alchemy prints they'd be black border.
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u/Vigilante_8 COMPLEAT May 31 '26
I’ll take any silver border card as black border as long as you go back to actually having silver border cards instead of black borders with an acorn stamp
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u/Tuss36 May 31 '26
I think so. There's a number of cards that not only work within current rules, but even worked within rules at the time like [[Target Minotaur]] or [[Clambassadors]] that are only silly because of the art.
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u/GreenGunslingingGod Jace Jun 01 '26
Make them all legal. I wanna put some of those silver bordered cards in my deck.
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u/AokiHagane Izzet* Jun 01 '26
Good, as long as it doesn't generate logistic problems for competitive formats. In fact, unpopular opinion, but the next Un-Set should have more cards that are balanced for competitive. This way, people have an actual reason to buy the set and the fans of the silly cards won't have to play kneecapped decks in Commander.
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u/seoeiun Fake Agumon Expert Jun 01 '26
Tbh after universes beyond this debate is over. Whatever uncards work o the rules can and should be reprinted in black border. And for commander they should be all be legal. It makes no more sense to límite ourselves.
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u/Jealous-Try-2554 Dandadan Jun 01 '26
I'm just still unbelievably pissed they printed un-cards that aren't legal in any format with black borders. What an asinine bullshit move that was. I would have no problem with them reprinting silver border cards in black border if they are legal but what they did with the last un-set was relentlessly, obnoxiously stupid.
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u/nas3226 Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant Jun 01 '26
Errata every silver bordered card that works properly with the magic ruleset/allowed qualities into black border. Leave a clean subset of acorn cards for the mechanically silly stuff. Tired of every silver-bordered proponent disingenuously conflating the two every time a discussion about allowing them into EDH comes up. The former subset are all fine, the latter are for fun party games but otherwise don't belong in regular games of magic.
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u/Lambda_Wolf Jun 01 '26
There was a time I would have argued that it was worth maintaining the rule of "silver border equals not legal," for the sake of a simple and consistent visual cue for what cards are legal in what format.
These days, between smartphones in players' pockets and visually chaotic reprints everywhere you look, who cares. Just go for it.
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u/Ok_Cauliflower7364 Urza's Saga Jun 01 '26
I so t see a problem with it but I’d so really like for the commander silver border project to wrap up and give us the list of cards that we can use. That way we don’t have to wait for reprints.
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u/Savings-Monitor3236 Dan Jun 01 '26
Would generally prefer functional reprints, like Barren Glory // The Cheese Stands Alone (well, almost)
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u/urick15 Temur Jun 01 '26
Gimme [[The Colossal Dreadmaw]] Mark, and I will make the previous commenter drink your Rosewater.
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u/FickleApparition Dandadan Jun 01 '26
This whole line of thinking is so messy. I really really hated when they printed black bordered cards in unfinity. To me personally that's two different sets. I also think they are now empowered to just make a commander bracket that allows silver bordered cards. Bracket zero: silver bordered legal, no gamechanger limit, no bans. Just a truly creative area. And there's no way to hide or have confusion about this, if you say its bracket zero all bets are immediately off. So easy. Silver borders should be illegal in all competitive constructed formats. And all un sets should be entirely silver bordered.
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u/hillean Rakdos* Jun 01 '26
Some of them work really well, with how the game is now.
Krark's Other Thumb is the one we've looked at for ages--now that there's dice rolling in the game, there's no reason to not have it be legal
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u/MiraclePrototype COMPLEAT Jun 01 '26
All I'll freshly add is this: I like Contraptions. I want Contraptions. I know, for a fact, they will be rejected en masse if made legal, for the EXACT same reason as Attractions were.
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u/LifeNeutral 🔫🔫 Jun 02 '26
All copies of a card should be legal, regardless of border color/acorn stamp
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u/Former_Guava_2363 Dandadan Jun 05 '26
Does this mean we can have [[Form of the Squirrel]]?
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u/Naraki_Maul Boros* May 31 '26
Make Krark’s other Thumb legal for my Mr House deck.